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Thread: Trump: Clinton, Obama 'created ISIS'

  1. #1



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  3. #2
    With explosive statement like this, I fear Trump could cruise to victory.

    That said , majority of voters in a poll here had similar view.


    In related, he had said this about Iraq in 2004 against popular GOP/Dem wisdom at the time:

    Trump tells Bush: 'You're fired'
    July 13, 2004 - 11:22AM
    Donald Trump.
    The billionaire host of NBC's The Apprentice has weighed in on the Bush administration's decision to invade Iraq, terming it a "brutal mistake"
    "Look, the war is a disaster. The war should not have been entered into," he told The Dallas Morning News while his fiancee, Melania Knauss, looked on.
    "To lose all of those thousands and thousands of people, on our side and their side. I mean, you have Iraqi kids, not only our soldiers, walking around with no legs, no arms, no faces. All for no reason. It is a disgrace."

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...484339401.html

  4. #3
    Well, he is right about that. Rand basically says the same thing during the debates. I really wish Rand had not attacked Trump... was the wrong move. They could have allied on certain issues.

  5. #4
    Is this good for us? The progressives will declare Trump insane and the subject a taboo.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    Well, he is right about that. Rand basically says the same thing during the debates. I really wish Rand had not attacked Trump... was the wrong move. They could have allied on certain issues.
    EM.

    I was thinking same thing.
    But Rand should be more vocal/blunt in his assertions like this; sometimes his philosophical arguments in debates may not grab the attention of GOP base and even pundits who are easily swayed by catchy one liners. Majority of our population is just not deep thinkers.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    EM.

    I was thinking same thing.
    But Rand should be more vocal/blunt in his assertions like this; sometimes his philosophical arguments in debates may not grab the attention of GOP base and even pundits who are easily swayed by catchy one liners. Majority of our population is just not deep thinkers.
    he has said the exact same thing in the same exact words i guarantee it that's why i posted it LOL he will be more bombastic and vague though this year, its in his new years resolution..

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    he has said the exact same thing in the same exact words i guarantee it that's why i posted it LOL he will be more bombastic and vague though this year, its in his new years resolution..
    Good, but chit !!!! Odds are he won't be in the next Fox Business debate. So I have no clue how he can't get the message out unless he starts saying nice things about Trump to get some air time.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    Good, but chit !!!! Odds are he won't be in the next Fox Business debate. So I have no clue how he can't get the message out unless he starts saying nice things about Trump to get some air time.
    He gets air time every time he attacks the front runners, I don't know where you guys were last time around but Ron NEVER got any MSM attention. Rand gets headlines and interviews almost every time he attacks other candidates. I think he would be completely ignored if he weren't firing on all cylinders right now, he had to burn and chainsaw the tax code just so he could get some press about his tax plan even though he has the most comprehensive tax plan.. Rand needs to not back down so it doesn't like like he doing these attacks as political gambit. I sure as hell hope he doesn't follow your guys' advice on this.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    He gets air time every time he attacks the front runners, I don't know where you guys were last time around but Ron NEVER got any MSM attention. Rand gets headlines and interviews almost every time he attacks other candidates. I think he would be completely ignored if he weren't firing on all cylinders right now, he had to burn and chainsaw the tax code just so he could get some press about his tax plan even though he has the most comprehensive tax plan.. Rand needs to not back down so it doesn't like like he doing these attacks as political gambit. I sure as hell hope he doesn't follow your guys' advice on this.
    I, like most Congress Critters, haven't read the 1.6 trillion Omni"bust" bill, but if there is anything in there that could be funding ISIS; possibly Rand needs to introduce legislation to repeal it.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    I, like most Congress Critters, haven't read the 1.6 trillion Omni"bust" bill, but if there is anything in there that could be funding ISIS; possibly Rand needs to introduce legislation to repeal it.
    Yep..last i read we are funding moderates again and the budget is even bigger this year.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    he has said the exact same thing in the same exact words i guarantee it that's why i posted it LOL
    He may have but I couldn't find a quote where Rand blamed Obama for ISIS.
    This is what I found in quick google:

    Rand Paul says GOP hawks 'created' ISIS
    http://nypost.com/2015/05/27/rand-pa...s-created-isis
    May 27, 2015 - WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul is blaming his own party for the rise of the Islamic State group. The freshman senator from Kentucky said Wednesday that the GOP’s foreign policy hawks “created these people.”. ... “ISIS exists and grew stronger because ...


    I'm no fan of dumb GOP Hawks (many of them probably would be SWCs) and they share the blame but it would be more accurate and politically more productive for Rand to blame Obama for rise of ISIS that started in Syria.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    He may have but I couldn't find a quote where Rand blamed Obama for ISIS.
    This is what I found in quick google:

    Rand Paul says GOP hawks 'created' ISIS
    http://nypost.com/2015/05/27/rand-pa...s-created-isis
    May 27, 2015 - WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul is blaming his own party for the rise of the Islamic State group. The freshman senator from Kentucky said Wednesday that the GOP’s foreign policy hawks “created these people.”. ... “ISIS exists and grew stronger because ...


    I'm no fan of dumb GOP Hawks (many of them probably would be SWCs) and they share the blame but it would be more accurate and politically more productive for Rand to blame Obama for rise of ISIS that started in Syria.
    Totally agree.
    Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession.
    ~ George Washington

  15. #13
    Well after way too much review Rand always says Radical Islam instead of ISIS. Who knows maybe Trump can sell Rand's foreign policy to Republicans better then Rand Paul can. if Rand could maybe somehow turn Trumps campaign into a messaging campaign and own it all. If he were to somehow flip this script on these Trump polls you would see a large GOP base that would support Rand's foreign policy that could actually win in the general election.



  16. #14

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Team work, racist McCain is another puppet of same masters.

    McCain part of A-list Obama-led delegation going to Saudi Arabia
    www.bizjournals.com/.../mccain-part-of-a...
    Jan 27, 2015 - U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., is part of an A-list American delegation headed to Saudi Arabia for the funeral of King Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz.

    McCain: Obama is not an Arab, he is a decent family man

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRq6Y4NmB6U

  18. #16
    Rand backtracked his comments: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ran.../02/id/648252/

    If Bush didn't invade Iraq there would be no ISIS.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Rand backtracked his comments: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ran.../02/id/648252/

    If Bush didn't invade Iraq there would be no ISIS.

    Why did he back track? that was a huge mistake, kissing Bushes and the Saudis asses is not what would help Rand. This new line doesn't make any sense.


    "The ultimate people who are responsible for terrorism are obviously the terrorists," which he says means that ISIS is ultimately responsible for the "mayhem, the murders, the brutality, the beheadings."

    The War Hawks were responsible for the Crisis why the backtrack?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Why did he back track? that was a huge mistake, kissing Bushes and the Saudis asses is not what would help Rand. This new line doesn't make any sense.





    The War Hawks were responsible for the Crisis why the backtrack?
    I guess because he doesn't want to ruffle feathers. He sought to blend in with the Radical Islam rhetoric and opposition to the Iran deal. He got his wish. I think he was asked in a debate about it and he backtracked there if I remember correctly. I think he performed seppuku to fit in.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Well after way too much review Rand always says Radical Islam instead of ISIS. Who knows maybe Trump can sell Rand's foreign policy to Republicans better then Rand Paul can. if Rand could maybe somehow turn Trumps campaign into a messaging campaign and own it all. If he were to somehow flip this script on these Trump polls you would see a large GOP base that would support Rand's foreign policy that could actually win in the general election.


    By backtracking on ISIS, Rand helped seal his single digit status. The whole framework of the debate is war hawk heaven ("there's an evil radical irrational group out there, they can't be reasoned with, they just want to kill us, they could be anywhere, so we have to fight them forever, everywhere on earth, until we win"). Rand can't get through until he short-circuits this "threat-threat-threat" narrative, as it is the foundation justifying ongoing, unending, unlimited militarism and surveillance. With 800,000 dead civilians on the Mideast side after 15 years of war, who actually has been threatened more?

    It's all about keeping the US enmeshed in war and empire, and justifying the above civilian body count. Pointing out that the US/West created ISIS cuts through this scam like butter, as it points out there IS a scam going on, and that there is a rational covert op basis for their actions, not craziness. The beheadings are done for their manipulative effect, not out of hateful insanity (obviously the US establishment only care about them for their pro-war usefulness, as they have not been upset about the Saudi government performing mass executions by beheading). ISIS, like Al Qaeda before it, is a cynical invention of moderate, secular intelligence, not radical religion. Sen Gillibrand has admitted who created ISIS, and Putin has pointed out that most of the ISIS fighters are simply paid mercenaries, in this amazing monologue:





    For further background reading:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isi...xposed/5436019

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-cont...-version11.pdf

    http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11/...rld-order.html

    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 01-05-2016 at 01:19 PM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  23. #20
    Trump is the next best at foreign policy after Rand, if it weren't for hyperbolic nonsense he'd be better since he wants a policy of engagement with Russia whereas almost everyone else wants war. Rand is too worried about being electable and not about being right.

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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Was this ever confirmed?
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  26. #23
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    I am sorry, but I need to ask this question - is there a brain between these ears?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Rand backtracked his comments: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ran.../02/id/648252/

    If Bush didn't invade Iraq there would be no ISIS.
    I don't think you get quite how direct the connection between the US government and the creation of ISIS is.

    The USG trained them, funded them, armed them. Its leadership came from a US prison camp, no doubt recruited there for the purpose. If you could turn over ISIS and read the label on the bottom, it would say "Made in Langley, Virginia".

    Part of the Benghazi scandal is what Stevens got killed for... running weapons from Libya into Syria to feed ISIS (and probably for knowing too much).

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Is this good for us? The progressives will declare Trump insane and the subject a taboo.
    Previously, progressives and Republicans would declare the position insane and the subject a taboo. Our view is now mainstream in at least one of the parties, and if Bernie can knock off Hillary it would have strong influence in both parties. So yes, this is huge for us. With Trump as the nominee, Liberty Candidates can attack the neocons with impunity and have political cover for any accusations of being "weak" or "anti-American". We must take full advantage of this opportunity.

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  33. #29
    Funny Trump was supporting the Iraq and Libyan war when being against them mattered. He has no room to call the out what he supported until it went wrong.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    Funny Trump was supporting the Iraq and Libyan war when being against them mattered. He has no room to call the out what he supported until it went wrong.
    He only stopped supporting them because they didn't go far enough. If you listen to him talk about his foreign policy outside of his scripted talking points it paints a scary picture. He was for Iraq and Libya because he wanted us to take over their oil and stay there indefinitely if needed.

    Trump only started saying he wasn't for Iraq when people started talking about exit strategies. He says America doesn't use its nukes or torture enough. He said in his own words that he is the most militaristic person, and in 2011 Bill Oreilly said his foreign policy was closest to attila the hun.. (https://youtu.be/hZxD_RFvXpA?t=22m26s)

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