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Thread: Must Libertarians Believe in Open Borders?

  1. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    It's ironic that a xenophobe has taken as his screen name a swarthy-skinned people that invaded a fair-skinned one.
    No, not wanting to be replaced and your nation/culture/Liberty Destroyed is not "xenophobic" its call self preservation sorry if you can not understand that some people, cultures, values, and political views are not conducive to Liberty.



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  3. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    When has anarchy led to Liberty? How did that work out well in any nation since oh I do not know..Rome? The French Revolution, Spain, Russia, China, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Cuba, Mexico, How is Liberty in the middle East?
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  4. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    The people in some states are less conducive to liberty than people from other states. Therefore, travel must be restricted, and people must be deported.
    Yeah, that 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th Amendment makes that no possible.

    But I total see the reasoning as people from the North East/Commieforina always spread their sickness else where.

  5. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    No, you are a person that can not understand self interest and how it is illogical to work against your own, mass immigration is against our interests as it imports tens of millions of people that will support leftist ideals/politics and will reshape our demographics as to insure we never have any real power.

    If you can not understand this it is your problem and all the name call and cries of "racist" or "Marxist" does not change it.

    Cucknservativism and Libertardism are done, if Liberty is to survival we will restore sanity, and we are not going to do i nicely as doing things nicely got us into the situation that we are in.


    No?

    Well, you just said:

    1. some people are more free than others
    2. people get rights from government

    You are a MARXIST. Those are MARXIST ideas. You do not, in any way, support liberty or freedom.

    You are one of those useless numbskulls who glombs on to state-generated slogans, never understanding your own slavery.
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 01-05-2016 at 11:26 AM.

  6. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Yeah, that 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th Amendment makes that no possible.

    But I total see the reasoning as people from the North East/Commieforina always spread their sickness else where.
    Are ideas physical things that remain in a person's skull in their own location? Or are ideas immaterial things that do not stay inside a person's body?

    And if the ideas do float around, why are we freedom-loving Kentuckians allowed to see, hear or read the ideas from these Commifornians? Shouldn't their press and publications be monitored and censored to protect the rest of us white patriots?

  7. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Yeah, that 8th, 9th, 10th, and 14th Amendment makes that no possible.
    Why would some spots of ink on paper make it impossible?

  8. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    No. Open borders is a libertarian position. Leftists have always been for closed borders.
    Leftists are for open borders. You're with Pelosi and McCain. Enjoy.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  9. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    We've already been through this, but you are simply not sophisticated enough to make a consistent argument. Are people in Europe less free than Americans? Is a libertarian in Canada less free than a Marxist American?

    You see, you don't have a philosophy of rights that makes freedom natural to men. You propose rights that are granted by the state. This alone should render you a laughingstock on this board, but sadly this board is bereft of real libertarians nowadays.
    You get all this from saying that he believes in national sovereignty and deciding who and how many immigrate to the nation?

    Fact is, you don't want a nation, much less national sovereignty. Your ideals are right in keeping with the globalists. You should be ashamed, Sola.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  10. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    Again, who said anything about importing anyone?



    This is the first time you've made such a criticism of me in this exchange. "Once again" doesn't apply. You're not the greatest with words, and their meaning, are you?

    Also, I have every right to call you out on your flagrant promotion of State violence and State property rights. What do you know about rights, anyway? You think the State has property rights, and the right to initiate violence. Your understanding of rights is clearly, and unfortunately quite lacking.



    Of course the State has no legitimate role in society. The only way the State could ever conceivably have a legitimate role in society is when it has achieved universal, unanimous consent from those it would mean to govern.

    So what if I'm an anarchist? That doesn't make your promotion of State violence and property rights any more compatible with liberty.
    That is what immigration is, the importation of people, their cultures and their politics, how you open border supporters not understand this is beyond us.

    I know they do not exist or are protected when you have majority of people that do not understand them, value you or vote/act to protect them.


    You want to take about some perfect solution while the nation burns, I seek to put out the flames and repair damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    No. Open borders is a libertarian position. Leftists have always been for closed borders.
    Yeah, once they have used mass immigration to collapse the nation as to create a police state.

    Switzerland has a close border, yet very right leaning.

    Over what other people do with their own property? No. I have no right to have a say in that. And they don't have a right to have a say over what I do with mine.
    No, I pay, I get a say, and I NOPE.

    Deal with it.



    Yes. That's why I oppose laws that entail the state effectively taking over my property by telling me who I may or may not allow onto it.
    So why not stop the importation of people that overwhelming support a bigger goverment and if given the chance will vote for it as they will out vote you and your interests?






    No. Not one bit. I am an individual, just like you are. And the individual will always be a minority in any nation.
    Yeah, and this sort of nonsense will not protect your rights from being voted away by imported voter blocs.

    Do you want to live in NYC, or the California where you vote nor your rights will never matter? Because that is why that sort of foolishness will get you.


    How? The fact that someone else wants to eat a taco doesn't keep me from eating a hamburger. My culture will survive for as long as I choose to observe it. So will yours. You need to disabuse yourself of this left-wing victim mentality you have.
    No, you fail to understand that some cultures do not want to nor can co exists as well as the power of bloc voter bases.


    Sorry if you can not understand having your nation and countrymen harmed by mass immigration, from crime to terrorism, to demographic tilting is a very real issue.

    Yes. Ergo, the state must not be permitted to regulate culture.
    No, culture regulates the state, and we are going to use it to protect our interests.

    Yes. That's why I oppose your continual insistence on stripping me of these rights.
    You do not have the right to aid and abide law breakers not commit treason.

    No we don't. You might. But we don't. You worry about yourself and leave the rest of us alone.
    [/QUOTE]

    No, since your actions effect me I am going to watch what your side does and stop it when its asshatery effects me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    No?

    You just said:

    1. some people are more free than others
    2. people get rights from government

    You are a MARXIST. Those are MARXIST ideas. You do not, in any way, support liberty or freedom.

    You are one of those useless numbskulls who globs on to state-generated slogans, never understanding your own slavery.
    Never said the latter, you clearly are not capable of understanding what I mean when talking about the 1st.

    You always scream "Marxist" as if that make so, it does not.

    Yes, I have no idea about slavery but you support importing people that will vote away your rights, freedom, wealth, and future.

  11. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Those are states within a nation. Because different nations of different people, with different cultures and different political values and some are just superiority to others, those that are superiority should not be brought down by those that are inferior.

    Not all people, ideals, values, and politics are conducive to Liberty.
    Fact is, each nation should be able to decide who they want to immigrate to their country. In the U.S., we were very picky until 1965 when Teddy Kennedy opened the floodgates to people in nations we previously did not allow immigrants from.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  12. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Are ideas physical things that remain in a person's skull in their own location? Or are ideas immaterial things that do not stay inside a person's body?
    If they are not in our nation, they can not greatly effect us. That is a fact.

    IF they are kept out of our nation, they can not effect our lives, cost us money, or effect our elections.

    And if the ideas do float around, why are we freedom-loving Kentuckians allowed to see, hear or read the ideas from these Commifornians? Shouldn't their press and publications be monitored and censored to protect the rest of us white patriots?
    1st Amendment, 14th Amendment, Freedom to travel inside the nation.

  13. #222

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    The thing you have to understand, Spartan, is that some here WANT the country to fall. They are ignorant enough to believe that they will be allowed to rebuild it from the ashes. lol. So, anything they can do to speed up the fall, they are all for.

    Obviously, I am not one of them.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    If they are not in our nation, they can not greatly effect us. That is a fact.

    IF they are kept out of our nation, they can not effect our lives, cost us money, or effect our elections.
    What? How can ideas "stay out of our nation"? Can't anyone go on the net and read anything they want?

  15. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    You get all this from saying that he believes in national sovereignty and deciding who and how many immigrate to the nation?

    Fact is, you don't want a nation, much less national sovereignty. Your ideals are right in keeping with the globalists. You should be ashamed, Sola.
    He should be alast he does not nor will he...They want a massive world wide gulag, it will be a living hell but along as they feel morally superior to all the "bigots" and "racists" all will be well.

  16. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    He should be alast he does not nor will he...They want a massive world wide gulag, it will be a living hell but along as they feel morally superior to all the "bigots" and "racists" all will be well.
    No, they don't really want that. They just are extremely naive and don't get that when our country falls, we will be ushered into world government.

    Even Lew Rockwell at Mises thinks their open borders BS is dumbass.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  17. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Fact is, each nation should be able to decide who they want to immigrate to their country. In the U.S., we were very picky until 1965 when Teddy Kennedy opened the floodgates to people in nations we previously did not allow immigrants from.
    Yes and then we started our path to national decline, but not to worry soon immigration sanity will reign.

    Why some people do not understand they will be out voted by allowing the floodgates to open to the 3rd world is beyond me. Do they just ignore reality because it is "offensive"?

  18. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    The thing you have to understand, Spartan, is that some here WANT the country to fall. They are ignorant enough to believe that they will be allowed to rebuild it from the ashes. lol. So, anything they can do to speed up the fall, they are all for.

    Obviously, I am not one of them.
    Yeah, they think if they import enough collectivist, tribalism, low IQed 3rd worlders and things go to crap things will work out, why is beyond me.

  19. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    What? How can ideas "stay out of our nation"? Can't anyone go on the net and read anything they want?
    Yes, but they won't be spreading their ideology in our schools or voting booths.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  20. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Yeah, they think if they import enough collectivist, tribalism, low IQed 3rd worlders and things go to crap things will work out, why is beyond me.
    Because they don't value nations. They only value personal private property.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  21. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    What? How can ideas "stay out of our nation"? Can't anyone go on the net and read anything they want?
    I mean we can keep people out of the nation.

  22. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    why is beyond me.
    Many things seem beyond you.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  23. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Never said the latter, you clearly are not capable of understanding what I mean when talking about the 1st.
    You just said that some people do not have the rights that white Americans have. How did the white Americans get those rights and the other people not?

    You always scream "Marxist" as if that make so, it does not.

    Yes, I have no idea about slavery but you support importing people that will vote away your rights, freedom, wealth, and future.
    I'm not screaming it, I'm describing your view of rights. You don't have a view of rights that makes freedom natural to man. You think some have rights that others don't. And the only way that you can believe that is if rights come from a government decree.

    If rights don't come from a government decree, then where do they come from?

  24. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yes, but they won't be spreading their ideology in our schools or voting booths.

    And without that mass of imported voters the left will die.

  25. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Leftists are for open borders. You're with Pelosi and McCain. Enjoy.
    That's false, and it always has been.

    You're with Stalin, Mao, and Bernie Sanders.

  26. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    Many things seem beyond you.
    Yes, if he'd just get in line and become a leftist tool for the globalists, he'd be all good, right?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  27. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Because they don't value nations. They only value personal private property.
    And they still can not understand it will be taken away from them when the 3rd worlders get power.

    In the end they lose everything.

  28. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    I mean we can keep people out of the nation.
    That is why I asked you about ideas. Are ideas physical things that get locked into a person's skull and sticks in their head and moves around with them? Or are ideas immaterial entities that are not bound by a person's head.

    If ideas are not bound by a physical person's head, then restricting immigration does nothing to solve the problems you think exist in this country.

  29. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    That's false, and it always has been.

    You're with Stalin, Mao, and Bernie Sanders.
    No, it's true. Wear it. You've earned it, erowe.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  30. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    You just said that some people do not have the rights that white Americans have. How did the white Americans get those rights and the other people not?
    I said that some do not fight the rights that Anglo Americans are fighting to protect.

    I'm not screaming it, I'm describing your view of rights. You don't have a view of rights that makes freedom natural to man. You think some have rights that others don't. And the only way that you can believe that is if rights come from a government decree.

    If rights don't come from a government decree, then where do they come from?
    From your existence or God depending on your views. That being said the right to immigrate/tresspass does not exinst.

  31. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    That is what immigration is, the importation of people
    No, it isn't. Immigration is people moving (usually of their own will, under their own power, and at their own expense) from one region to another, usually across some State-defined borders.

    That you'd like to imagine these words are the same doesn't make them so. As I observed earlier, you seem to have issues when it comes to words and their meaning. I would suggest you become more literate and accurate with your use of words, for our sake as much as your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    I know they do not exist or are protected when you have majority of people that do not understand them
    Such as yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    You want to take about some perfect solution while the nation burns, I seek to put out the flames and repair damage.
    Where have I said anything about a so-called "perfect solution?"

    You want to "repair" (whatever that means) and sustain the State?
    Last edited by Cabal; 01-05-2016 at 12:03 PM.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

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