Challenge: Find a Bible verse that says grace is irresistible

[jmdrake]

Here are the rules. You can't post a verse that you can interpret to say grace is irresistible. You have to find one that uses those exact words. Use any version you like. And what prompted this challenge? Why Sola_Fide's dissembling on a Bible verse that says "Have a relationship with Jesus." Early on in discussion he admitted that there was such "relational language" in the Bible but then he changed his argument to "Where does the Bible say the gospel is have a relationship with Jesus?" When I called him out on his mistake, rather than admitting it, he doubled down on stupid. So any verse that can best be interpreted as "Jesus wants a relationship with you" he ignores and claims there's no verse that says "Have a relationship with Jesus." Well...there's no verse that says "Grace is irresistible" either. Note that if you post some verse that doesn't say "Grace is irresistible" as your "proof" because you think that's what the verse ultimately means, that just shows that you need to go back to elementary school and work on your reading comprehension skills.

Good luck!

[Sola_Fide]

So any verse that can best be interpreted as "Jesus wants a relationship with you" he ignores and claims there's no verse that says "Have a relationship with Jesus."

Where is the verse that can be interpreted as "Jesus wants a relationship with you"?

[jmdrake]

Where is the verse that can be interpreted as "Jesus wants a relationship with you"?

You already conceded that long ago.

[Ronin Truth]

How about a YouTube video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGw_cOgwa8

[Sola_Fide]

You already conceded that long ago.

Which one is it?

[PaulConventionWV]

The proof is that, if it were resistible and you could resist God, then you would have power over God, and that's not logically possible.

[Sola_Fide]

Acts 13:48

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

The ones who are appointed to eternal life believe. Grace cannot be resisted.

[Sola_Fide]

Here is a brief statement of the gospel from Paul:

Colossians 2:13-15

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Where is "Jesus wants to have a relationship with you" in that? It's no where. The reason that it is not there is because Jesus doesn't just want to have a "relationship" with people and then wait for them to respond with their will, He POWERFULLY and UNDENIABLY regenerates a person who is dead in their sin, cancels the charge of legal indebtedness against them, and fully saves them.

Salvation is all of God and none of man. That is why "Jesus wants a relationship with you" is a false gospel.

[Sola_Fide]

By the way, the verse above also shows that grace is irresistable. Dead men can't resist anything. They are dead. God makes a dead person alive in regeneration.

[wizardwatson]

Where is the verse that can be interpreted as "Jesus wants a relationship with you"?

Maybe?

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Sola_Fide]

Maybe?

Who was that verse written to?

[Jamesiv1]

Who was that verse written to?

Why does it matter?

[wizardwatson]

Who was that verse written to?

I think we both know.

I keep an eye on religion subforum, but threads worth commenting on are slim pickins. This thread seems devoted to complaining about you. Not really worth commenting on, but I know you're good for a reply usually.

Any ideas for some grassroots RPF Christian revival? Needed just as much as a R3volution revival I'd say.

[Ronin Truth]

I think we both know.

I keep an eye on religion subforum, but threads worth commenting on are slim pickins. This thread seems devoted to complaining about you. Not really worth commenting on, but I know you're good for a reply usually.

Any ideas for some grassroots RPF Christian revival? Needed just as much as a R3volution revival I'd say.

IDEA: Dump the Paulinist garbage.

[Sola_Fide]

Why does it matter?

Because then you can know that it was written to professing Christians, so therefore it is not a verse that means "have a relationship with Jesus".

[Sola_Fide]

I think we both know.

We do? Who?

I keep an eye on religion subforum, but threads worth commenting on are slim pickins. This thread seems devoted to complaining about you. Not really worth commenting on, but I know you're good for a reply usually.

Any ideas for some grassroots RPF Christian revival? Needed just as much as a R3volution revival I'd say.

Ok.

[wizardwatson]

IDEA: Dump the Paulinist garbage.

Well, your anti-Paulinist position is just one of your flaws. Sola's problem isn't in his Paulinist position, it's in other stuff. But of course my assertions only come from what you both would perceive as my flaws.

Of course I don't really care too much about all of that. I mean, you might Ronin, you have tons of friends on here and I only have you. I'm thinking of adding Sola_Fide. He's not as universally hated and ignored as you, but I think he's close enough for me to send him a friend request.

[Ronin Truth]

Well, your anti-Paulinist position is just one of your flaws. Sola's problem isn't in his Paulinist position, it's in other stuff. But of course my assertions only come from what you both would perceive as my flaws.

Of course I don't really care too much about all of that. I mean, you might Ronin, you have tons of friends on here and I only have you. I'm thinking of adding Sola_Fide. He's not as universally hated and ignored as you, but I think he's close enough for me to send him a friend request.

What ever floats your boat. (BTW, I've seen some pix of Grace and she really is pretty hot!)


As long as my +rep score remains comfortably above my forum post count, I'll just continue to assume that I'm doing something right.

“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paul.” -- The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul - a vast difference."
--Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark. (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

[wizardwatson]

We do? Who?

Come on. You wanted to point out that my verse was specifically to the church of Laodicea so you could point out that you weren't contradicted. If you want to play chess, play chess. Don't assume you are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers. Most are, but you will end up resorting to a few simple conditioned moves and will not recognize a chess master when you meet one and you'll be caught off guard.

Ok.

You shouldn't doubt my seriousness. I got big plans for this place and a ton of patience.

[Sola_Fide]

What ever floats your boat.


As long as my +rep score remains comfortably above my forum post count, I'll just continue to assume that I'm doing something right.

“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paul.” -- The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul - a vast difference."
--Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark. (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)

Neither of those two idiots are Christians or even claim to be Christians. Your stupidity astounds me.

[Sola_Fide]

Come on. You wanted to point out that my verse was specifically to the church of Laodicea so you could point out that you weren't contradicted. If you want to play chess, play chess. Don't assume you are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers. Most are, but you will end up resorting to a few simple conditioned moves and will not recognize a chess master when you meet one and you'll be caught off guard.



You shouldn't doubt my seriousness. I got big plans for this place and a ton of patience.

Right, so the verse was written to professing Christians. It isn't a verse written to unbelievers to "get into a relationship with Jesus". It is an exhortation for sanctification and Christians growth. It's not a verse about salvation or the gospel.

[Ronin Truth]

Come on. You wanted to point out that my verse was specifically to the church of Laodicea so you could point out that you weren't contradicted. If you want to play chess, play chess. Don't assume you are playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers. Most are, but you will end up resorting to a few simple conditioned moves and will not recognize a chess master when you meet one and you'll be caught off guard.



You shouldn't doubt my seriousness. I got big plans for this place and a ton of patience.

Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how well you play the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he’s victorious.

[Crashland]

The proof is that, if it were resistible and you could resist God, then you would have power over God, and that's not logically possible.

The same could be said about resisting anything, like God's will, which would mean free will in general is not logically possible, not just with respect to grace.

If you dont concede that free will does not exist, note that any argument that you could put forward to get you out of this with respect to free will in general, could also be applied to free will with respect to God's grace.

[Ronin Truth]

The same could be said about resisting anything, like God's will, which would mean free will in general is not logically possible, not just with respect to grace.

If you dont concede that free will does not exist, note that any argument that you could put forward to get you out of this with respect to free will in general, could also be applied to free will with respect to God's grace.

What can stand against the will of God?

[Sola_Fide]

The same could be said about resisting anything, like God's will, which would mean free will in general is not logically possible, not just with respect to grace.

If you dont concede that free will does not exist, note that any argument that you could put forward to get you out of this with respect to free will in general, could also be applied to free will with respect to God's grace.

There are too many double negatives in these sentences. What are you trying to say?

[RJB]

Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how well you play the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he’s victorious.

Wow! Are you that hobo in the park near my house who usually sits at that outdoor chess board with pigeons all around? That's awesome!

[fisharmor]

Wow! Are you that hobo in the park near my house who usually sits at that outdoor chess board with pigeons all around? That's awesome!

RJB, HB, TER, and I all prefer Go.
It's played on a larger board.
It's way more popular in the East.
It requires the player to think in the abstract and constantly see the big picture.
No computer program has been written to play it competently, let alone beat masters.
It also demands a certain aesthetic. Players admit that it could be played on cardboard with bottlecaps, but there's a strong incentive to keep the equipment and traditions the same as it's always been.

[William Tell]

Wow! Are you that hobo in the park near my house who usually sits at that outdoor chess board with pigeons all around? That's awesome!

I don't think you understand him. Isn't Ronin saying he is a flock of pigeons?

[wizardwatson]

RJB, HB, TER, and I all prefer Go.
It's played on a larger board.
It's way more popular in the East.
It requires the player to think in the abstract and constantly see the big picture.
No computer program has been written to play it competently, let alone beat masters.
It also demands a certain aesthetic. Players admit that it could be played on cardboard with bottlecaps, but there's a strong incentive to keep the equipment and traditions the same as it's always been.

There's this mini-game in Assassins' Creed 3 and 4 called "Men's Morris", either 6 Men's Morris, 9 Men's Morris, and 12 Men's Morris. Only differing by number of spaces on the board

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Men%27s_Morris

Very addictive. I kind of got frustrated with my kid because I was trying to show him some of the cool parts of the game and he kept playing this mini-game because he was frustrated he couldn't beat the computer. Eventually he did. I think he spent over an hours worth of game time playing this.

Kind of similar to Go, but simpler and probably easier to play drunk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YupkzpBVG1g

[Ronin Truth]

Wow! Are you that hobo in the park near my house who usually sits at that outdoor chess board with pigeons all around? That's awesome!

Nope, he's playing "Pigeon".