Seeking feedback on a graphic

[jekluc]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for kindly welcoming me to the group. I wondered if anyone would like to give me feedback on this proposed graphic I have created summarizing the history of US entanglement in the Middle East. I'm open to any suggestions for improvement.

I'm thinking it could be posted on social media for educational purposes to spread understanding. It could have mistakes, omissions, etc. I'm not an expert, just an educated person. But it does seem to me that almost everything has its roots (directly or indirectly) in U.S. support for Israel, and the graphic reflects that.

[luctor-et-emergo]

I'm not entirely sure if the US was already a staunch supporter of Israel in 1947. IIRC it took some time for this relationship to develop.

[jekluc]

A fair point to look into.

[specsaregood]

Who is your audience? And are you looking to change minds or just start $#@!?

[thoughtomator]

He's just looking to start $#@!. Blaming everything on Israel is the simpleton's view of the US history of meddling in the Middle East.

For example, our overthrow of Iran's democracy and installation of the Shah had zero, zilch, squat to do with Israel (and everything to do with the company now known as BP), but you would get a completely different impression from his graphic.

1956 is also rather inconvenient for this narrative, as is the fact that Saddam Hussein's primary enemy was Iran and that he was in power in the first place because the US supported his coup.

I knew when this person showed up yesterday that there was $#@!-stirring in progress - his first post was a complete tell. I wonder what the real purpose of this is.

[dannno]

He's just looking to start $#@!. Blaming everything on Israel is the simpleton's view of the US history of meddling in the Middle East.

For example, our overthrow of Iran's democracy and installation of the Shah had zero, zilch, squat to do with Israel (and everything to do with the company now known as BP), but you would get a completely different impression from his graphic.

1956 is also rather inconvenient for this narrative, as is the fact that Saddam Hussein's primary enemy was Iran and that he was in power in the first place because the US supported his coup.

I knew when this person showed up yesterday that there was $#@!-stirring in progress - his first post was a complete tell. I wonder what the real purpose of this is.

C'mon, he ain't anywhere near max, or some others we have had here

[phill4paul]

I wonder what the real purpose of this is.

Miscommunifiscation?

[Chester Copperpot]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for kindly welcoming me to the group. I wondered if anyone would like to give me feedback on this proposed graphic I have created summarizing the history of US entanglement in the Middle East. I'm open to any suggestions for improvement.

I'm thinking it could be posted on social media for educational purposes to spread understanding. It could have mistakes, omissions, etc. I'm not an expert, just an educated person. But it does seem to me that almost everything has its roots (directly or indirectly) in U.S. support for Israel, and the graphic reflects that.

Main critique here is that you sound like an anti-Israel activist with an agenda youre trying to push rather than communicate historical facts.. Iran 1953 is an example.. You dont mention any of the real economic issues that were the cause for that and if I were reading this I would stop right there because I can see youre not credible on your facts.

Also I found the color red you use to be a bit harsh for my eyes to look at.. Would recommend a softer, pastel-like hue of red or pink instead.

[Chester Copperpot]

He's just looking to start $#@!. Blaming everything on Israel is the simpleton's view of the US history of meddling in the Middle East.

For example, our overthrow of Iran's democracy and installation of the Shah had zero, zilch, squat to do with Israel (and everything to do with the company now known as BP), but you would get a completely different impression from his graphic.

1956 is also rather inconvenient for this narrative, as is the fact that Saddam Hussein's primary enemy was Iran and that he was in power in the first place because the US supported his coup.

I knew when this person showed up yesterday that there was $#@!-stirring in progress - his first post was a complete tell. I wonder what the real purpose of this is.

+1

[Miss Annie]

Who is your audience? And are you looking to change minds or just start $#@!?

He's just looking to start $#@!. Blaming everything on Israel is the simpleton's view of the US history of meddling in the Middle East.

For example, our overthrow of Iran's democracy and installation of the Shah had zero, zilch, squat to do with Israel (and everything to do with the company now known as BP), but you would get a completely different impression from his graphic.

1956 is also rather inconvenient for this narrative, as is the fact that Saddam Hussein's primary enemy was Iran and that he was in power in the first place because the US supported his coup.

I knew when this person showed up yesterday that there was $#@!-stirring in progress - his first post was a complete tell. I wonder what the real purpose of this is.

Main critique here is that you sound like an anti-Israel activist with an agenda youre trying to push rather than communicate historical facts.. Iran 1953 is an example.. You dont mention any of the real economic issues that were the cause for that and if I were reading this I would stop right there because I can see youre not credible on your facts.

Also I found the color red you use to be a bit harsh for my eyes to look at.. Would recommend a softer, pastel-like hue of red or pink instead.

!!!!! + for all!

[dannno]

The way I see it is the elite who own BP and wanted the oil in the Middle East had long planned to create Israel as a western anchor point in the region that they could use as an excuse to exert broader control. These same elite may have even fomented, invested and encouraged Hitler's rise to power and the Holocaust as a way to create a need for Israel's existence and as an excuse to perpetuate it. So the graphic in the OP isn't entirely incorrect, but it is a bit too focused and lacks some detail in the surrounding arrangements.

Certainly Israel and its supporters have been a huge component and driver of our foreign policy for decades.

[jekluc]

Thanks for the constructive criticisms, and I look forward to more. As for the attacks on my honesty, I clearly can't prove that I'm an honest person via a Web forum; one has to develop personal relationships for that. So I don't really know how to use those attacks to improve the graphic, though I would of course restate that I fairly represented my motivations and views (the latter always open to change) in the OP.

[Dr.3D]

!!!!! + for all!

Yes, I agree....

[luctor-et-emergo]

Thanks for the constructive criticisms, and I look forward to more. As for the attacks on my honesty, I clearly can't prove that I'm an honest person via a Web forum; one has to develop personal relationships for that. So I don't really know how to use those attacks to improve the graphic, though I would of course restate that I fairly represented my motivations and views (the latter always open to change) in the OP.

Well it might help if you wouldn't put the emphasis on Israel so much. Israel obviously had NOTHING to do with the operation AJAX. Absolutely nothing. The US certainly did.

Now when Israel first declared independence, the US was not happy about that for the most part. Read your history.

Also, without responding to the other texts in the graphic, IIRC Bin Laden's main problem with US foreign policy was that there were bases in his 'holyland' of Saudi Arabia.

[thoughtomator]

Thanks for the constructive criticisms, and I look forward to more. As for the attacks on my honesty, I clearly can't prove that I'm an honest person via a Web forum; one has to develop personal relationships for that. So I don't really know how to use those attacks to improve the graphic, though I would of course restate that I fairly represented my motivations and views (the latter always open to change) in the OP.

It's not your honesty, it's your accuracy and clear intent to make Israel the focus of your criticism regardless of what the truth may be.

Obsessing about Israel and Jews - pro or con - is a plague on the Internet. Whatever reasonable discussions there may to be had get drowned out by monomaniacs. Don't be one of them.

[dannno]

Well it might help if you wouldn't put the emphasis on Israel so much. Israel obviously had NOTHING to do with the operation AJAX. Absolutely nothing. The US certainly did.

I think they had something to do with it, but it was in a broader context and certainly not the primary motivation.

[asurfaholic]

I thought 9/11 happened because they hate us for our freedom

???

[jekluc]

Well it might help if you wouldn't put the emphasis on Israel so much. Israel obviously had NOTHING to do with the operation AJAX. Absolutely nothing. The US certainly did.

The overall sentiment is clearly the same as the one firing up several other posters, and may be correct. I am open to reconsideration here. I don't know much about Operation AJAX.

Now when Israel first declared independence, the US was not happy about that for the most part. Read your history.

A 1948 statement by Truman on the subject is reproduced here. Of course not everyone was on board with Truman's support (which may not have even been sincere), nonetheless he was president and this was apparently his public position.

Also, without responding to the other texts in the graphic, IIRC Bin Laden's main problem with US foreign policy was that there were bases in his 'holyland' of Saudi Arabia.

Bin Laden's 2002 "letter to America," reproduced here, lists "You attacked us in Palestine" as his first grievance, Item 1a. This may be just a matter of chronological ordering, although I'm not sure the rest of the letter follows such ordering.

None of this is to say I'm wedded to relevant areas of the graphic as they are, I'm just making a few observations.

I thought 9/11 happened because they hate us for our freedom???

Lol

[FindLiberty]

It's interesting looking back a few thousand years... way WAY before the US (there are a few maps in the video around 13:00)

Communications took a long time and those battles easily lasted hundreds of years because of slow dial-up internet connections.

[devil21]

The way I see it is the elite who own BP and wanted the oil in the Middle East had long planned to create Israel as a western anchor point in the region that they could use as an excuse to exert broader control. These same elite may have even fomented, invested and encouraged Hitler's rise to power and the Holocaust as a way to create a need for Israel's existence and as an excuse to perpetuate it. So the graphic in the OP isn't entirely incorrect, but it is a bit too focused and lacks some detail in the surrounding arrangements.

Certainly Israel and its supporters have been a huge component and driver of our foreign policy for decades.

Truth....but you and I both found graphics like op's to be informative many moons ago.

The video above this post looks like more divide and conquer tactics though. There's $#@!ty people claiming various religions for their goals, always have been, and they often work together. No religion is void of $#@!ty people.

[JohnCollins]

The ouster of Gaddafi had nothing to do with Israel. He was a vocal foe of Israel in the last century, but since then he collaborated with them and stated he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in the Levant. He even had recognition of Israel on the table when he was taken out. The main countries lobbying for his removal were France and Britain.