Must Libertarians Believe in Open Borders?

[r3volution 3.0]

White power!

[AmericanSpartan]

So you can not make a point, and do not care about how immigration will reduce your liberty, wealth, and future...Great to know.

[erowe1]

So you can not make a point, and do not care about how immigration will reduce your liberty, wealth, and future...Great to know.

If violating your rights will increase my wealth and liberty, that doesn't make it OK for me to do it. Morally, I have no choice. My rights extend out from me forever until they bump into yours. I just have to accept that, and so should you.

[cajuncocoa]

So you can not make a point, and do not care about how immigration will reduce your liberty, wealth, and future...Great to know.

It's not immigration that's responsible for that. It's federal governmental economic policy. If you propose ending welfare, free education, food stamp programs, etc., I'm right there with you, because that drains our wealth, whether those goodies are taken by immigrants or the lazy ass 26-year old kid of your "White" next-door-neighbor who was born right here in the U.S.A. and refuses to get a job and/or marketable skills.

Let me put this relevant link here, just for kicks.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ING-LIFESKILLS

[LibertyEagle]

If violating your rights will increase my wealth and liberty, that doesn't make it OK for me to do it. Morally, I have no choice. My rights extend out from me forever until they bump into yours. I just have to accept that, and so should you.

I'm sure he does. But, he also believes in national sovereignty. Something you don't believe in.

[LibertyEagle]

It's not immigration that's responsible for that. It's federal governmental economic policy. If you propose ending welfare, free education, food stamp programs, etc., I'm right there with you, because that drains our wealth, whether those goodies are taken by immigrants or the lazy ass 26-year old kid of your "White" next-door-neighbor who was born right here in the U.S.A. and refuses to get a job and/or marketable skills.

So, until that is done, you're fine with our country getting overrun by illegal aliens. Gotcha.

[cajuncocoa]

So, until that is done, you're fine with our country getting overrun by illegal aliens. Gotcha.

You will not find that in any of my posts. What I'm fighting against with this moron is the notion of wanting to keep the U.S. ethnically pure. I'm not sure he would support even legal immigration of non-white people.

[LibertyEagle]

Racism usually appeals to extremely dull and cowardly people.

Anglo power!

lol. You've lost the argument and you know it, Sola. That's why you're sounding like you are applying for employment with the Southern Poverty Law Center.

[LibertyEagle]

You will not find that in any of my posts. What I'm fighting against with this moron is the notion of wanting to keep the U.S. ethnically pure.

You just said it here...

It's not immigration that's responsible for that. It's federal governmental economic policy. If you propose ending welfare, free education, food stamp programs, etc., I'm right there with you, because that drains our wealth, whether those goodies are taken by immigrants or the lazy ass 26-year old kid of your "White" next-door-neighbor who was born right here in the U.S.A. and refuses to get a job and/or marketable skills.

[erowe1]

So, until that is done, you're fine with our country getting overrun by illegal aliens. Gotcha.

You keep using the qualification "illegal." But that's disingenuous, because when asked if you would be fine with their coming here legally, you confess that you wouldn't.

[erowe1]

I'm sure he does. But, he also believes in national sovereignty. Something you don't believe in.

I'm not even sure what you mean by that term.

I do believe in individual sovereignty. Do you?

[LibertyEagle]

You keep using the qualification "illegal." But that's disingenuous, because when asked if you would be fine with their coming here legally, you confess that you wouldn't.

I didn't confess $#@!, erowe. What I told you was that I wanted our immigration laws followed. They are not being followed. End of story.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm not even sure what you mean by that term.

Yeah, you do.

I do believe in individual sovereignty. Do you?

Go to hell, erowe. I don't talk to people whose rhetoric has exposed them to be traitors. You want the U.S. to crumble. I don't know why in the hell you are even on this forum.

[cajuncocoa]

You just said it here...

Where did I say I support illegal immigration in that post? You're seeing what you want to see. All I said there is that it's our government's economic policy that is the main problem.

Ron Paul seems to agree.

Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace
Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards.Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/

[LibertyEagle]

For all of this "culture" bull$#@! you keep spouting off about, I have to wonder if English is your primary language. Your vocabulary is atrocious.

It's the globalists who have been pushing muilticulturalism and they've been doing it, among other things, to bring down the U.S.

[LibertyEagle]

Where did I say I support illegal immigration in that post? You're seeing what you want to see. All I said there is that it's our government's economic policy that is the main problem.

Ron Paul seems to agree.

Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.
Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards.Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/

Ron Paul is also not FOR illegal immigration. Something you conveniently have avoided quoting.

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul is also not FOR illegal immigration. Something you conveniently have avoided quoting.

I didn't say I am either. What YOU fail to recognize is, this issue is a magnet for racists and xenophobes. That may not be why you're against illegal immigration, but to deny this is sticking your head up your ass.

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul is also not FOR illegal immigration. Something you conveniently have avoided quoting.

I know you always have reading comprehension problems....did you notice the part you quoted where I posted from his article "Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards"?

Yeah, I guess I "conveniently...avoided quoting" Ron's position on illegal immigration. You're right. /sarcasm.

[AmericanSpartan]

You will not find that in any of my posts. What I'm fighting against with this moron is the notion of wanting to keep the U.S. ethnically pure. I'm not sure he would support even legal immigration of non-white people.

I support a 10 ban on all immigration, to assimilate the people we have now. And their is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the Nations Founding Stock in the majority, a nation Absent a founding group or majority, it would be no nation at all, but a random gathering of people of assorted races, religions, and nationalities, united only by their presence in the same land. With no native culture to provide national unity, the population would tend to fragment on racial and ethnic lines, ensuring division and strife as groups pursue their interests at each other’s expense. That may be our multicultural future.


I would have an immigration with strict controls, a set limit of 200,o00 persons, skill/merit oriented no family reunification scams, no "diversity" lottery scams, and I would favor Native Born, Liberty minded Western as for them to make at a min 70% of the allotment.

[erowe1]

You want the U.S. to crumble

You mean the federal government? Yeah. If you don't, then that's your problem.

I don't know why in the hell you are even on this forum.

Because it's the Ron Paul forums. I share his political views. But it's not the David Duke forums. So what's your excuse?

[AmericanSpartan]

Where did I say I support illegal immigration in that post? You're seeing what you want to see. All I said there is that it's our government's economic policy that is the main problem.

Ron Paul seems to agree.

Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace
Ron Paul proposed the following action steps for dealing with illegal immigration:

1. Abolish the welfare state. The incentive to take a job at whatever wage available must prevail.
2. Establish a generous visitor work program. Once we solve the economic crisis by introducing sound money, demand for domestic and immigrant labor will rise.
3. Enforce the laws on the books with more border guards.Allow states and landowners to enforce the law and provide security assistance.
4. Abolish birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. [Current U.S. citizens will not be affected. Instead, babies born to illegals after a future cutoff date will no longer gain automatic U.S. citizenship. They will still have citizenship in their parents’ home countries.]
5. End all federal mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care for illegal immigrants.

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/

And if we do not reduce legal immigration more immigrants will come in, then vote to recreate the current welfare system and all the work we have done will be for nothing.

[AmericanSpartan]

I didn't say I am either. What YOU fail to recognize is, this issue is a magnet for racists and xenophobes. That may not be why you're against illegal immigration, but to deny this is sticking your head up your ass.

No, its magnet for people that care about their race, culture, nation, Liberty and future and refuse to repeat history as to avoid being called names by people who can not make an argument.

[LibertyEagle]

And if we do not reduce legal immigration more immigrants will come in, then vote to recreate the current welfare system and all the work we have done will be for nothing.

They don't care. They hate the country and want to see it fall.

[LibertyEagle]

You mean the federal government? Yeah. If you don't, then that's your problem.

Because it's the Ron Paul forums. I share his political views. But it's not the David Duke forums. So what's your excuse?

I joined this forum because I have supported Ron Paul for decades.

Since you don't back him on much of anything, perhaps a Karl Marx forum would be more to your liking.

[cajuncocoa]

They don't care. They hate the country and want to see it fall.

So, you want to reduce legal immigration too. I see.

[AmericanSpartan]

You mean the federal government? Yeah. If you don't, then that's your problem.



Because it's the Ron Paul forums. I share his political views. But it's not the David Duke forums. So what's your excuse?

And when it does, do you think it would be a wise think to have tens of millions of imported welfare addicts that will blindly support what ever tyrants replace them?

Yeah the "Your a Nazi if you do not agree with me" card is a leftist tactic and it does not work anymore.

[LibertyEagle]

So, you want to reduce legal immigration too. I see.

If you're talking about Rand's suggestion to stop immigration from countries who hate us, yeah, I agree.

[AmericanSpartan]

They don't care. They hate the country and want to see it fall.

They should move to Mexico or Somalia.

[AmericanSpartan]

So, you want to reduce legal immigration too. I see.

Make the case against it.

[AmericanSpartan]

If you're talking about Rand's suggestion to stop immigration from countries who hate us, yeah, I agree.

Latin nations- "Hey can we dump millions of people on you who are going to take out more then put in, will change the make up of your nation, cause massive spikes in crime, and will vote away your rights, wealth, and future?"

Islamic terrorist-"Can we come in, demand welfare, rape you women, and kill innocent people who do not worship a pedophile desert pirate?"

Open border supports/cultural relativists/multiculturalism/anti whites-"Sure!, I mean all people have the right to move anywhere they want, and all people, cultures and values are conducive to Liberty and if a few bad things happen like our rights are voted away, or we are bred out of existence, our culture destroyed and our history who cares?"

We did not allow in mass immigration from East Europe after the Communist took over Russia via the 1924 Immigration Act, we shut down immigration from enemy nations during the World Wars, we did not allow in know communists supports during the Cold War, we did not allow in Iranians during or really since the hostage event, why the hell should we take in people that we are at war with, will harm us or vote away our Liberty/replace us in our nation?

They can not make a point so they have to resort to name call, they are afraid as we are not longer caring what they say or think as continued mass immigration will result in more Liberty, Rights, Wealth and control over our future is stolen from us.