Must Libertarians Believe in Open Borders?

[LibertyEagle]

And they still can not understand it will be taken away from them when the 3rd worlders get power.

In the end they lose everything.

The idea of nations is to carve out a part of the world to allow like-minded people who want to live by some basic rules to congregate together. So that if they were attacked, they would have a prayer of defending their little plot of land and the culture they had built.

[AmericanSpartan]

That is why I asked you about ideas. Are ideas physical things that get locked into a person's skull and sticks in their head and moves around with them? Or are ideas immaterial entities that are not bound by a person's head.

If ideas are not bound by a physical person's head, then restricting immigration does nothing to solve the problems you think exist in this country.

Ideas are worthless without supporters. If you do not have tens of millions of welfare voters, leftism would go no where fast.

No, those problems do exist, and your denial of readily only shows the lunacy of the open borders faction.

[LibertyEagle]

And they still can not understand it will be taken away from them when the 3rd worlders get power.

In the end they lose everything.

The idea of nations is to carve out a part of the world to allow like-minded people who want to live by some basic rules to congregate together. So that if they were attacked, they would have a prayer of defending their little plot of land and the culture they had built.

[erowe1]

No, it's true. Wear it. You've earned it, erowe.

No it isn't. Immigration regulation came about here as part of the progressive movement, and it has always gone hand in hand with socialism. Just look on this site. The ones who support it the most are the most progressive statist ones like you and AmericanSpartan. All of the libertarians follow Ron Paul's lead in opposing all of the big government restrictions on immigration that you want. This is Ron Paul Forums, after all, not Bernie Sanders Forums.

[erowe1]

The idea of nations is to carve out a part of the world to allow like-minded people who want to live by some basic rules to congregate together.

So do that. I don't want to stop you. Just don't try to impose your like-mindedness on me.

[LibertyEagle]

No it isn't. Immigration regulation came about here as part of the progressive movement, and it has always gone hand in hand with socialism. Just look on this site. The ones who support it the most are the most progressive statist ones like you and AmericanSpartan. All of the libertarians follow Ron Paul's lead in opposing all of the big government restrictions on immigration that you want. This is Ron Paul Forums, after all, not Bernie Sanders Forums.

Neither Ron or Rand agree with your open borders bull$#@!, erowe. A fact that has been pointed out to you time and time again. Hell, even Lew Rockwell doesn't agree with you. lol

[erowe1]

Neither Ron or Rand agree with your open borders bull$#@!, erowe. A fact that has been pointed out to you time and time again. Hell, even Lew Rockwell doesn't agree with you. lol

If you think they agree with your closed border policies, you're crazy. They have come out against them very vocally, especially Ron Paul, the guy this website is named after. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, yet you keep lying about it.

[LibertyEagle]

So do that. I don't want to stop you. Just don't try to impose your like-mindedness on me.

The U.S. already exists. So, if you want some little commie enclave, you are going to need to go find a new plot of land and start your own thing. See ya.

[AmericanSpartan]

No, it isn't. Immigration is people moving from one region to another, usually across some State-defined borders.

Yes it is as those people have a culture, values, and political views.

That you'd like to imagine these words are the same doesn't make them so. As I observed earlier, you seem to have issues when it comes to words and their meaning. I would suggest you become more literate and accurate with your use of words, for our sake as much as your own.

Please tell lying to yourself, it does not work on the non weak minded.

Such as yourself?

No, such as the 3rd world hordes that vote for them same failed ideas they supported back home.

Where have I said anything about a so-called "perfect solution?"

You want to "repair" (whatever that means) and sustain the State?

No, the nation, culture, and the means to maintain and protect it.

[erowe1]

No, the nation, culture, and the means to maintain and protect it.

How do you propose doing that without a state?

[AmericanSpartan]

The idea of nations is to carve out a part of the world to allow like-minded people who want to live by some basic rules to congregate together. So that if they were attacked, they would have a prayer of defending their little plot of land and the culture they had built.

But some how importing the dregs of the 3rd world will make things perfect and not create Hell on Earth.

[erowe1]

The U.S. already exists. So, if you want some little commie enclave, you are going to need to go find a new plot of land and start your own thing. See ya.

I don't. I want freedom. Commie enclaves always support strict immigration restriction. They're where you got the idea from.

[otherone]

The idea of nations is to carve out a part of the world to allow like-minded people who want to live by some basic rules to congregate together. So that if they were attacked, they would have a prayer of defending their little plot of land and the culture they had built.

[LibertyEagle]

If you think they agree with your closed border policies, you're crazy. They have come out against them very vocally, especially Ron Paul, the guy this website is named after. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, yet you keep lying about it.

You lie on so many fronts. Number one, I never said I was for "closed" borders. I want legal immigration and plenty of travel.

Both Ron and Rand have stated numerous times that they are not for open borders in any way while the welfare state exists. Lew has said same. Ron Paul has also stressed his belief in national sovereignty; something you hate.

So, go spread your lies elsewhere, erowe. I've had your number for a very long time.

[erowe1]

But some how importing the dregs of the 3rd world will make things perfect and not create Hell on Earth.

So don't import them. Just leave people alone to be able to come here on their own without being imported.

[erowe1]

Number one, I never said I was for "closed" borders.

Oh good. Then you're for open borders. Open and closed are the only options.

Now which one of those two were you saying Ron Paul supported again?

Just to be clear, when you bring up Ron Paul's policy prescriptions; he is against regulating who people can and cannot hire and rent out or sell property to. He is against deporting people. He is against Social Security Cards and other national ID. He is against E-Verify. He is against a wall at the border. He is against every possible means of effectively restricting immigration. I agree with him in all of those points. Do you? Yes or no?

[LibertyEagle]

I don't. I want freedom. Commie enclaves always support strict immigration restriction. They're where you got the idea from.

You don't want a nation at all!!!!!

[Cabal]

Yes it is as those people have a culture, values, and political views.

So?

Please tell lying to yourself, it does not work on the non weak minded.

I don't even know wtf you're trying to say here.

No, such as the 3rd world hordes that vote for them same failed ideas they supported back home.

So, you're not a fan of the idea that other people can rule over and impose on you via the State through voting? Me neither.

Congratulations on finding a reason to reject statism.

No, the nation, culture, and the means to maintain and protect it.

And do those means include the State?

[AmericanSpartan]

No it isn't. Immigration regulation came about here as part of the progressive movement, and it has always gone hand in hand with socialism. Just look on this site. The ones who support it the most are the most progressive statist ones like you and AmericanSpartan. All of the libertarians follow Ron Paul's lead in opposing all of the big government restrictions on immigration that you want. This is Ron Paul Forums, after all, not Bernie Sanders Forums.

And it worked, you left that part out. You know what always has gone hand in hand with socialism, drink water and breath air.

And how has mass immigration worked out? What have we gotten so far? Oh yeah THE PATRIOT ACT, AFTER 9/11 WHEN WE WERE ATTACKED BY TERRORIST THAT IMMIGRATED HERE ON STUDENT VISAS, SO MASS IMMIGRATION CAUSED THE GROWTH OF THE POLICE STATE, WHICH YOU SAID WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF WE DID NOT RESTRICT IMMIGRATION!

So do that. I don't want to stop you. Just don't try to impose your like-mindedness on me.

No, you are trying to destroy us and reduce our power, liberty, and future, you get no say.

If you think they agree with your closed border policies, you're crazy. They have come out against them very vocally, especially Ron Paul, the guy this website is named after. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, yet you keep lying about it.

May want to look up Rand`s stance they are a changin.

How do you propose doing that without a state?

Never said they we were and are going to do it without a state, not sure it can be done. But then again the role of the state is the protection of the nation, if you do not think the state has a role then you are an anarchist and really you have no value.

[LibertyEagle]

Oh good. Then you're for open borders. Open and closed are the only options.

Bull$#@!. I want a border, travel and lawful immigration.

You don't want a country at all.

[erowe1]

You don't want a nation at all!!!!!

Says who?

I don't want a state at all. I've never said or implied that I didn't want a nation.

[AmericanSpartan]

I don't. I want freedom. Commie enclaves always support strict immigration restriction. They're where you got the idea from.

So you want freedom, but not the burden of protecting it? Well might as well out on your chains.

Yeah, screaming "commies support immigration restriction" does not make an argument.

[erowe1]

You don't want a country at all.

Can you quote where I said that?

You keep conflating the federal government with the country. You can't even conceive of the one without the other.

[Natural Citizen]

No, I know some of you don't. And in my opinion, that puts you in the same bucket as the globalist traitors who are doing everything in their power to bring the country down.

Eeeeeeeeeyep. I've concluded that there are times when "libertarians" demonstrate themselves to be equally as tyrannical as the government tyrants themselves.

[erowe1]

So you want freedom, but not the burden of protecting it?

Protecting it is what I'm doing when I explain to you why you should change your views and start supporting freedom.

[AmericanSpartan]

You lie on so many fronts. Number one, I never said I was for "closed" borders. I want legal immigration and plenty of travel.

Both Ron and Rand have stated numerous times that they are not for open borders in any way while the welfare state exists. Lew has said same. Ron Paul has also stressed his belief in national sovereignty; something you hate.

So, go spread your lies elsewhere, erowe. I've had your number for a very long time.

Hey lets not go nuts on legal immigration.

[Cabal]

You can't even conceive of the one without the other.

She might hurt herself in the process. Brain probably isn't used to such exercise.

[AmericanSpartan]

So don't import them. Just leave people alone to be able to come here on their own without being imported.

The left allows them to immigrate. How about we do not allow them to come as we are all better off for it.

[Brett85]

A better question would be, "can you be a libertarian and support open borders?"

http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers

[AmericanSpartan]

Oh good. Then you're for open borders. Open and closed are the only options.

Now which one of those two were you saying Ron Paul supported again?

Just to be clear, when you bring up Ron Paul's policy prescriptions; he is against regulating who people can and cannot hire and rent out or sell property to. He is against deporting people. He is against Social Security Cards and other national ID. He is against E-Verify. He is against a wall at the border. He is against every possible means of effectively restricting immigration. I agree with him in all of those points. Do you? Yes or no?

So not secure? Just closed, nothing in between? People wonder why Libertarians are accused of having autism. How did we get national IDs again? How? Like What caused just an idea to become law again? What was it, and who caused it and how did they come into the nation again?