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Thread: The return of the incandescent light bulb?

  1. #1

    The return of the incandescent light bulb?

    Ever since the EU restricted sales of traditional incandescent light bulbs, homeowners have complained about the shortcomings of their energy-efficient replacements.

    The clinical white beam of LEDs and frustrating time-delay of ‘green’ lighting has left many hankering after the instant, bright warm glow of traditional filament bulbs.

    But now scientists in the US believe they have come up with a solution which could see a reprieve for incandescent bulbs.

    Researchers at MIT have shown that by surrounding the filament with a special crystal structure in the glass they can bounce back the energy which is usually lost in heat, while still allowing the light through.

    They refer to the technique as ‘recycling light’ because the energy which would usually escape into the air is redirected back to the filament where it can create new light.

    "It recycles the energy that would otherwise be wasted," said Professor Marin Soljacic.

    Usually traditional light bulbs are only about five per cent efficient, with 95 per cent of the energy being lost to the atmosphere. In comparison LED or florescent bulbs manage around 14 per cent efficiency. But the scientists believe that the new bulb could reach efficiency levels of 40 per cent.

    And it shows colours far more naturally than modern energy-efficient bulbs. Traditional incandescent bulbs have a ‘colour rendering index’ rating of 100, because they match the hue of objects seen in natural daylight. However even ‘warm’ finish LED or florescent bulbs can only manage an index rating of 80 and most are far less.

    "This experimental device is a proof-of-concept, at the low end of performance that could be ultimately achieved by this approach," said principal research scientist Ivan Celanovic.

    "An important feature is that our demonstrated device achieves near-ideal rendering of colours.

    “That is precisely the reason why incandescent lights remained dominant for so long: their warm light has remained preferable to drab fluorescent lighting for decades.”

    Thomas Edison patented the first commercially viable incandescent light bulb more than 130 years ago so that "none but the extravagant" would ever "burn tallow candles.”

    It works by heating a thin tungsten wire to temperatures of around 2,700 degrees Celsius. That hot wire emits what is known as black body radiation, a very broad spectrum of light that provides a warm look and a faithful rendering of all colours in a scene.

    However most of the energy is wasted as heat which is why many countries have now phased out the inefficient technology. The UK government announced in 2007 that incandescent bulbs would be phased out by 2011 however many manufacturers still sell them, using a loophole which says they can be put in industrial buildings.

    The Energy Saving Trust calculates that typical living room usage of a 60-watt incandescent lightbulb over a year would cost £7.64. Using an equivalent energy efficient fluorescent or ‘CFL’ lightbulb would cost £1.53 per year, while an LED would cost just £1.27.

    But if the new bulbs live up to expectations they would cost under 50p a year to run and even improve health.

    Previously researchers have warned that the blue light emitted by modern bulbs could be stopping people from getting to sleep at night and campaigners have expressed concerns about the dangerous chemicals they contain.

    Prof Gang Chen, Head of the Department of Mechanical Engineering at MIT added: "The lighting potential of this technology is exciting.”

    The research was published in the journal Nature Nanotechnology.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...than-LEDs.html



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  3. #2
    The clinical white beam of LEDs and frustrating time-delay of ‘green’ lighting has left many hankering after the instant, bright warm glow of traditional filament bulbs.
    My entire house is LEDs and I have never had that problem. You just have to buy the right color temperature. In fact, the bulbs I have can display any color I want. They're great and they use about 85% less electricity than incandescents!

  4. #3
    That would be great. I'm so sick of fluorescent and low-wattage bulbs I can't stand it. People like to see.
    #NashvilleStrong

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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandemanian View Post
    My entire house is LEDs and I have never had that problem. You just have to buy the right color temperature. In fact, the bulbs I have can display any color I want. They're great and they use about 85% less electricity than incandescents!
    Not these ones, eduardo.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Not these ones
    The bulbs I have consume about 5 watts and produce about 600 lumens., or about 120 lumens per watt.

    A typical 60-watt incadencent produces 800 lumes or about 13 lumes per watt.

    That's about 90% less power consumed per lumen! That's also about 92% less power consumed per bulb!

    Taking into account that the bulbs I have consume about 0.3W even when off (because they're wifi connected) that brings down the average consumption to about 85% less than a typical incandescent bulb.

  7. #6
    GREAT!! I've grown to hate these energy efficient bulbs. I don't have anything against saving energy but the bulbs are just not as good as the old ones. Incandescent bulbs are cheap and they light up to full intensity very fast. The curly-cue bulbs have NEVER lasted the 5 years claimed. Not even close! I've had some of these crap bulbs last less than a year. I'm certain it's the heat destroying the electronics rather than any problem with the tubes. Now we get to my favorite bitch... The LED "replacement" bulb! I can't even put in words what a horrible bulb these are. I've tried over 20 of these crapcan bulbs (different manufacturers) and the life-span is AWFUL! In every case it's the electronics in the base of the bulb that fails. I've even taken these apart after they failed and bought new LED driver circuits on Ebay to rewire the LED's. The LED's light right back up but the electronics are all toasty looking when I rip them apart. LED's are known for being "cool" but that's not completely true. Yes, they do put out less heat but the high intensity versions get VERY hot. If you put these high-power replacement bulbs in a ceiling light fixture that does not have lots of air running though it you can count on replacing that EXPENSIVE bulb in less than a year...

    Now lets look at another LED pet peeve of mine... Automotive LED use. It's REALLY stupid to worry about putting "energy saving" lighting in an internal combustion engine car (electric car is a different story). Your alternator in your car puts out excessive amounts of electricity so there's absolutely no reason to try to save electrical energy in this kind of automobile. The BIGGEST argument against LED lighting in cars is the cost. These sexy looking headlights and taillights are going to cost you a fortune when they fail (and they will). I've already noticed an increase of LED light failures in cars under 5 years old. When your fancy looking LED taillight goes out you can expect to pay HUNDREDS of dollars for a fix instead of the good-old-days when all you needed was a 98 cent bulb...
    Last edited by ChristianAnarchist; 01-13-2016 at 01:23 PM.
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    The curly-cue bulbs have NEVER lasted the 5 years claimed. Not even close! I've had some of these crap bulbs last less than a year.
    CFL bulbs suck. The reason yours probably don't last very long is frequently turning them on/off reduces their life.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Now lets look at another LED pet peeve of mine... Automotive LED use. It's REALLY stupid to worry about putting "energy saving" lighting in an internal combustion engine car (electric car is a different story). Your alternator in your car puts out excessive amounts of electricity so there's absolutely no reason to try to save electrical energy in this kind of automobile.
    LEDs aren't put into cars to save energy. The main reasons they're used is because they're a lot smaller, giving designers the ability to form headlights in more stylish shapes. They're also great because they don't take time to get bright like halogen and xenon headlights. Also,since they have no filament they're more resistant to shock.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    The BIGGEST argument against LED lighting in cars is the cost. These sexy looking headlights and taillights are going to cost you a fortune when they fail (and they will). I've already noticed an increase of LED light failures in cars under 5 years old. When your fancy looking LED taillight goes out you can expect to pay HUNDREDS of dollars for a fix instead of the good-old-days when all you needed was a 98 cent bulb...
    Yeah, that's just not true. LED taillight bulbs aren't that much more expensive than regular bulbs. That's absolutely absurd to say you'd pay hundreds of dollars to change out your taillights.



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  11. #9
    Darn and I was really looking forward to smuggling the incandescents in from both Canada and Mexico.

  12. #10
    I'm very anti flourescent in my home because of the toxic substances that are emitted when they break.

    I've recently converted most of my home to LED. The one thing I'll say is there are $#@!ty LED bulbs and badass ones and the cost difference usually isn't the best indicator. $#@!ty LED's flicker like a strobe light; you won't notice it until its night time and your dog wags its tail. They all flicker but all at different rates. Some make me ill; just can't handle the incessant flash rate... so I ended up junking about a dozen $5 bulbs over it. Nonetheless... I'm really happy with what I have left. When the power is out and my generator is off I can still have lights on inverter and 12v feeding my panel for hours. They really can't be beat off grid... and at 10 bulbs to 1 electricity usage you lose all guilt about leaving lights on when you're on grid... so home isn't so dark.

    Now on the subject of auto LED... studies have shown that you're orders of magnitude more likely to get rear ended with LED tail lights. The "instant on" doesn't register as well with the human eye as does the slower to full bright incandescent.

    The one place where LED has been really awesome is monitors and flashlights. For monitors it has meant big energy savings over the first generation LCD flat screens. And for flashlights the lumen output per battery life is unbeatable.


    This new tech is really cool. Hopefully it doesn't have some noxious side effect.


    fwiw the "LG" LED bulbs are pretty nice; the "Tuwango" brand you can throw in the weeds. Whatever you buy don't go all in on one brand until you've lived with a sample bulb for a few weeks.
    Last edited by presence; 01-13-2016 at 05:37 PM.

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  13. #11
    I hate the "feel" of the CFLs. I bought 8 of the "best" LEDs out there and 4 of them died within a few months. Fortunately, they are under a 10-year warranty, so I haven't lost the money.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    GREAT!! I've grown to hate these energy efficient bulbs. I don't have anything against saving energy but the bulbs are just not as good as the old ones. Incandescent bulbs are cheap and they light up to full intensity very fast. The curly-cue bulbs have NEVER lasted the 5 years claimed. Not even close! I've had some of these crap bulbs last less than a year. I'm certain it's the heat destroying the electronics rather than any problem with the tubes. Now we get to my favorite bitch... The LED "replacement" bulb! I can't even put in words what a horrible bulb these are. I've tried over 20 of these crapcan bulbs (different manufacturers) and the life-span is AWFUL! In every case it's the electronics in the base of the bulb that fails. I've even taken these apart after they failed and bought new LED driver circuits on Ebay to rewire the LED's. The LED's light right back up but the electronics are all toasty looking when I rip them apart. LED's are known for being "cool" but that's not completely true. Yes, they do put out less heat but the high intensity versions get VERY hot. If you put these high-power replacement bulbs in a ceiling light fixture that does not have lots of air running though it you can count on replacing that EXPENSIVE bulb in less than a year...

    Now lets look at another LED pet peeve of mine... Automotive LED use. It's REALLY stupid to worry about putting "energy saving" lighting in an internal combustion engine car (electric car is a different story). Your alternator in your car puts out excessive amounts of electricity so there's absolutely no reason to try to save electrical energy in this kind of automobile. The BIGGEST argument against LED lighting in cars is the cost. These sexy looking headlights and taillights are going to cost you a fortune when they fail (and they will). I've already noticed an increase of LED light failures in cars under 5 years old. When your fancy looking LED taillight goes out you can expect to pay HUNDREDS of dollars for a fix instead of the good-old-days when all you needed was a 98 cent bulb...
    The more electricity used in your internal combustion car, the more fuel it takes to make that alternator turn and thus lowering the miles per gallon you will be able to get. Just because it's turning all the time, that doesn't mean it's free electricity. There is a load on the alternator that increases as electricity is needed.

  15. #13
    For what its worth, I bought several Chines(ge) led bulbs at Sams Club. The 40 and 60 natural light bulbs have been really nice so far.

    I'm only 6 months in, so we'll see how they do on the 25,000 hour life claim goes.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    For what its worth, I bought several Chines(ge) led bulbs at Sams Club. The 40 and 60 natural light bulbs have been really nice so far.

    I'm only 6 months in, so we'll see how they do on the 25,000 hour life claim goes.
    Considering your username, I take your advice seriously.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandemanian View Post
    Considering your username, I take your advice seriously.
    Lumens are my passion.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandemanian View Post
    LEDs aren't put into cars to save energy. The main reasons they're used is because they're a lot smaller, giving designers the ability to form headlights in more stylish shapes. They're also great because they don't take time to get bright like halogen and xenon headlights. Also,since they have no filament they're more resistant to shock.
    You are true about LED's being resistant to shock but here's the biggest killer of LED's in the automobile arena... Lead-less solder. If you notice many of the grid type LED lights have dead sections which are caused primarily by the lead-less solder causing a cold joint or a fracture at the point of contact with the board. This is an issue that usually shows itself after 3-5 years down the road.


    Yeah, that's just not true. LED taillight bulbs aren't that much more expensive than regular bulbs. That's absolutely absurd to say you'd pay hundreds of dollars to change out your taillights.
    Actually, I'm pretty sure it IS true. I sure can't claim to know how every manufacturer does it but I'm quite sure that most of these fancy tail-lights and cute curvy accent lighting is all soldered in place circuitry with driver circuits integral with the unit. Try to price one. I'm sure they are hundreds of dollars each...

    Here, I found this discussion about Lexus LED's...
    http://www.clublexus.com/forums/hs-2...led-burnt.html
    Last edited by ChristianAnarchist; 01-13-2016 at 10:55 PM.
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    The more electricity used in your internal combustion car, the more fuel it takes to make that alternator turn and thus lowering the miles per gallon you will be able to get. Just because it's turning all the time, that doesn't mean it's free electricity. There is a load on the alternator that increases as electricity is needed.
    Yeah, it's pretty close to FREE electricity. The amount of fuel you could possibly "save" by trying to cut electrical consumption on your internal combustion car would be in the teaspoons per tank. You wouldn't even be able to measure it...
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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    GREAT!! I've grown to hate these energy efficient bulbs. I don't have anything against saving energy but the bulbs are just not as good as the old ones. Incandescent bulbs are cheap and they light up to full intensity very fast. The curly-cue bulbs have NEVER lasted the 5 years claimed. Not even close! I've had some of these crap bulbs last less than a year. I'm certain it's the heat destroying the electronics rather than any problem with the tubes. Now we get to my favorite bitch... The LED "replacement" bulb! I can't even put in words what a horrible bulb these are. I've tried over 20 of these crapcan bulbs (different manufacturers) and the life-span is AWFUL! In every case it's the electronics in the base of the bulb that fails. I've even taken these apart after they failed and bought new LED driver circuits on Ebay to rewire the LED's. The LED's light right back up but the electronics are all toasty looking when I rip them apart. LED's are known for being "cool" but that's not completely true. Yes, they do put out less heat but the high intensity versions get VERY hot. If you put these high-power replacement bulbs in a ceiling light fixture that does not have lots of air running though it you can count on replacing that EXPENSIVE bulb in less than a year...

    Now lets look at another LED pet peeve of mine... Automotive LED use. It's REALLY stupid to worry about putting "energy saving" lighting in an internal combustion engine car (electric car is a different story). Your alternator in your car puts out excessive amounts of electricity so there's absolutely no reason to try to save electrical energy in this kind of automobile. The BIGGEST argument against LED lighting in cars is the cost. These sexy looking headlights and taillights are going to cost you a fortune when they fail (and they will). I've already noticed an increase of LED light failures in cars under 5 years old. When your fancy looking LED taillight goes out you can expect to pay HUNDREDS of dollars for a fix instead of the good-old-days when all you needed was a 98 cent bulb...
    Weird, I used to blow incandescents weekly. My oldest LED is 7+ years old (back when they were ~$50 a pop) and still going strong. I've got a whole house full of LED bulbs, still have "dirty" power that blows incandescents in a week, and I've not had a single LED bulb fail on me yet.

    What are you doing to those things?

  22. #19
    The bigger question is:

    Why are we putting up with a government that thinks it has the right to regulate such a thing as to what light bulbs we are allowed to have?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The bigger question is:

    Why are we putting up with a government that thinks it has the right to regulate such a thing as to what light bulbs we are allowed to have?
    I am thoroughly convinced that if not for government regulation the abominations known as CFL would never have seen the light of day.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    the "LG" LED bulbs are pretty nice; the "Tuwango" brand you can throw in the weeds.
    Have you any experience with "Cree"?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzu View Post
    Have you any experience with "Cree"?
    I have a couple of the $10 Cree bulbs from Home Depot that have been running for about 18 months without issue. Not as consistent as the more expensive GE ones, one of which I've been running near 7 years. Can't speak to longevity as I haven't been running them but a year and a half, but this house'll blow an incandescent in a week.

  26. #23
    In fact, I'm running about 5 of the Cree. I forgot that in the mud room I'm running 2 Cree 100 watt equivalent LEDs. About 4 weeks ago the lights in the mud room quit. I thought I had my first LED failure. Turns out my roommate threw the breaker. It didn't pop, the red indicator wasn't on, he threw the breaker for what reason I do not know. I turned the breaker back on and lights are still lit. Those are 18 months old and working just fine.

  27. #24
    The Cree factory is about 30 miles from my house, down in RTP.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Weird, I used to blow incandescents weekly. My oldest LED is 7+ years old (back when they were ~$50 a pop) and still going strong. I've got a whole house full of LED bulbs, still have "dirty" power that blows incandescents in a week, and I've not had a single LED bulb fail on me yet.

    What are you doing to those things?
    Ya, I guess I could ask you the same question about your incandesents... Here's one that has been run for over 100 years!
    http://www.centennialbulb.org/

    Anyway, I'm glad you are having such good luck with the LED's. I'm hoping that someday they will become that reliable for everyone. It's not that I hate LED's. I've just found they are not yet ready for prime time in some areas (such as replacements in house fixtures due to heat build up). I have lots of LED flashlights which I love because of battery life. LED Christmas lights and string accent lighting are also a great idea. They are just not the best solution for everything because heat kills the electronics so they don't work well in enclosed fixtures. Of course the manufacturers will not tell people this because then they won't sell as many.
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  30. #26
    Scientists Build a Better Incandescent Light Bulb… Six Years After Last US Factory Closes

    By Barbara Hollingsworth | April 22, 2016 | 10:50 AM EDT

    Protoytpe of a new energy efficient incandescent light bulb. (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)

    Six years after the last incandescent light bulb factory in the U.S. shut down due to strict new federal energy conservation standards, scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have come up with a technological breakthrough that could make incandescent bulbs twice as energy-efficient as their replacements.

    MIT researchers discovered that by wrapping the filament of an incandescent bulb with a “photonic crystal,” they could “recycle” the energy that was typically lost as heat to create more light.

    The new technique “makes a dramatic difference in how efficiently the system converts electricity into light,” said the research team led by MIT professors Marin Soljačić, John Joannopoulos and Gang Chen.

    Their results were published online in the January edition of the journal Nature Nanotechnology.

    “The heat just keeps bouncing back in toward the filament until it finally ends up as visible light,” MIT post-doctoral researcher Ognjen Ilic explained. “It reduces the energy that would otherwise be wasted.”

    In 2007, Congress passed the Energy Independence and Security Act, which set new energy conservation standards for lighting fixtures and other products by 2014 in order to reduce energy use and greenhouse gas emissions.

    The “new light bulb law”, as it was called, required “25 percent greater efficiency for household light bulbs that have traditionally used between 40 and 100 watts of electricity,” according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

    The stringent new standards effectively prohibited the manufacture of most ordinary incandescent light bulbs in the U.S. As a result, GE shuttered the last domestic incandescent light bulb factory in the nation in 2010, laying off 200 workers in Winchester, Virginia.

    Since then, incandescent bulbs have been largely replaced with more energy-efficient compact fluorescent lights (CFLs) and light-emitting diode (LED) lamps. In February, GE announced that due to poor sales, it would no longer make or sell CFLs – which contain mercury - in the U.S., and will focus on the more expensive, but longer lasting LEDs instead.

    But a new generation of incandescent bulbs could be twice as energy efficient as LEDs without the drawbacks, including higher initial cost and “inconsistent” white light.

    “Whereas the luminous efficiency of conventional incandescent lights is between 2 and 3 percent, that of fluorescents (including CFLs) is between 7 and 15 percent, and that of most commercial LEDs between 5 and 20 percent, the new two-stage incandescents could reach efficiencies as high as 40 percent,” according to a press release from MIT.

    The MIT researchers noted that the greater increase in energy efficiency also comes with “exceptional reproduction of colours and scalable power.”

    In February, Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) introduced the Energy Efficiency Free Market Act of 2016 (HR 4504), which would prohibit states and federal agencies from adopting “any requirement to comply with a standard for energy conservation or water efficiency with respect to a product.”

    “This legislation eliminates the overreaching arm of the federal government that continues to force itself into the household of the American consumer,” Burgess said. “When the market drives the standard, there’s no limit to how rapidly manufacturers can respond when consumers demand more efficient and better-made products.”

    According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), commercial and residential users in the U.S. used 412 billion kilowatthours of electricity for lighting in 2014. Lighting accounted for 15 percent of their total electricity use.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/barbara-...=n-light-bulbs
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  31. #27
    Can't wait to get them... When are they going to be available?
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

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  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzu View Post
    Have you any experience with "Cree"?
    just on DC; and I like them.

    DC LED is a totally different animal than AC LED. DC has ZERO flicker.


    since posting that last comment in January.... my view of LED in my home has gone down hill. They all $#@!ing flicker. I've changed out every bulb in the inside of my home with old fashioned incandescents. Electricity usage be damned.

    I use the LED's out in the garage and for my front lights still. But I can't deal with the flicker. Its headache inducing for me.

    I think the ideal would be running a PC power supply and sending 12v DC to all indoor lights then using 12V DC LED for indoor lighting.

    Conversion cost and time...

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

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    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
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  33. #29
    First they outlawed $1 dollar lightbulbs because they were too energy inefficient and replaced them with $100 lightbulbs.

    Next they will outlaw $100 lightbulbs because they are also not efficient enough and replace them with $1000 lightbulbs.

    I say $#@! it and go back to kerosene lamps or torches.
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  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    First they outlawed $1 dollar lightbulbs because they were too energy inefficient and replaced them with $100 lightbulbs.

    Next they will outlaw $100 lightbulbs because they are also not efficient enough and replace them with $1000 lightbulbs.

    I say $#@! it and go back to kerosene lamps or torches.
    Its ok, we'll have $100/hour minimum wage soon.

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