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Thread: Harry Browne: The Immigration Scam

  1. #1

    Harry Browne: The Immigration Scam

    http://www.wnd.com/2001/09/10726/



    Arguments about immigration will always be with us. But it’s important to understand that the real issue isn’t freedom for immigrants – it’s your freedom.

    Immigrants will continue to stream into this country, legally or illegally, so long as there’s a Welcome Wagon waiting at the border – offering free education, free health care, free welfare and a free lunch. We need to put the Welcome Wagon out of business, so only people looking for freedom will want to come here.

    Until then, no law, no policy, no border patrol will stop the flood of illegals.

    Whose freedom is at stake?

    Meanwhile, new laws to limit immigration will affect you considerably. You may think those laws will keep America pure, but they will succeed only in taking more of your liberty.

    Think about it. How will the government root out people who are in this country illegally? By checking their papers, of course.

    But how do they know whose papers to check? They don’t. So they’ll have to check everyone’s papers – including yours.

    That means more invasions of your privacy, higher taxes, more corruption in law enforcement. The police will be allowed to stop you at will and ask for your identity card – and to search your property without a warrant, checking your car or home to see if you’re harboring illegals. Your employer will have to take more of the money available for wages and divert it to filling out forms and complying with bureaucratic inspections. The red tape also will add to the prices of the things you buy.

    And all the while, the people you thought you were keeping out will continue to show up to tend your yard and wash dishes at the local restaurants.

    Jobs

    Why should you be afraid of immigrants?

    Is it because you fear losing your job to one?

    You could lose your job as easily to an American who’s more talented, willing to work harder, or willing to work for less. And if your company can’t hire the best, most cost-effective employees, it could lose customers to competitors and go out of business.

    Your security depends most on your willingness to do the best job possible. Until you learn that, you’ll live in fear of all sorts of competition.

    Jobs and higher wages don’t come from restricting the supply of labor – either through immigration laws, labor unions, or government regulation. Better jobs and higher wages come from investments in tools, machines, training, and technology that make workers more productive.

    The more a worker can produce, the more revenue to his employer. Part of that increased revenue always finds its way into the employee’s paycheck because the employer doesn’t want to lose well-trained workers to competitors.

    Immigrants don’t hog the jobs. Their presence increases the demand for labor, and they help to meet that demand.

    Culture


    Are you afraid American culture will be diluted by too many foreigners among us? Don’t be.

    We no longer have a unique American culture. Our nation has become more and more like the rest of the world – where everyone’s life is run by a government rulebook.

    The non-political elements of our culture – such as music, sports, and fast food – have already spread to the rest of the world. And our political policies – regarding government, taxes, and individual freedom – are already duplicates of the Old World. Our politicians tell us how we should live our lives, imposing suffocating taxes and regulation, and our individual liberties are always sacrificed for the benefit of the Fatherland.

    More immigrants would want to become Americanized if America were the distinctive country it once was.

    Futility of laws

    The arguments about immigration overlook one critical fact: No matter what the politicians say or do, the immigrants keep coming. The volume hasn’t changed noticeably in decades.

    The real changes that occur are the impositions on your liberty. And that’s what you should be concerned about.

    Every new policy will, in one way or another, further reduce your liberties, reduce the percentage of your earnings you can keep, reduce the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

    On the other hand, ending the pretense of closed borders and tight immigration would lower your taxes, restore some of your privacy, reduce the costs of many products and services you buy and increase the demand for your services.

    Freedom is the issue


    Political promises to keep America free of the great unwashed masses are just one more political scam – a subterfuge by which to steal more of your freedom.

    And trying to limit immigration is an admission that the welfare state is a failure.

    It is a confession that America is no longer the most prosperous country in the world – no longer a country so big, so free, and so open-handed that it can accommodate anyone in the world who wants to come here and work to improve his life.

    A free and prosperous society has no fear of anyone entering it. But a welfare state is scared to death of every poor person who tries to get in and every rich person who tries to get out.



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  3. #2
    ^^^^^
    It should be noted that Browne's article was written fourteen years ago.

    =======================

    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal
    By Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
    November 10, 2015

    Obviously, in a pure open borders system, the Western welfare states would simply be overrun by foreigners seeking tax dollars. As libertarians, we should of course celebrate the demise of the welfare state. But to expect a sudden devotion to laissez faire to be the likely outcome of a collapse in the welfare state is to indulge in naïveté of an especially preposterous kind.

    Can we conclude that an immigrant should be considered “invited” by the mere fact that he has been hired by an employer? No, says Hans, because the employer does not assume the full cost associated with his new employee. The employer partially externalizes the costs of that employee on the taxpaying public:

    Equipped with a work permit, the immigrant is allowed to make free use of every public facility: roads, parks, hospitals, schools, and no landlord, businessman, or private associate is permitted to discriminate against him as regards housing, employment, accommodation, and association. That is, the immigrant comes invited with a substantial fringe benefits package paid for not (or only partially) by the immigrant employer (who allegedly has extended the invitation), but by other domestic proprietors as taxpayers who had no say in the invitation whatsoever.

    These migrations, in short, are not market outcomes. They would not occur on a free market. What we are witnessing are examples of subsidized movement. Libertarians defending these mass migrations as if they were market phenomena are only helping to discredit and undermine the true free market.

    Moreover, as Hans points out, the “free immigration” position is not analogous to free trade, as some libertarians have erroneously claimed. In the case of goods being traded from one place to another, there is always and necessarily a willing recipient. The same is not true for “free immigration.”


    Much more here: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/...vate-property/
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    It should be noted that Browne's article was written fourteen years ago.

    Who cares? Like most of everything that Harry Browne said, it's very applicable today. Harry Browne and Ron Paul are the only candidates for office in my lifetime that I was truly proud of supporting.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Who cares? Like most of everything that Harry Browne said, it's very applicable today. Harry Browne and Ron Paul are the only candidates for office in my lifetime that I was truly proud of supporting.
    Yeah, he was a good guy. But, the date that he wrote this particular article is germane, because of the huge increase in illegal immigration since then. I wonder if he would hold the same opinion today. I know my own sure changed.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yeah, he was a good guy. But, the date that he wrote this particular article is germane, because of the huge increase in illegal immigration since then. I wonder if he would hold the same opinion today. I know my own sure changed.
    Don't change! That's like saying because of 9/11 we need to give up more of our liberties in this new dangerous world. The principles of freedom never change.

  7. #6
    Why should you be afraid of immigrants?
    A recent immigrant said it best: "too many people".

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    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yeah, he was a good guy. But, the date that he wrote this particular article is germane, because of the huge increase in illegal immigration since then. I wonder if he would hold the same opinion today. I know my own sure changed.
    I would wage that Harry would have modified his position by now, just like Rockwell has.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I would wage that Harry would have modified his position by now, just like Rockwell has.
    Lew hasn't changed. He's always been a Roman Catholic culture warrior like Bill O'Reilly.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    A recent immigrant said it best: "too many people".

    Rural China, for instance, is sparsely populated.


    What a beautiful picture, everyone wants freedom.
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

  12. #10
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-19-2018 at 07:49 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I'm curious as to which planks in the OP that you think that Harry would have conceded due to what's transpired in the last fourteen years. From my perspective, the crux of his piece seems to be:

    He put it upfront; first. Everything else seems to be calming talk to put irrational fears about jobs and culture to rest. If the power to deal with the preservation of jobs and culture is to be ceded to government mandate, then what does it say about the occupational skills of the United Statsian workforce and its culture that they require government to protect it.

    His article was published on 05SEP2001 - 6 days prior to 9/11. At that point, the TSA didn't exist. The Patriot Act was but a dystopian nightmare that would wake Harry up at night - and he would write to warn us about embracing it. I personally think that the events of the past 14 years would have made him more resolute in his positions.
    +rep

  14. #12
    Spot on Harry, spot on.

    And as others have said, there's no reason to think he's changed his views in the last 14 years. None of his arguments depend on a particular volume of immigration.

    Immigration controls will always require more policing, whatever the volume of immigration.

    Economic arguments against immigration are always fallacious, no matter the volume of immigration.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Who cares? Like most of everything that Harry Browne said, it's very applicable today. Harry Browne and Ron Paul are the only candidates for office in my lifetime that I was truly proud of supporting.
    I need to edit this post and add Thomas Massie to this list.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    A recent immigrant said it best: "too many people".

    The pollution has nothing to do with overpopulation, and everything to do with a failure to respect property rights.

    ...and, incidentally, China's experiment in population reduction has backfired tremendously: a huge age and gender imbalance that's going to cause major problems.

    Do you think that chaos is due to there not being enough physical space to build a railroad large enough to carry them comfortably, or not enough capital to build said railroad?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Total crap, all of it.

    Your security depends most on your willingness to do the best job possible. Until you learn that, you’ll live in fear of all sorts of competition.
    You can not out compete someone willing to work for less.

    Are you afraid American culture will be diluted by too many foreigners among us? Don’t be.

    We no longer have a unique American culture. Our nation has become more and more like the rest of the world – where everyone’s life is run by a government rulebook.
    Do nothing as the damage has been done, great mind set.


    Political promises to keep America free of the great unwashed masses are just one more political scam – a subterfuge by which to steal more of your freedom.

    And trying to limit immigration is an admission that the welfare state is a failure.

    It is a confession that America is no longer the most prosperous country in the world – no longer a country so big, so free, and so open-handed that it can accommodate anyone in the world who wants to come here and work to improve his life.

    A free and prosperous society has no fear of anyone entering it. But a welfare state is scared to death of every poor person who tries to get in and every rich person who tries to get out.
    Letting in tens of millions of people that will vote for marxist will destroy freedom.

    This morons is more proof that mass immigration supports are running of out time, energy and excuses.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yeah, he was a good guy. But, the date that he wrote this particular article is germane, because of the huge increase in illegal immigration since then. I wonder if he would hold the same opinion today. I know my own sure changed.
    Fun fact, it was published 5 days before 9/11 as well. "A free and prosperous society has no fear of anyone entering it. " What perfect timing and choice of words.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Don't change! That's like saying because of 9/11 we need to give up more of our liberties in this new dangerous world. The principles of freedom never change.
    Or we could reduce immigration as to keep out people that would commit such attacks! We can protect freedom by keeping out people that would cause such attacks.

    The principles of self preservation never change.

  21. #18
    Hey look! The loathsome nationalistic racist showed up!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    You can not out compete someone willing to work for less.
    "You could lose your job as easily to an American who’s more talented, willing to work harder, or willing to work for less. And if your company can’t hire the best, most cost-effective employees, it could lose customers to competitors and go out of business.

    Your security depends most on your willingness to do the best job possible. Until you learn that, you’ll live in fear of all sorts of competition.

    Jobs and higher wages don’t come from restricting the supply of labor – either through immigration laws, labor unions, or government regulation. Better jobs and higher wages come from investments in tools, machines, training, and technology that make workers more productive.

    The more a worker can produce, the more revenue to his employer. Part of that increased revenue always finds its way into the employee’s paycheck because the employer doesn’t want to lose well-trained workers to competitors.

    Immigrants don’t hog the jobs. Their presence increases the demand for labor, and they help to meet that demand. "

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I would wage that Harry would have modified his position by now, just like Rockwell has.
    Some people just dont learn.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by nayjevin View Post
    Rural China, for instance, is sparsely populated.



    What a beautiful picture, everyone wants freedom.
    Have you seen how they vote? They do not want freedom. If they did they would not vote the same failure they did back home.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    I'm curious as to which planks in the OP that you think that Harry would have conceded due to what's transpired in the last fourteen years. From my perspective, the crux of his piece seems to be:

    He put it upfront; first. Everything else seems to be calming talk to put irrational fears about jobs and culture to rest. If the power to deal with the preservation of jobs and culture is to be ceded to government mandate, then what does it say about the occupational skills of the United Statsian workforce and its culture that they require government to protect it.

    His article was published on 05SEP2001 - 6 days prior to 9/11. At that point, the TSA didn't exist. The Patriot Act was but a dystopian nightmare that would wake Harry up at night - and he would write to warn us about embracing it. I personally think that the events of the past 14 years would have made him more resolute in his positions.
    Its ironic, as 9/11 was caused by people we let in under "student visas", IE Immigrants. And this happened right after.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Fun fact, it was published 5 days before 9/11 as well. "A free and prosperous society has no fear of anyone entering it. " What perfect timing and choice of words.
    How did American immigration controls stop Saudi Arabian terrorists from entering the US and killing people?

    Why did they want to kill Americans in the first place?

    If you wanted to be completely "safe", you could hand over all your freedom to Baal and he can put cameras in your bedrooms and monitor your entire life. But then how truly "safe" are you?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Total crap, all of it.
    You might feel more at home here.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Its ironic, as 9/11 was caused by people we let in under "student visas", IE Immigrants. And this happened right after.
    Was Timothy McVeigh an immigrant?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You might feel more at home here.
    I think he came from Stormfront.org.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Hey look! The loathsome nationalistic racist showed up!
    Hey look a name caller who can not make a point!

    "You could lose your job as easily to an American who’s more talented, willing to work harder, or willing to work for less. And if your company can’t hire the best, most cost-effective employees, it could lose customers to competitors and go out of business.

    Your security depends most on your willingness to do the best job possible. Until you learn that, you’ll live in fear of all sorts of competition.
    So being willing to work for slave wages as their will also be people willing to undercut your wages?

    Jobs and higher wages don’t come from restricting the supply of labor – either through immigration laws, labor unions, or government regulation. Better jobs and higher wages come from investments in tools, machines, training, and technology that make workers more productive.
    Totally wrong. The more labor you have, the value of that labor will be reduced.

    Look at any field from entry, to blue to white collar to STEM.

    The more a worker can produce, the more revenue to his employer. Part of that increased revenue always finds its way into the employee’s paycheck because the employer doesn’t want to lose well-trained workers to competitors.


    Immigrants don’t hog the jobs. Their presence increases the demand for labor, and they help to meet that demand. "
    [/QUOTE]

    Also busted

    data here. http://www.vdare.com/articles/nation...straight-month

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Was Timothy McVeigh an immigrant?
    Fifth generation.

    See, they never assimilate.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Hey look a name caller who can not make a point!



    So being willing to work for slave wages as their will also be people willing to undercut your wages?



    Totally wrong. The more labor you have, the value of that labor will be reduced.

    Look at any field from entry, to blue to white collar to STEM.




    Hey RPF's. This is the guy you let post hundreds of statist, racist posts without even a warning. This is a guy who doesn't even agree with this simple statement:

    "Jobs and higher wages don’t come from restricting the supply of labor – either through immigration laws, labor unions, or government regulation. Better jobs and higher wages come from investments in tools, machines, training, and technology that make workers more productive."

    The moderators of this board should be ashamed.
    Last edited by Sola_Fide; 11-28-2015 at 07:15 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Was Timothy McVeigh an immigrant?
    So that is your fall back position? Well every nation has its criminals and terrorist, we do not need any more.

    More over they out did McVeigh by like 30 times and their actions gave us the Patriot Act, so way to keep the effects and damage from the attack in mind.

    But hey we must have immigration at all costs right! Never mind if we import people that vote way our rights, freedoms, or commit crime and terrorist attacks that give the statist/leftist any excuse to reduce our rights and suppress the Liberty Movement, as long as you can signal and get that high induced by self flagellation, that is what matters most, right?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post

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