Libertarian voting for Bernie Sanders in primary

[Rad]

Hello, Unregistered, meet Antiwar.com: http://original.antiwar.com/chris_er...e-empires-pie/

[unknown]

You cant possibly support Sanders if you believe in freedom.

[RJ Liberty]

OP here. Rad, I know Antiwar dt cm. I remember the ACLU case with the $#@!ing FBI monitoring the owners of the website. That was complete government overreach, as usual.


But that's a great link. It clearly states that, contrary to what some people here on Liberty Forest have stated, Sanders voted against both wars in Iraq. He voted to fund them, meaning our "boots on the ground" (who are soldiers, not shoes) received appropriate protection. It's not the fault of the soldiers that the War Hawks (Bush, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Cheney, Rumsfeld, McCain, Obama, etc) go to war. I'd want the same protection for my own children.


From the article: "It’s true that Bernie is probably better than George W. Bush, Barack Obama or any current presidential candidate on issues of foreign policy" Wow. Better than any current presidential candidate? Even better than Rand? Quite an endorsement from a Libertarian website!




Last night, Rand came in in fifth place in the Iowa Caucuses, and has won one delegate in the Iowa Republican Caucus. Sanders just won 21+ in the Democratic Caucus. It is more clear than ever that Rand cannot win.


After last night, Sanders can win, and he will work on at least some of the following: repealing the NDAA, removing the "Patriot Act", ending federal prohibition on weed and leaving marijuana legalization to the states, breaking up the banks that are "too big to fail", removing NAFTA and/or derailing CAFTA, closing for-profit prisons, attempting to reform our country's broken criminal justice system, ending warrantless wiretapping, possibly auditing the Fed (yes, I know the original bill he passed was completely toothless), and, possibly, ending some of the ridiculous endless wars: the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs", the War on XYZ. He doesn't need to be successful with all of these proposals for me to consider voting for him, at least in the primaries. I'd be happy with any five from the above.


I'll possibly vote for Johnson again in the general. Not sure yet.

[osan]

You cant possibly support Sanders if you believe in freedom.

Sure he can. To quote The Tick:

Isn't sanity really just a one trick pony, anyway?

I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking!

But when you're good and crazy…ooh hoo hoo hoo…the sky's the limit!

'Nuff said.

[Occam's Banana]

You cant possibly support Sanders if you believe in freedom.

Sure he can. To quote The Tick:

Isn't sanity really just a one trick pony, anyway?

I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking!

But when you're good and crazy…ooh hoo hoo hoo…the sky's the limit!

'Nuff said.

Let's just hope Sanders never gets the chance to spread his warm, buttery justice over the buns of the nation ...

[LittleLightShining]

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

[osan]

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

This makes as much sense as two monkeys humping a football. The reasoning here is reminiscent of the adage that basically says that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Sure, until he turns around and slits your throat in your sleep.

Honestly, I don't give a tinker's damn who wins. It is of small consequence to the grander political scheme at play here. Anyone who thinks that the overarching political agenda will be stopped due to OUR choices at the polls is smoking way too many banana peels.

Vote for Obama if it makes you happy. There is a juggernaut in motion and it isn't amenable to braking actions as they exist in normal contexts.

The choice will be upon us one day to fight or fold. Anyone believing otherwise is fooling themselves, methinks.

[erowe1]

I put the operative words of your post in bold.

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

I have better things to do.

[Todd]

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

Just can't do it. Can't support a guy who's main calling is for "super duper infused" legalized theft.

Good to see you around again.....

[RJ Liberty]

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

Yep. They're polar opposites on many issues, but there are some overlapping interests as well. I don't know that I'll vote for Sanders in the general election (if he makes it that far), because I'm still thinking about voting for Johnson in the general, but I won't vote for Clinton 2, Bush 3, Cruz, Trump, Fiorina...

[LittleLightShining]

I have better things to do.

Me, too.

Just can't do it. Can't support a guy who's main calling is for "super duper infused" legalized theft.

Good to see you around again.....

Thanks

I don't know if it's really all that different. The word "socialist" is as polarizing as the word "anarchist." We already have income tax, social security, medicare, medicaid... they are broken and breaking the people. Can Bernie fix it? I don't know. Is he ideal? Millions of fiscally conservative, creative, productive young people think so. (Solid demographic, very libertarian even if they don't call themselves that.)

Yep. They're polar opposites on many issues, but there are some overlapping interests as well. I don't know that I'll vote for Sanders in the general election (if he makes it that far), because I'm still thinking about voting for Johnson in the general, but I won't vote for Clinton 2, Bush 3, Cruz, Trump, Fiorina...

I won't tell you who to vote for or even to vote, RJ, but the overlap is significant enough for me. I've been in Vermont for 20 years. He's stood up for Vermonters and I think he does a good job representing his constituents. For the most part I think he's sincere. He's no Ron Paul but he's stood alongside him enough times for me to consider his wider vision and give it a chance. Some things are going to happen no matter who is president. I think he would be better than anyone else out there right now.

[Rad]

OP here. Rad, I know Antiwar dt cm. I remember the ACLU case with the $#@!ing FBI monitoring the owners of the website. That was complete government overreach, as usual.


But that's a great link. It clearly states that, contrary to what some people here on Liberty Forest have stated, Sanders voted against both wars in Iraq. He voted to fund them, meaning our "boots on the ground" (who are soldiers, not shoes) received appropriate protection. It's not the fault of the soldiers that the War Hawks (Bush, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Cheney, Rumsfeld, McCain, Obama, etc) go to war. I'd want the same protection for my own children.


From the article: "It’s true that Bernie is probably better than George W. Bush, Barack Obama or any current presidential candidate on issues of foreign policy" Wow. Better than any current presidential candidate? Even better than Rand? Quite an endorsement from a Libertarian website!




Last night, Rand came in in fifth place in the Iowa Caucuses, and has won one delegate in the Iowa Republican Caucus. Sanders just won 21+ in the Democratic Caucus. It is more clear than ever that Rand cannot win.


After last night, Sanders can win, and he will work on at least some of the following: repealing the NDAA, removing the "Patriot Act", ending federal prohibition on weed and leaving marijuana legalization to the states, breaking up the banks that are "too big to fail", removing NAFTA and/or derailing CAFTA, closing for-profit prisons, attempting to reform our country's broken criminal justice system, ending warrantless wiretapping, possibly auditing the Fed (yes, I know the original bill he passed was completely toothless), and, possibly, ending some of the ridiculous endless wars: the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs", the War on XYZ. He doesn't need to be successful with all of these proposals for me to consider voting for him, at least in the primaries. I'd be happy with any five from the above.


I'll possibly vote for Johnson again in the general. Not sure yet.

Sanders is better than the rest now. Hillary needs to be denied her coronation!

[Weston White]

The establishment will place whoever they want into public office by manipulating the polls and manipulating voters, and the courts will aid in covering up the conspiracy.

[angelatc]

To the OP: $#@! off.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm fully in support of Bernie Sanders. I will vote for him. Anyone who ever uttered "End the Fed!" or put any energy whatsoever toward an audit and has any energy left for this sh*t should be supporting Bernie now that Rand is out, and using this opportunity to connect with Bernie supporters where we (Ron Paul supporters) overlap.

You live in Vermont, right?

[LittleLightShining]

You live in Vermont, right?

Yep.

[LibertyEagle]

I don't know if it's really all that different. The word "socialist" is as polarizing as the word "anarchist." We already have income tax, social security, medicare, medicaid... they are broken and breaking the people. Can Bernie fix it? I don't know. Is he ideal? Millions of fiscally conservative, creative, productive young people think so. (Solid demographic, very libertarian even if they don't call themselves that.)

There is nothing fiscally-conservative about the Bern. He wants to tax everyone into oblivion and expand the size and scope of the federal government.

I won't tell you who to vote for or even to vote, RJ, but the overlap is significant enough for me. I've been in Vermont for 20 years. He's stood up for Vermonters and I think he does a good job representing his constituents. For the most part I think he's sincere. He's no Ron Paul but he's stood alongside him enough times for me to consider his wider vision and give it a chance. Some things are going to happen no matter who is president. I think he would be better than anyone else out there right now.

Beyond possibly not wanting to start more wars, I see no overlap.

Bernie is a Communist. A well-meaning Communist, probably. But, still a Commie. His hero is Fidel Castro.

[LittleLightShining]

Have a super-awesome day, LE

[pcosmar]

There is nothing fiscally-conservative about the Bern. He wants to tax everyone into oblivion and expand the size and scope of the federal government.


Beyond possibly not wanting to start more wars, I see no overlap.

Bernie is a Communist. A well-meaning Communist, probably. But, still a Commie. His hero is Fidel Castro.

Castro was never a Communist. He was an opportunist. He used US help and rhetoric when he got US aid to overthrow the country.

then he got Russian aid when the US turned on him. He became "Commie"

He is quite simply an authoritarian dictator. Really does not matter what drivel he spews.
Cuba is a socialist state. could be a nice vacation spot for socialists from all over the world.

Like New York.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Thanks

I don't know if it's really all that different. The word "socialist" is as polarizing as the word "anarchist." We already have income tax, social security, medicare, medicaid... they are broken and breaking the people. Can Bernie fix it? I don't know. Is he ideal? Millions of fiscally conservative, creative, productive young people think so. (Solid demographic, very libertarian even if they don't call themselves that.)

What evidence is there that fiscal conservatives of any demographic support Bernie Sanders?

[Anti Federalist]

If Bern would understand that gun rights are as critical as all other "civil rights", maybe we could talk.

But, just like Trump, that's a deal breaker, because if a candidate accepts the concept of "gun control", it illustrates a fatal flaw in the proper understanding of the relationship between a citizen and the government.

[wmmonk]

If Bern would understand that gun rights are as critical as all other "civil rights", maybe we could talk.

But, just like Trump, that's a deal breaker, because if a candidate accepts the concept of "gun control", it illustrates a fatal flaw in the proper understanding of the relationship between a citizen and the government.

You don't trust your government?

[TheTexan]

You don't trust your government?

I do. Our government loves us and only wants to help us.

[RJ Liberty]

I won't tell you who to vote for or even to vote, RJ, but the overlap is significant enough for me. I've been in Vermont for 20 years. He's stood up for Vermonters and I think he does a good job representing his constituents. For the most part I think he's sincere. He's no Ron Paul but he's stood alongside him enough times for me to consider his wider vision and give it a chance. Some things are going to happen no matter who is president. I think he would be better than anyone else out there right now.

Good to have the perspective of a Vermonter, LLS. I know Sanders has the highest approval rating of any senator, as judged by his own constituents: 83%. That means quite a lot when almost no-one approves of Congress in general. And Sanders' positions on legalizing marijuana, auditing the Fed, anti-NDAA, anti-"PATRIOT" Act, and opposing the Iraq War make me think he's the best candidate currently running in a major party.

Yet I suspect I will still vote Libertarian Party in the general. If they can get 5%, they get federal funding in the next election, which I want to see happen.

[RJ Liberty]

Sanders is better than the rest now. Hillary needs to be denied her coronation!

Hillary needs to be in jail, along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld... I'd settle for a really humiliating defeat in the primaries, though. I think it's starting to happen. On Tuesday, we'll know more.

[LittleLightShining]

If Bern would understand that gun rights are as critical as all other "civil rights", maybe we could talk.

But, just like Trump, that's a deal breaker, because if a candidate accepts the concept of "gun control", it illustrates a fatal flaw in the proper understanding of the relationship between a citizen and the government.

I hear you. That's where it's interesting for me as a Vermonter. Historically he has been one of the better defenders of the 2nd Amendment-- not because he's a champion but because that was what his constituents wanted. Demographics are changing here which I'm sure plays a part in his position. What softens it for me is that he's not in the business of "taking rights away" and Vermont is a very rural state. Firearms have a place here and he has a record of respecting that.

Good to have the perspective of a Vermonter, LLS. I know Sanders has the highest approval rating of any senator, as judged by his own constituents: 83%. That means quite a lot when almost no-one approves of Congress in general. And Sanders' positions on legalizing marijuana, auditing the Fed, anti-NDAA, anti-"PATRIOT" Act, and opposing the Iraq War make me think he's the best candidate currently running in a major party.

Yet I suspect I will still vote Libertarian Party in the general. If they can get 5%, they get federal funding in the next election, which I want to see happen.

The people do love Bernie. The party does not. Major endorsements went to Hillary years ago.

The LP will only get 5% if there is a concerted effort to get 5%. Your vote is yours to use or not. You'll do the right thing

[Lucille]

The quickest way for Leviathan to implode is to pile it on, so whatever. #VoteForBern #LetItBurn

[LittleLightShining]

What evidence is there that fiscal conservatives of any demographic support Bernie Sanders?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=fiscal...OPRTSD&pc=OPER Search term: fiscally conservative milennials

Reason breaks it down https://reason.com/poll/2014/07/10/5...te-for-a-socia

Millennial support for Bernie Sanders: https://www.bing.com/search?q=milenn...OPRTSD&pc=OPER

[jmdrake]

At this point, who cares? Rand is out. The top two GOP contenders equally suck. The rest suck even more. Should I vote for Cruz to stop Trump? Should I vote for Trump to stop Cruz? Should I vote for Bernie to stop Hillary? Of all the candidates I want stopped most, it's Hillary.

When this thread was started Rand was still in the race and the Iowa disaster had not happened. Any libertarian voting for anyone but Rand at that point can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. But now? Screw it. It really doesn't matter what you do in the primary. Go to the voting booth and pull out your wiener and pee all over the electronic voting machine that may very well be rigged anyway. What difference does it make?

In 2008 and 2012 Ron state in long enough for me to vote for him. We didn't stand a chance but I believed that we did. Now? Excuse my for not hyperventilating over the fact that the one politician honest enough to at least admit that he's a socialist could actually be elected president. Think of the benefits when it comes to gridlock! Imagine Mitch McConnell having to explain to the voters back home why he caved on a socialist increase in the debt ceiling. Imagine Paul Ryan having to explain why he's giving a socialist more power to spy on the American people. Maybe those two pricks will finally develop a backbone.

If Bernie Sanders could get any of his agenda passed then this country is beyond saving anyway.

[RJ Liberty]

At this point, who cares? Rand is out. The top two GOP contenders equally suck. The rest suck even more. Should I vote for Cruz to stop Trump? Should I vote for Trump to stop Cruz? Should I vote for Bernie to stop Hillary? Of all the candidates I want stopped most, it's Hillary.

Same here. I want to see HRC humbled before the American people. I want to see Hillary begging for applause in the same way "Jeb!" has been: in half-empty meeting rooms. Bush and Clinton are two sides of the same coin, and I'm hoping the landslide results in New Hampshire (currently 60% Bernie, 39% Hillary) are a sign of her campaign beginning to circle the drain, as the American people reject the Bush/Clinton monarchy that has held its grip on the US since $#@!ing 1988. But that remains to be seen.

When this thread was started Rand was still in the race and the Iowa disaster had not happened.

The Iowa disaster was already in full swing. By December, Rand was already polling at 1-3% in the state, and had been given actual storage space for his green room for debate prep. Yet here on RPF, people still believed there were 10,000 Rand volunteers in the state. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic, but the math didn't add up, in a state with only 200,000 Republican caucus-goers. Rand had no ground game, and by December it was obvious.

Imagine Paul Ryan having to explain why he's giving a socialist more power to spy on the American people.

Sanders is running on a campaign to end or curb the domestic spying programs. No idea if he'd be successful, but a Sanders win seems unlikely to lead to more spying. Besides, what's left? closed-circuit TV cameras installed in every citizen's house?

If Bernie Sanders could get any of his agenda passed then this country is beyond saving anyway.

His agenda includes legalizing marijuana at the federal level and letting states decide, ending domestic surveillance programs, and reforming the corrupt prison system. If he could get those parts of his agenda passed, this country would be on the right path to liberty. Not sure it will happen, but to say that "any part of his agenda" being passed would be bad is, IMO, mistaken.