Women In Combat: An Issue Of Rights?

[jct74]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOidtGNTZ8

Recently Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter announced that all military jobs would be open to women, including the most dangerous combat jobs. Some have hailed it as a victory for equal rights and are even calling for women to be eligible for the draft. Are they missing the point?

[klamath]

Right to die...

[Anti Federalist]

I don't care what the current PC Zeitgeist is, and the Grrl Power SJWs can huff and puff all they want, I will continue to maintain that it is the sign of sick society that sends young women into the meat grinder of frontline combat.

[wizardwatson]

I don't care what the current PC Zeitgeist is, and the Grrl Power SJWs can huff and puff all they want, I will continue to maintain that it is the sign of sick society that sends young women into the meat grinder of frontline combat.

If they want to, I don't think we have a moral argument against it in todays climate of feminism. I'm sure there's a woman out there somewhere who would call you a white knight privileged sexist for even suggesting such a thing.

But I've been in the military and I can tell you most of the fresh meat is looking for a job or some college money. My sister and brother were among those. My sister in fact used to be an MP but they put her on prison guard duty for her active duty drills and she quit due to stress and joined supply.

What worries me is now women who score low on the ASVAB (or whatever the equivalent is these days) will have few options other than combat roles even though they, like their male counterparts, aren't really wanting to go to war or fight for country but are instead simply in need of work.

EDIT: I also joined for college money. I learned after having to do pushups though, that when your drill seargant asks you why you joined, you don't say, "For college money, Drill Seargant!" FYI to new recruits.

[Cabal]

I don't care what the current PC Zeitgeist is, and the Grrl Power SJWs can huff and puff all they want, I will continue to maintain that it is the sign of sick society that sends young women into the meat grinder of frontline combat.

It's the sign of a sick society that sends anyone into the meat grinder of frontline combat.

[Ronin Truth]

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- Albert Einstein

[navy-vet]

If they want to, I don't think we have a moral argument against it in todays climate of feminism. I'm sure there's a woman out there somewhere who would call you a white knight privileged sexist for even suggesting such a thing.

But I've been in the military and I can tell you most of the fresh meat is looking for a job or some college money. My sister and brother were among those. My sister in fact used to be an MP but they put her on prison guard duty for her active duty drills and she quit due to stress and joined supply.

What worries me is now women who score low on the ASVAB (or whatever the equivalent is these days) will have few options other than combat roles even though they, like their male counterparts, aren't really wanting to go to war or fight for country but are instead simply in need of work.

EDIT: I also joined for college money. I learned after having to do pushups though, that when your drill seargant asks you why you joined, you don't say, "For college money, Drill Seargant!" FYI to new recruits.

And if you go in to reap the benefits, and then violate your oath when called upon, you are a thief and a scoundrel and need to finish your tour in Portsmouth or Leavenworth. IMHO

[navy-vet]

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- Albert Einstein

I doubt very much that he said that. I agree that "murder", which I define in a different context than killing here, under the cloak of war, is wrong.
Killing in self defense however is not.

[wizardwatson]

And if you go in to reap the benefits, and then violate your oath when called upon, you are a thief and a scoundrel and need to finish your tour in Portsmouth or Leavenworth. IMHO

Well, I actually deserted so I didn't get the college money anyway.

We weren't at war so pretty much they just out-process you if you do that. Plus, my MOS was Health Physics Technician, and 99% of them work in VA hospitals sitting behind a computer most of the day. That MOS actually only had one field-deployable unit that operated the TAML. I forget what it stood for but basically it was a tank-like vehicle that could drive into nuclear disaster areas to assess radioactivity and take samples.

I actually didn't recite the oath all the way. It was against my religion, even back then at 18, to swear to God that I would do anything. Even though I wasn't Christian back then.

[navy-vet]

Well, I actually deserted so I didn't get the college money anyway.

We weren't at war so pretty much they just out-process you if you do that. Plus, my MOS was Health Physics Technician, and 99% of them work in VA hospitals sitting behind a computer most of the day. That MOS actually only had one field-deployable unit that operated the TAML. I forget what it stood for but basically it was a tank-like vehicle that could drive into nuclear disaster areas to assess radioactivity and take samples.

I actually didn't recite the oath all the way. It was against my religion, even back then at 18, to swear to God that I would do anything. Even though I wasn't Christian back then.

My younger brother, whom I love dearly, deserted from the Army after he learned that they weren't ever going to put him in combat. In fact, he went AWOL three times from the First Air Cav at Fort Hood, (radio tech), and the CO told my mom, that if he would just sit it out for a few weeks, he would get him a medical. But no, he kept booking.... He didn't have to go in in the first place, but insisted. He had been struck by a freight train going 45 mph, on foot when he was 13. four months in ICU, 21 pints of blood, massive trauma. A miracle. Anyway, he suffered and still does from some serious mental disorders, including schizophrenia. Oh, and after he got out, he went to work for Amtrak, go figure....he later retired from being a foreman in the overhaul yard at Wilmington Del. on a disability, with a fat pension. He got a general discharge I think...so he can own a gun if he wants.

[wizardwatson]

My younger brother, whom I love dearly, deserted from the Army after he learned that they weren't ever going to put him in combat. In fact, he went AWOL three times from the First Air Cav at Fort Hood, (radio tech), and the CO told my mom, that if he would just sit it out for a few weeks, he would get him a medical. But no, he kept booking.... He didn't have to go in in the first place, but insisted. He had been struck by a freight train going 45 mph, on foot when he was 13. four months in ICU, 21 pints of blood, massive trauma. A miracle. Anyway, he suffered and still does from some serious mental disorders, including schizophrenia. Oh, and after he got out, he went to work for Amtrak, go figure....he later retired from being a foreman in the overhaul yard at Wilmington Del. on a disability, with a fat pension. He got a general discharge I think...so he can own a gun if he wants.

Well, in retrospect, now that I'm a diagnosed bipolar (7 years ago at age 29), family likes to lump that event at age 20 with that. But the truth is I was "radicalized" about the economic impact of Y2K by one Gary North who still writes for the prestigious Lew Rockwell Blog which you may have heard of. Of course he's buried all evidence he could of his fear-mongering to make money, but I remember and I'm sure many others who were similarly convinced as well also remember.

But as far as process, it wasn't all that dramatic. I was actually honest with my commanders and told them I wanted out and why (mistake, should have said I was gay or something). So they put me on military's version of house arrest and basically attempted to "fear" me into getting it out of my head. I had a seargant who basically told me that if you go AWOL and you're gone over 30 days, you're considered deserter. Then once you get arrested (I just turned myself in after 30 days) they send you to Ft. Sill where they have a special section for deserters and they essentially give you the option to get out with "Other than honorable" which doesn't take any of your rights away.

A weird place by the way that facility. They make you where a uniform while you're there but there like discards and they aren't fitted to you. So when we'd go to the dining facility to eat, it was quite obvious who we were. A disgraceful rag tag group with civilian haircuts and old uniforms that don't fit. Plus you meet weird guys. One guy had been AWOL for like 30 years. If you don't commit a crime they don't "come looking for you". Not worth there time. There's a warrant out for you but if you never get arrested or pulled over you just stay floating out there.

Anyway, they call it a "for the good of the army discharge".

The weird thing about me is I was living with a girlfriend in El Paso at the time and after they out-process you they mail you your discharge papers to sign. From the facility all you get is an "excess leave form". You basically stay in the facility until they do a background check to make sure you didn't commit any crimes while you were gone.

I still have that form. But because I moved right after that, first to a different apartment and then to a different state, I never actually signed the papers. For the first few years, I was afraid to "bug" them about not getting my discharge papers but eventually I wanted it for records and for jobs that required it. I ended up calling all my duty stations, the St. Louis military records office, and even had my brother who was in the military (and still is) to try to help and even he couldn't find out who had it or if they even have a record on me.

I'm assuming because I was a loose end they just blacklisted my file. So I don't actually have a DD214 and technically speaking I'm still on excess leave, which is the last thing I signed. Of course my 8 year contract has expired so I doubt it matters much, but I'm am sort of in limbo with my military history. I've never laid eyes on my DD214 if it even exists.

[navy-vet]

That's strange...for some reason I began thinking about Catch 22....
If I were in your position I would consider filing an appeal for a change in discharge status on the grounds of a mental disorder. Even if you aren't nuts. What have you got to loose? They might even send you a check for backpay or something....
I told my brother he ought to do that, and get his discharge changed, they do some crazy stuff. And, he was ill, wanting to go to Nam and all...
Anyway, he's a worn out alcoholic and don't care and don't need the medical benefits....

[wizardwatson]

That's strange...for some reason I began thinking about Catch 22....
If I were in your position I would consider filing an appeal for a change in discharge status on the grounds of a mental disorder. Even if you aren't nuts. What have you got to loose? They might even send you a check for backpay or something....
I told my brother he ought to do that, and get his discharge changed, they do some crazy stuff. And, he was ill, wanting to go to Nam and all...
Anyway, he's a worn out alcoholic and don't care and don't need the medical benefits....

Meh, it's there move now. I tried to resolve it with them. There response is:

"We have no record of David Watson", essentially.

Plus, the only downside really is you likely won't work for the federal government anymore (I work for state government ironically). But even that's not true in my case probably since trying to prove I even have a military record is futile. I know they have records, because they confiscated part of my tax return to cover salary they paid me while AWOL. But "officially" they won't even acknowledge me.

Plus, appealing my discharge for the benefits seems shady to me. I don't need it and I'd consider that a slight to vets who aren't getting what they deserve in benefits (some I know personally) who have served and did what they agreed to.

Now, if they come after me, for some weird reason, then I'm certainly going to use whatever I have to to get them off my back. I never liked the military, though that isn't really why I left. A lot of $#@!s who should never be in positions of leadership in my opinion.

[navy-vet]

Meh, it's there move now. I tried to resolve it with them. There response is:

"We have no record of David Watson", essentially.

Plus, the only downside really is you likely won't work for the federal government anymore (I work for state government ironically). But even that's not true in my case probably since trying to prove I even have a military record is futile. I know they have records, because they confiscated part of my tax return to cover salary they paid me while AWOL. But "officially" they won't even acknowledge me.

Plus, appealing my discharge for the benefits seems shady to me. I don't need it and I'd consider that a slight to vets who aren't getting what they deserve in benefits (some I know personally) who have served and did what they agreed to.

Now, if they come after me, for some weird reason, then I'm certainly going to use whatever I have to to get them off my back. I never liked the military, though that isn't really why I left. A lot of $#@!s who should never be in positions of leadership in my opinion.

Yeah, I can respect that. You seem to have matured now and since it isn't anything that can hurt you, I guess it's best to let it go. Maybe it is something that happened in a previous existence....
As for the catch 22 thing, I still don't know why it came to mind. Your situation hasn't any commonality with what the book is about outside of some irony....

[osan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOidtGNTZ8

The sadly astonishing aspect of this issue is that there are so many women who are sufficiently stupid to actually want to go into combat. They are so mentally poisoned with the PC nonsense that is feminism that they have lost their basic sense. I don't like the notion of men in combat, much less women. However, women THAT stupid should be culled such that their genes are not propagated to perpetuate generations of equally and perhaps even more stupid issue. By all means it is their right to go into combat if they so choose. That they would tells me everything I need to know to sleep well at night regardless of the fact that they are being blown to bits or raped to death by enemy combatants.

At some point, stupidity must be stamped back to manageable proportions, or the race of men will die out. Perhaps it should.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't care what the current PC Zeitgeist is, and the Grrl Power SJWs can huff and puff all they want, I will continue to maintain that it is the sign of sick society that sends young women into the meat grinder of frontline combat.

I don't care if I'm called nasty names in -reps...This^^ FTW. +rep

[Christian Liberty]

If they want to, I don't think we have a moral argument against it in todays climate of feminism. I'm sure there's a woman out there somewhere who would call you a white knight privileged sexist for even suggesting such a thing.

But I've been in the military and I can tell you most of the fresh meat is looking for a job or some college money. My sister and brother were among those. My sister in fact used to be an MP but they put her on prison guard duty for her active duty drills and she quit due to stress and joined supply.

What worries me is now women who score low on the ASVAB (or whatever the equivalent is these days) will have few options other than combat roles even though they, like their male counterparts, aren't really wanting to go to war or fight for country but are instead simply in need of work.

EDIT: I also joined for college money. I learned after having to do pushups though, that when your drill seargant asks you why you joined, you don't say, "For college money, Drill Seargant!" FYI to new recruits.

The very idea that morals are considered "relative" to a given society or climate is the sign of a dead society. What filth. Libertarianism and statism need to die in a hole together.

[Occam's Banana]

The very idea that morals are considered "relative" to a given society or climate is the sign of a dead society. What filth. Libertarianism and statism need to die in a hole together.

Wow. You got that one in just in time for the 2015 Inane Non Sequitur of the Year award.

[osan]

The very idea that morals are considered "relative" to a given society or climate is the sign of a dead society. What filth. Libertarianism and statism need to die in a hole together.

I'm not ever sure I can parse out a coherent meaning from this. Care to elucidate?

[Working Poor]

It is beginning to look like the only rights the state will allow is abortion, gay marriage and, to be state owned war fodder,

[osan]

It is beginning to look like the only rights the state will allow is abortion, gay marriage and, to be state owned war fodder,

Did you just figure this out?

Actually, I am surprised Theye have not yet added hooker duty, starting at age 2. Day's still young, I suppose.

[kcchiefs6465]

And if you go in to reap the benefits, and then violate your oath when called upon, you are a thief and a scoundrel and need to finish your tour in Portsmouth or Leavenworth. IMHO

If you murder people because of Congressional whim (presidential, rather) what punishment would you see as fitting? Leavenworth?