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Thread: Must Libertarians Believe in Open Borders?

  1. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    So?



    I don't even know wtf you're trying to say here.



    So, you're not a fan of the idea that other people can rule over and impose on you via the State through voting? Me neither.
    Congratulations on finding a reason to reject statism.

    And do those means include the State?
    Not a fan, but if I have to I will rule over others as to prevent them from ruling over me.



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  3. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    A better question would be, "can you be a libertarian and support open borders?"

    http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers
    Oh NO! FACTS!, RUN FOR YOUR FALLACIES, ALL HOPE IS LOST!

  4. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    A better question would be, "can you be a libertarian and support open borders?"

    http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers
    Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.
    The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality
    Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.
    At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.
    Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.
    Anti-federalism ftw.
    Education is not a Right. Let the states decide if they want to be bled dry.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  5. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Protecting it is what I'm doing when I explain to you why you should change your views and start supporting freedom.

    Allowing in people that will vote against, and will vote away your rights and wealth, destroying your culture and reducing you to a cuckolded minority is not freedom, that is suicide if you want to commit that, please shoot yourself but the moment you try and take other with you, that becomes murder and you will be dealt with...Harshly,

  6. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    How about we do not allow them to come as we are all better off for it.
    How about you do not impose your views by way of violence on anyone else.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  7. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Allowing in people that will vote against, and will vote away your rights and wealth, destroying your culture and reducing you to a cuckolded minority is not freedom, that is suicide if you want to commit that, please shoot yourself but the moment you try and take other with you, that becomes murder and you will be dealt with...Harshly,
    Why must they be allowed to vote?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  8. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Anti-federalism ftw.
    Education is not a Right. Let the states decide if they want to be bled dry.
    Well tell that to courts/feds as they do what ever they want and we have no power to stop them, that might change but it will not if we are outvoted by 3rd world welfare hordes who get "free" stuff.

    Now you understand how mass immigration harms us.

  9. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Why must they be allowed to vote?
    Because the left needs uneducated, Low IQed, No info voters that will sell out the nation for "free" stuff. They will do anything for more voters.

    Also that mistake called the 14th Amendment.

  10. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    I will rule over others as to prevent them from ruling over me.
    You have no right to rule over anyone.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  11. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    How about you do not impose your views by way of violence on anyone else.
    If we do not impose ours on their they will do the same to us, Trust me its better this way.

    Do not come here, if you do you will be at best deported, no trial, no judge, nothing on the plane you go, and at worse you might die.

    You would rather fall on your sword then defend yourself with it, that is why people like you do not matter in the long run.

  12. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    You have no right to rule over anyone.
    Tell that to them. The idea that "if I do not do A the opposition will also not do A" is very misguided and pointless.
    Last edited by AmericanSpartan; 01-05-2016 at 12:57 PM.

  13. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Trust me its better this way.
    No. I don't and won't trust you. You haven't even managed to qualify as someone who is not a flagrantly dangerous imbecile, let alone someone I would ever trust. And I sure as $#@! don't trust you to determine what is or is not better where I, or my family is concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Do not come here, if you do you will be at best deported, no trial, no judge, nothing on the plane you go, and at worse you might die.
    Where is "here?" What right do you have to determine the rules of access to property that is not your own? I'll make it easy for you, the answer is: NONE.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    You would rather fall on your sword then defend yourself with it, that is why people like you do not matter in the long run.
    Because I find it morally atrocious to support State violence against peaceful people, I am "falling on my sword?"

    What the actual $#@! are you even talking about?
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  14. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Because the left needs uneducated, Low IQed, No info voters that will sell out the nation for "free" stuff. They will do anything for more voters.

    Also that mistake called the 14th Amendment.
    Excellent.
    Now we are making headway.
    Voting is not a Right, nor is citizenship, education, or welfare.
    How these privileges are determined are through the legislative process.
    As I've said, the states should have the power to decide their own policies in regards to privileges, as determined by their people.
    Repeal the 14th. Repeal the 17th. It's cheaper than putting us all in a cage.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  15. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Tell that to them.
    "They're" not the ones arguing that they have a right to rule over anyone. You are. And stop pretending like you're talking about a group of violent criminals breaking into your home and assaulting you. You're the only aggressively violent one in this equation, so far as I can tell.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  16. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    "They're" not the ones arguing that they have a right to rule over anyone. You are. And stop pretending like you're talking about a group of violent criminals breaking into your home and assaulting you. You're the only aggressively violent one in this equation, so far as I can tell.
    Like all crusading statists, he must have enemies in which to wage a war against. But he doesn't understand that war is the health of the state.

  17. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Allowing in people that will vote against, and will vote away your rights and wealth
    It's a good thing our rights and wealth are so well protected while we whites are still the majority. Sieg Heil!

  18. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    It's a good thing our rights and wealth are so well protected while we whites are still the majority. Sieg Heil!
    Yeah. We whites are good at rejecting redistribution.

  19. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    No. I don't and won't trust you. You haven't even managed to qualify as someone who is not a flagrantly dangerous imbecile, let alone someone I would ever trust. And I sure as $#@! don't trust you to determine what is or is not better where I, or my family is concerned.

    Do you trust anyone else, What about those that will vote against you and vote to limit your rights? Do you trust me?



    Where is "here?" What right do you have to determine the rules of access to property that is not your own? I'll make it easy for you, the answer is: NONE.
    I pay taxes.

    Because I find it morally atrocious to support State violence against peaceful people, I am "falling on my sword?"
    Do you find people who violate the sovereignty of the nation, laws of states and cites, people who harm and burden the tax payers of this nation, who skew elections and house seat appropriation, and reduce the liberty of the American people "peaceful"?

    If you think it wrong to use force against these threats/criminals I have no idea what to tell you other then take your door off of your home and allow everyone to flood in and rob you.

    You think your "moral superiority will protect you from having your rights voted away? It wont.




    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Excellent.
    Now we are making headway.
    Voting is not a Right, nor is citizenship, education, or welfare.
    How these privileges are determined are through the legislative process.
    As I've said, the states should have the power to decide their own policies in regards to privileges, as determined by their people.
    Repeal the 14th. Repeal the 17th. It's cheaper than putting us all in a cage.
    No, its cheaper to build a wall, do you really think we could repeal such things with as many takers we have imported? LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
    "They're" not the ones arguing that they have a right to rule over anyone. You are. And stop pretending like you're talking about a group of violent criminals breaking into your home and assaulting you. You're the only aggressively violent one in this equation, so far as I can tell.
    No, they do as they vote for the hardest left candidate. If you vote for leftist, you vote to rule over others (usually after you disarm them)

    They violate our laws, break into our nation, burden our taxpayers and victimize our citizens, skewing our elections/house seat placement and you think people like me who want the laws enforced are aggressive one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Like all crusading statists, he must have enemies in which to wage a war against. But he doesn't understand that war is the health of the state.
    You do not understand Immigration is the Viagra of the state.

  20. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    It's a good thing our rights and wealth are so well protected while we whites are still the majority. Sieg Heil!
    If you think it is bad now, can you think how bad it will should we not longer be the majority? Do you want to live like Whites in South Africa?

  21. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    If you think it is bad now, can you think how bad it will should we not longer be the majority? Do you want to live like Whites in South Africa?
    Do you think millions of armed folks are going to submit to living like whites in South Africa?

  22. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    If you think it is bad now, can you think how bad it will should we not longer be the majority? Do you want to live like Whites in South Africa?
    White people are only pure anarchists. Black people are all Communists.

  23. #292

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    White people are only pure anarchists. Black people are all Communists.
    That's a very collectivist statement to make.

  24. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Do you think millions of armed folks are going to submit to living like whites in South Africa?
    No, that is a saving grace, that and the collapse will happen before whites are outnumbered, the welfare system will crash, and die off might happen. This all assumes a pandemic does not happen thanks to antibiotic resistant strain growing rapidly.

    You had best hope we are not out numbered...Truly the 2nd Amendment will be of even greatest value then.
    Last edited by AmericanSpartan; 01-05-2016 at 01:39 PM.

  25. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by CocaCola View Post
    That's a very collectivist statement to make.

    Find me a black anarchists/black nationalists that supports capitalism.

  26. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Find me a black anarchists/black nationalists that supports capitalism.
    jmdrake?

  27. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Find me a black anarchists/black nationalists that supports capitalism.
    It's impossible. If you have any other color skin than white, you can't believe in the free market.

  28. #297

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    It's impossible. If you have any other color skin than white, you can't believe in the free market.
    You're a racist.

    Thomas Sowell would definitely disagree with you.

  29. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocaCola View Post
    You're a racist.

    Thomas Sowell would definitely disagree with you.
    You can't sense the sarcasm in my posts?

  30. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    I pay taxes.
    So? You're forced to, just like the rest of us. Paying taxes doesn't give you, nor anyone else any additional rights beyond those already possessed by virtue of being human. That you pay taxes means approximately $#@! all in this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Do you find people who violate the sovereignty of the nation, laws of states and cites, people who harm and burden the tax payers of this nation, who skew elections and house seat appropriation, and reduce the liberty of the American people "peaceful"?
    $#@!s I give about national sovereignty? Zero. Let me make this clear. I hate the State. I find it to be an abomination. It is the single greatest enemy to liberty to ever exist, and moreover it has no right to exist. It is entirely and absolutely illegitimate.

    Immigrants do not "harm taxpayers." The State forces people to pay taxes through institutionalized violence. The State has established the system of representative democracy that allows others to vote to rationalize State-imposed violence on others. That you want to blame the State's processes and actions on immigrants whom you can't help be collectivize is to reject the reality of the situation and to engage in intellectual bankruptcy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    If you think it wrong to use force against these threats/criminals I have no idea what to tell you other then take your door off of your home and allow everyone to flood in and rob you.
    The State is robbing me, not immigrants. If the State redistributes the money it takes from me to immigrants, I still blame the State. That you do not is just evidence of your own absurdity.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    You think your "moral superiority will protect you from having your rights voted away? It wont.
    Of course not. The State is the one that infringes on rights, not "immigrants." Moral superiority doesn't protect my rights, but it does help me identify who or what is actually violating them. Perhaps you should try integrating some morality into your own perspective, rather than promoting aggressive, institutionalized violence against innocents.


    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    No, they do as they vote for the hardest left candidate. If you vote for leftist, you vote to rule over others (usually after you disarm them)
    You can't celebrate your statist system and then turn around and cry foul when other interests use the very same processes you celebrate, gleefully participate in, and wish to preserve in ways that you don't agree with. And so the hilarity ensues--your argument has now basically devolved into "they don't vote in a way I approve of!"

    Now perhaps you see the absurdity of the State's system of "voting?"

    And why should they vote with you, anyway? You're here promoting aggressive violence against them for simply existing in a particular region like some blithering maniac.


    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    They violate our laws, break into our nation, burden our taxpayers and victimize our citizens, skewing our elections/house seat placement
    Collectivize more. Also, "we" do all of that to each other. What the $#@! is your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    you think people like me who want the laws enforced are aggressive one?
    Yes. You are the aggressive ones. Your promote aggressive, institutionalized violence by proxy.

    Yours is the same sort that thought runaway slaves were in the wrong, because they broke the law. Yours is the same sort that thinks people who refuse to pay taxes are in the wrong, because they break the law. Yours is the same sort that thinks people who possess a certain type of vegetation should be locked in a cage, because they broke the law. And so on, and so forth.

    Yours is the sort that is among the enemies of liberty.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard

  31. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    You can't sense the sarcasm in my posts?
    You don't sense it in mine?

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