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Thread: To you Trump supporters

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Sounds like a recipe for societal success! And also for defeating Marx, of course.

    Thank you for you input!
    h_h, your debating techniques have truly reached unprecedented stud level. You may want to fix the following quote since you're having so much fun with creative editing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    No misquoting other members when debating, such as with "fixed it for you."
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989
    We ask you to be so good as to pass a law requiring the closing of all windows, dormers, skylights, inside and outside shutters, curtains, casements, bull's-eyes, deadlights, and blinds in short, all openings, holes, chinks, and fissures through which the light of the sun is wont to enter houses, to the detriment of the fair industries with which, we are proud to say, we have endowed the country, a country that cannot, without betraying ingratitude, abandon us today to so unequal a combat.



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  3. #62

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    Oh don't be tedious.

    I'm just expressing my love!
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  4. #63

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    By the way, if I were debating, you would know pretty clearly what position I was debating on behalf of.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  5. #64

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    The Wall
    Walls are not built to keep people out, they are built to keep people in such as prison walls. While the great wall of China may have temporarily deterred only the feeble minded robbers and raiders, it failed miserably as a defensive fortification. The builders of what is left of the Ming Dunasty wall were wiped out as the Manchu marched straight through. If there is a will, there is a way.
    President Trump wants to build a wall along the Mexican border. The total length of the continental border is 1,989 miles Land along the border cuts through cities, including San Ysidro, California, and El Paso, Texas, as well as rural farmland, desert, arroyos, steep mountains and wildlife reserves. Rural farmlands rely on the rivers for water. Environmental impacts on those private lands would be tremendous as the wall would have to be built on our side blocking off the flow of water while giving up half the river since the border runs right down the middle in many areas.
    Two-thirds of the land along the border is private or state-owned. Most of that land is in Texas, where much of the border does not already have fencing. The Trump administration would need to use eminent domain to acquire the remaining land needed. Attempts to acquire land would certainly face challenges in court. Historically, wall-related land cases have taken years to resolve, with costly settlements often resulting. Hundreds of property owners were sued just to build the existing chunks of wall. Some 400 relinquished properties ranging in size from a driveway to commercial lots and farms, costing the government at least $15 million in 2012. Some property owners, whose land would be caught between the wall and the Mexico border, are likely to file claims of lost property value, which could slow down any construction on a wall greatly impacting the final cost.
    Building the wall would be a tremendous feat whose budget would soon soar astronomically. Even with the repeal of the Davis Bacon Act that would enable the government to hire cheap Mexican labor (ironic to say the least), The costs would multiply multiply quickly. In the remote parts of the dessert, you would have to provide shelter, food and water for the laborers and craftsman since making a daily trip to these remote places would not be feasible. There are no hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc in much of the region.. Roads would have to be built in order to move the enormous amounts of materials, equipment and manpower needed. Portable power would have to be provided. Then, once you get through the vast dessert and reach the rugged mountainous regions, work would come to a screeching crawl. Steep cliffs, jagged terrain, deep washes, loose broken ground would have to be transformed into some kind of footing for such a wall. Even if you switched to fencing, it would still require much excavation for a secure structure. The roads needed to reach these remote places alone would cost as much as a wall or fence. You aren't going to drive concrete trucks through the mountains along donkey paths.Once you have traversed the mountains, there are still the rivers to contend with. And kind of wall would need a solid footing much like building a bridge. The logistics for this would monumental just as it were for the Chinese in the 7th century.
    Trump has claimed that Mexico will be paying for the wall. That is a lie. He would start the wall using our tax dollars and then impose an import tax (tariff) on goods coming in. An import tax may be paid initially by Mexican companies but in reality, they would not pay anything as this cost would be directly added to the price of their goods. That means WE would still be paying for it as the cost of everything we import would increase by the 20% Trump would tax them. In turn, Mexico would place an import tax on our exports creating a trade war that will ultimately cost each and every one of us in jobs and increased costs of the many goods we buy and sell with our neighbor.
    Walls will not keep them out as many of the immigrants that have come into this country did so legally through border check points or have flown into our airports.Once here, they simply did not return. Smugglers have dug many tunnels, most of which are still yet to be found while others will never be found. Ladders were designed to traverse walls. Sledge hammers and battery operated chipping hammers will ensure that the wall is merely a colossal monument built to satisfy small minded individuals with super enlarged egos.
    Trump has targeted the wrong people. it's our own fault that bad people want to come into this country. The poor Mexican worker comes here to survive and feed off a system that was designed to enable them. When H.W. Bush wrote NAFTA, it was enacted not only to open the borders for companies to move freely to exploit cheap labor and resources, it paved the way for a mass influx of desperate workers to artificially manipulate the wages for Americans. It wasn't about helping the people of a poor nation, it was all about breaking the backs of unions so companies could make triple profits more than what they were already making. Unfortunately, it didn't work as well as they planned since most of the companies that stayed were union. It was mostly non union companies that moved. Then G.W. Bush promised them amnesty and millions came flooding in.
    For all intense purposes, people love to be fed what they want to hear. They are nothing more than brainwashed sheep. If anyone had any real intentions of stopping the millions of illegal workers from taking our jobs, they would go after the employer and enforce our existing laws. If they can't find work, they wouldn't stay. This country hands out work visas like it's candy. Why, because the very same billionaires who tell you that illegals are stealing our jobs hire them to replace Americans who refuse to work for 3rd world wages, long hours and no benefits. The illegals are NOT taking our jobs that Americans refuse to do. That is a blatant lie. They are doing ANY and every job they can get hired for. The wall is a gimmick. It's a tool to get people to believe that they are doing something about this grave problem when in reality, they aren't doing anything at all to prevent companies from hiring them. I haven't heard one mention of eliminating the work Visa program either.
    Then there is the refugee problem we face. Our government has disrupted the middle east and turned it into a vast killing zone. We bomb them daily killing untold scores of woman and children targeting hospitals, schools and residential neighborhoods. We have created terrorists not just by our illegal interventionist ways, but by directly funding, arming and training groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda to serve our corporations in their never ending thirst for cheaper natural resources and regime change to mega corporate friendly interests. 911 did not happen as a result of us having too much freedoms...it was the direct result, blowback from our foreign policy created by a group of people who's sole desire is to control us along with the worlds currency and resources.
    Until we as Americans come to understand the reality of just what is really happening, this country will remain divided and conquered. Trump claims that we will win. That we will win so much that we will be begging to stop winning. If winning means that we continue to blame the wrong people for what has truly happened to this country as we enter into another cold war, building fake walls to satisfy fake conservatives, then winning means that we have already lost.
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewYorker View Post
    Why don't you simpletons realize that a wall, no matter how tall won't keep the illegal immigrants out?
    That's not the way to influence people toward your position.

    They will always find a way, so long as they have such good reasons to come here (healthcare, citizenship, etc)
    May I take it that you are familiar with the concept of "degree"?

    Stop giving them reasons to come here would be a lot quicker, easier, and cheaper. And then you wouldn't need any damn wall or border patrol at all.
    Now here we mostly agree. I'm not a fan of the wall. I see no benefit to it. Now, were a zombie apocalypse to descend upon us, WW Z-style, then perhaps a wall would be in order. I am not, however, in favor of building one on the slight chance that such an inevitability would come to pass. I am not a fan of turning America into a Sam's Club version of Berlin, ca. 1962. But the patrol is necessary. Welfare and the sort are not the only reasons people come here. There are bad actors out there who seek to hurt us. That is political reality. Even if we assume that we are 100% to blame for their desire to bring us harm, it does not follow that we ought to make it easy for them.

    In an ideal world there are no border patrols because there are no borders. This world is far from that, and therefore if we do not wish to come to violent ruin at the hands of enemies, earned or otherwise, we must maintain vigil against them. That is the sad and nauseating truth of the world which some have wrought for all.

    "The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies."
    -- H.L. Mencken

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