Harry Browne: The Immigration Scam

[AmericanSpartan]

Just who is being the useful idiot? Step back and look at the hysteria. It doesn't remind you of the lead up to the Iraq war?

Non sequitur. and both parties supported that action of madness.

You open border supporters are useful idiots you support the importation of tens of millions of people that will vote against you and you think keeping them out and not being out voted is some how "tyrannical" or "socialist".

You are total rubes.

[Zippyjuan]

Yeah who would have thought standing up for the interests of the American people would make you popular with them?

We have been over this, they still effect elections, local, state, and Federal as well as the number of house seats. Your denial does not change this fact.

Examples of elections that illegal immigrants have impacted the outcome of? Your claiming it does not make it a fact. Prove the fact.

I presented evidence earlier someplace where Arizona investigated voting fraud. They found two illegal immigrants who tried to vote in a ten year period.

In recent years, twice as many states have been LOSING illegal immigrant populations than gaining them including California. Overall, illegal immigrant population in the US is down by a million people since 2007.

States that Grew or Declined

The seven states where unauthorized immigrant populations grew from 2009 to 2012 were Florida, Idaho, Maryland, Nebraska, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Virginia.

In two of these states, Maryland and Virginia, the state-level trends also broke with the national-level trend for 2007 to 2012. During those years, the number of unauthorized immigrants fell in the U.S. overall, but continued to grow in both Maryland and Virginia. In Maryland, the estimated number of unauthorized immigrants grew to 250,000 in 2012, compared with 220,000 in 2007. In Virginia, the estimated number grew to 275,000 in 2012 from 250,000 in 2007. (In the adjacent District of Columbia, the 2012 population of 20,000 was not statistically different from the totals in 2009 or 2007.)

The 14 states where populations of unauthorized immigrants decreased from 2009 to 2012 were Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Mexico, New York and Oregon.

http://cis.org/ImpactImmigrationOnCo...Representation

[Zippyjuan]

Have you seen the polls? The American people support by large margins immigration reduction.

I have. Most recent Gallop results: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

Thinking now about immigrants- that is, people who come from other countries to live here in the United States, in your view, should immigration be kept at its present level, increased, or decreased?

Present level: 40%
Increased: 25%
Decreased: 34%
No Opinion: 1%

One third says they support immigration reduction. I would not call that a "large margin". "Large margin" is a big majority. The largest margin is fine with current levels. And those in the "decrease" category have been declining over time.

[Sola_Fide]

Have you seen the polls? The American people support by large margins immigration reduction.

Have you seen the polls? By large margin the American people support all kinds of tyranny. They love their chains, like you do.

[AmericanSpartan]

Because immigration is the 9/11 of this election cycle. The Republican party is being drummed up for another war. This time it's against brown people from another country.

Remember it only took 19 immigrants to give us the Patriot Act.

[AmericanSpartan]

Have you seen the polls? By large margin the American people support all kinds of tyranny. They love their chains, like you do.

Thats right, change the subject and call anyone who acts in their defense "supporters of tyranny".

[AmericanSpartan]

I have. Most recent Gallop results: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx



Present level: 40%
Increased: 25%
Decreased: 34%
No Opinion: 1%

One third says they support immigration reduction. I would not call that a "large margin". "Large margin" is a big majority. The largest margin is fine with current levels. And those in the "decrease" category have been declining over time.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/28/pe...d-immigration/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/171962/de...-increase.aspx

https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/pew-...ation-increase

http://www.hngn.com/articles/128677/...ed-leveled.htm

[AmericanSpartan]

Examples of elections that illegal immigrants have impacted the outcome of? Your claiming it does not make it a fact. Prove the fact.

Look how mass immigration lead to the election of Al Franken, as well as the number of house seats as blue states are havens for illegals as well as counting legal immigrants in the census.

http://cis.org/ImpactImmigrationOnCo...Representation

http://cis.org/gang-of-eight-bill-shifts-house-seats

I presented evidence earlier someplace where Arizona investigated voting fraud. They found two illegal immigrants who tried to vote in a ten year period.

So that is the number you are ok with? Never mind the house seats that are stolen from other states?

In recent years, twice as many states have been LOSING illegal immigrant populations than gaining them including California. Overall, illegal immigrant population in the US is down by a million people since 2007.

If you are basing your numbers of the "apprehension" numbers then you are mistaken. More over just wait until the rule of law is restored, and they start to self deport...Trust me, the exodus will be epic.

Nothing wrong with shedding this burden and restoring America to its rightful owners.

[danda]

The mods are awol, so I found a solution.

This message is hidden because AmericanSpartan is on your ignore list.

ah, much better!

[Sola_Fide]

The mods are awol, so I found a solution.



ah, much better!

I think the mods want this here, which is even more concerning.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[AmericanSpartan]

I think the mods want this here, which is even more concerning.

You mean mods do not shut down others who disagree with them? How is that concerning?

[erowe1]

Yeah, he was a good guy. But, the date that he wrote this particular article is germane, because of the huge increase in illegal immigration since then.

For him separating some immigration as illegal, over against other immigration that is legal, would have been totally irrelevant. But either way, the percent of the population of the US that is immigrants has gone from 11% to 13% over the past 15 years. And the percent that is illegal immigrants has gone from 2.9% to 3.5%. Either way, I don't see why that's supposed to be some dramatic change that would make anyone change their views.

Over the same period of time you're talking about I myself have gone from very much in favor of federal regulation of immigration to very much against it. Ron Paul was by far the biggest influence in that change. And I would wager that the same could be said by many people at this website.

[Sola_Fide]

You mean mods do not shut down others who disagree with them? How is that concerning?

No, I'm saying they allow you to post your racist, nationalistic socialism here. That's concerning to me as someone who values freedom and wants the "liberty movement" to remain about liberty.

[Sola_Fide]

The market economy is about competition; there are winners and losers. That's how we advance; the more efficient replace the less efficient.

Q. Do you oppose a free labor market domestically?

For instance, if some Floridians were moving to Georgia and putting the natives out of work, would you want the government to intervene to protect the latter's jobs?

If not, why?

By the way, this question was never answered.

[Tywysog Cymru]

Because immigration is the issue that decides all others. If we do not reduce it (including legal) well we are going to be out voted in our nation by imported ringers.

Immigration didn't destroy freedom in late 19th century. That was a time in which both parties actually supported limited government. The immigrants supported the Democrats, which was sometimes more pro-freedom than the Republicans (1904 being a clear example) Not to mention that immigrants were generally anti-prohibition and often opposed WWI.

You do understand people come from nations other the Mexico, right? So that is red herring.

I've never heard you complain about Canadian immigrants.

[AmericanSpartan]

For him separating some immigration as illegal, over against other immigration that is legal, would have been totally irrelevant. But either way, the percent of the population of the US that is immigrants has gone from 11% to 13% over the past 15 years. And the percent that is illegal immigrants has gone from 2.9% to 3.5%. Either way, I don't see why that's supposed to be some dramatic change that would make anyone change their views.

Because they growth rate, and the cost/burden it places on the American people, nation, economy, and our standard of living.

Over the same period of time you're talking about I myself have gone from very much in favor of federal regulation of immigration to very much against it. Ron Paul was by far the biggest influence in that change. And I would wager that the same could be said by many people at this website.

Well we all cant be right, now can we?

The math has proven that mass immigration is by and large harmful to the American nation, culture, people, our interests, wages, elections and future.

[AmericanSpartan]

No, I'm saying they allow you to post your racist, nationalistic socialism here. That's concerning to me as someone who values freedom and wants the "liberty movement" to remain about liberty.

Nothing "racist" or "socialist" about my posts. I thought you supported the 1st Amendment?

And what will happen when tens of millions of people who are imported for the sole reason of voting against you, vote against you and crush the Liberty Movement?

[AmericanSpartan]

By the way, this question was never answered.

Yeah it was, learn to read.

[Sola_Fide]

Nothing "racist" or "socialist" about my posts. I thought you supported the 1st Amendment?

And what will happen when tens of millions of people who are imported for the sole reason of voting against you, vote against you and crush the Liberty Movement?

What percentage of white Americans would be considered Ron Paul Republicans?

And what has voting done to protect liberty in this country?

[cajuncocoa]

Nothing "racist" or "socialist" about my posts. I thought you supported the 1st Amendment?

And what will happen when tens of millions of people who are imported for the sole reason of voting against you, vote against you and crush the Liberty Movement?

What does this have to do with the 1st Amendment?

[cajuncocoa]

You mean mods do not shut down others who disagree with them? How is that concerning?

What's concerning is the dog-whistle racism prevalent in the posts of those who oppose immigration is most likely posted intentionally to embarrass Rand by Trump supporters. But mention S-E-X and everything gets whisked off to Hot Topics.

[AmericanSpartan]

Immigration didn't destroy freedom in late 19th century. That was a time in which both parties actually supported limited government. The immigrants supported the Democrats, which was sometimes more pro-freedom than the Republicans (1904 being a clear example) Not to mention that immigrants were generally anti-prohibition and often opposed WWI.

No, it did cause a great deal of political harm, namely it imported millions of future voters that supported and gave a massive boost to the Progressive movement that gave us the Federal Reserve, the 16th, 17th, and 18th Amendment, then FDR and all of his asshatery after the crash of 29.

We only took people from Europe, sent back around 1/4 of all who came, and above all did not have a welfare system then. You do under this is not the 1920s anymore, right?


You do know they supported the party that get us into WW1 and lead the charge for Prohibition, right? So the end result is what matters most, not their intent.

I've never heard you complain about Canadian immigrants.

Great point! Why is that? Maybe because we do not have tens of millions of them flooding our nation, reducing our wages, committing countless acts of violence against the American people, changing our demographics and skewing our elections present and future to favor the Democratic Party to the point we become a one party nation.

That is why.

[AmericanSpartan]

What percentage of white Americans would be considered Ron Paul Republicans?

And what has voting done to protect liberty in this country?

How many Taylor Swift Clones and fit in my bed? I mean that question is just as valid.

It is stopped the lose of Liberty at the local, state, and someone Federal Level depending one the issues, if we did not take the Congress back in 2010 we would have had an assault weapons ban rammed through after Sandy Hook, and amnesty would have been rammed though.

[AmericanSpartan]

What does this have to do with the 1st Amendment?

He wants the mods to shut down people that disagree with him.

[Sola_Fide]

How many Taylor Swift Clones and fit in my bed? I mean that question is just as valid.

It is stopped the lose of Liberty at the local, state, and someone Federal Level depending one the issues, if we did not take the Congress back in 2010 we would have had an assault weapons ban rammed through after Sandy Hook, and amnesty would have been rammed though.

Hold on.

You said that immigrants were going to come here and vote to take away our liberty.

How many white Americans have voted to protect liberty over the last 100 years?

[AmericanSpartan]

What's concerning is the dog-whistle racism prevalent in the posts of those who oppose immigration is most likely posted intentionally to embarrass Rand by Trump supporters. But mention S-E-X and everything gets whisked off to Hot Topics.

Yeah that is the problem with people like you and Sola, you will find racism anywhere, not because it exists but because that is what you want to find and see.

More over the facts have disproved the claims of open border supporters or immigrationsionst, all you have left is slander and name calling.

“Personal insults are the last refuge of the intellectual coward.” ~Rabbi Shmuley Boteach.

“Personal insults are the last resort of exhausted minds”. ~Pat Buchanan

Insults are the last resort of insecure people trying to appear confident in their weak position. ~Pastor Rick Warren

Insults are the last refuge of the out-argued. ~Unknown

Rand is great on some issues, but he does not support immigration reduction, and without that, all gains we make will be erased as the left imports new welfare voters by the millions.

It will not matter if Rand Paul or (to a lesser extent) Ted Cruz became president, sure, he would cut spending and taxes and make America better for a little while. But because he wouldn't build the wall, wouldn't deport, and wouldn't end anchor-baby insanity, or reduce legal immigration in 10 years (or even less) everything they did or would do will simply be wiped out by the Democrats, who would now win every election because Texas, Colorado, Nevada and Florida are all blue states thanks to mass immigration.

He could abolish the ATF and Congress could throw out every Gun Law since the NFA it will just be overturned in a few years in the face of immigration lead demographic changes which give the Dems one party control.

For this reason, (to quote Metallica) nothing else matters if the immigration issue is lost. If the GOP loses the immigration issue for 8 more years, the GOP will lose Florida, Colorado and Nevada permanently and will thus lose the presidency permanently.

[cajuncocoa]

What does this have to do with the 1st Amendment?

He wants the mods to shut down people that disagree with him.

Please tell me you're not this ignorant about the Constitution.

[AmericanSpartan]

Hold on.

You said that immigrants were going to come here and vote to take away our liberty.

How many white Americans have voted to protect liberty over the last 100 years?

Yes, they are and will if we allow them to stay/immigrate. If we remove them/prevent them from coming the problem is prevented.

Not enough, that being said inaction of the past is not justification for inaction in the present.

[AmericanSpartan]

Please tell me you're not this ignorant about the Constitution.

No, I just proving that he does not care about the Freedom of Speech of other people, namely of others that disagree with him.