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Thread: The wisdom of federalism, our Constitution’s plan!

  1. #1

    The wisdom of federalism, our Constitution’s plan!

    Unfortunately, the vast majority of today’s eligible voters refuse to use their power to promote the common defense and general welfare of the United States. Instead, they sell their vote to dishonest politicians running in federal elections who bribe them with promises to use federal power for matters which were intentionally left within the reserved powers of the States. And the allowance of our federal government to assume powers intentionally reserved to the States has opened the door to the creation of countless factious groups who, in essence, sell their federal vote for "free" federal government cheese as a priority, while the common defense and general welfare of the United States takes a back seat during federal elections.


    Today, the uncertainty among the vast majority of voters with regard to the constitutionally assigned duties between federal and state politicians running for office allows corrupted state politicians to blame federal politicians for local matters, while federal politicians blame political opponents for local concerns which were intentionally left under State Jurisdiction.


    Now, just imagine if the blurring between the assigned duties of State and Federal politicians were ended and federal and state politicians had to run their political campaigns on their constitutionally assigned duties as summarized in Federalist Paper No. 45:


    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.


    The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."



    One of the great advantages of federalism is the clear distinction which is drawn between the assigned duties of those running for a federal or state political office, and voters knowing where the buck stops when the general welfare of the United States is put in peril, and when State public servants neglect the general welfare of their particular state. Under these circumstances accountability is made much clearer in both federal and state elections __ an accountability which all dishonest politicians fear with a passion.


    JWK



    “He has erected a multitude of new offices , and sent hither swarms of officers, to harass our people, and eat out their substance” ___Declaration of Independence



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  3. #2
    Well, this is saddening. No comments on the merits of federalism, our Constitution's plan, and how ignoring federalism has worked to our nation's ruin.


    JWK

  4. #3
    Yep, just too bad that the Federalists were really just nationalists and the Anti Federalists, supporters of the AoC and opposed to the CONstitution, were in fact, the real federalists.

    Confused yet?
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 11-30-2015 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Yep, just too bad the the Federalists were really just nationalists and the AntiFederalists were the real federalists. Confused yet?

    no. not at all.

    A "Federation" is a league or a union of existing "states". it does NOT create the "state" .
    as so many here are want to claim. repeatedly I might add.
    Thomas Jefferson was also a Federalist.

    "Jefferson was sworn in by Chief Justice John Marshall at the new Capitol in Washington, D.C. on March 4, 1801. In contrast to his predecessors, Jefferson exhibited a dislike of formal etiquette; he arrived alone on horseback without escort and dressed in plain attire.[109] His inaugural address struck a note of reconciliation, declaring, "We have been called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists." Thomas Jefferson.

    +rep and bump for the OP!
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  6. #5

    The virtues of federalism

    In regard to the virtues of federalism, the following article makes a number of excellent points.

    Obamacare Proves the Virtues of Federalism

    The article begins:

    ”No issue in recent years has polarized Americans as much as Obamacare. It produced a party-line vote in Congress, a near-fatal court battle, a revolt by states that refused to run exchanges or expand Medicaid, dozens of House votes to repeal it and, now, a bungled launch that could be its undoing. It's a barroom brawl that never ends.”

    JWK

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.___ Tenth Amendment

  7. #6
    Thomas Jefferson described the Tenth Amendment as “the foundation of the Constitution” and added, “to take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn … is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition.”

  8. #7
    Want commentary? Let us see if I can vomit forth something marginally better than a hairball.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Unfortunately, the vast majority of today’s eligible voters refuse to use their power to promote the common defense and general welfare of the United States.
    The out-of-left-field nature of the assertion aside, how do you propose they do as you imply they ought when virtually all choices open to their voting are corrupt, ignorant, or otherwise not up to the tasks you list? Add to that the long term deleterious effects of our public schooling that have turned the average man into a functional idiot in such matters, as well as the endless smoke and mirrors chicanery that billows from the MSM sphincter and is it any wonder we are at this sorry pass? More to the point, what would you suggest incapable people do, listen to your suggestions and obey without question? What else is there in a world that truth and intelligence abandoned long ago?

    Instead, they sell their vote to dishonest politicians running in federal elections who bribe them with promises to use federal power for matters which were intentionally left within the reserved powers of the States.
    Assuming this is true, then again I must ask what exactly is your point? Do you think there is a magic bullet that, once pumped into the colon of the average mental midget of endlessly corrupt character, he is going to see the light and we will then experience some great awakening into a new Renaissance here in AmeriKa?

    I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic. I am at a serious loss to divine what it is that you are thinking.

    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those [powers] which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.
    There's a money-shot if ever there was one - and right in the bitch's eye, no less. Numerous and indefinite? There's Madison or whomever showing his truer colors. The powers of the States should be no more than that of the feds because their role is really no different, even if the envelope of application be marginally broader. The ONLY valid purpose of government, if we even grant that such a thing even exists, is the guaranty and protection of the rights of men. PERIOD. That is neither "numerous" nor indefinite. It is, rather, singular and most very definite. I will have to mark that one FAIL.

    The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."
    Further damning the author is this gem of catch-all bull$#@!, averring what is tantamount to infinite powers to $#@! with the people. It is a statement that talks a lot without saying anything specific, save to provide carte blanche to state governments to put their people over the wood in any damned manner they may see as fitting. To read this this and NOT walk away shaking one's head with the realization that with the Constitution the people of this land were delivered into the hands of slavery, is to evade the obvious or be incapable of perceiving it. Kudos to the author, $#@!ing prick that was.

    One of the great advantages of federalism is the clear distinction which is drawn between the assigned duties of those running for a federal or state political office
    BWAAAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...

    Oh, you were serious? Please. Take a look around you; a CAREFUL one; then come back to us with something a bit better rigged for reality.

    and voters knowing where the buck stops when the general welfare of the United States is put in peril, and when State public servants neglect the general welfare of their particular state. Under these circumstances accountability is made much clearer in both federal and state elections __ an accountability which all dishonest politicians fear with a passion.
    You need to go to reality school for remedial lessons.

    The very Federalist you quote gives one all one needs know in order to apprehend the truer nature of that into which this land was turned. Those men had the opportunity to do something spectacularly singular for the first time, perhaps in all the history of human Empire. In the end, they gave us this.

    Über-ultra-hyper-mondo-hella-moomoo-FAIL.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Want commentary? Let us see if I can vomit forth something marginally better than a hairball.

    .

    Not from an a-hole!


    I decided to go no further.


    JWK
    Last edited by johnwk; 11-30-2015 at 05:43 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Not from an a-hole!


    I decided to go no further.


    JWK
    all he promised was a hairball... and that was all we got.

    his response was COMPLETELY off topic and a clear example of hijacking a sincere and reasonably posted thread.
    to make matters worse. he also included direct personal insults.
    I REALLY am going to report this thread. I have seen enough sincere posters ran off by these jokers.
    that it is probably time to reconsider my paid subscription.
    that is the bottom green bar. btw.
    NO. he is not a "supporting member. in word or in deed.
    (he is just REALLY good at vomiting words)(HVACTechs are used to that )

    I am NOT mad. or even pissed off. I am numb to this BS.
    IF I do decide to cancel my paid membership..
    this does NOT mean that I am leaving.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Want commentary? Let us see if I can vomit forth something marginally better than a hairball.



    The out-of-left-field nature of the assertion aside, how do you propose they do as you imply they ought when virtually all choices open to their voting are corrupt, ignorant, or otherwise not up to the tasks you list? Add to that the long term deleterious effects of our public schooling that have turned the average man into a functional idiot in such matters, as well as the endless smoke and mirrors chicanery that billows from the MSM sphincter and is it any wonder we are at this sorry pass? More to the point, what would you suggest incapable people do, listen to your suggestions and obey without question? What else is there in a world that truth and intelligence abandoned long ago?



    Assuming this is true, then again I must ask what exactly is your point? Do you think there is a magic bullet that, once pumped into the colon of the average mental midget of endlessly corrupt character, he is going to see the light and we will then experience some great awakening into a new Renaissance here in AmeriKa?

    I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic. I am at a serious loss to divine what it is that you are thinking.



    There's a money-shot if ever there was one - and right in the bitch's eye, no less. Numerous and indefinite? There's Madison or whomever showing his truer colors. The powers of the States should be no more than that of the feds because their role is really no different, even if the envelope of application be marginally broader. The ONLY valid purpose of government, if we even grant that such a thing even exists, is the guaranty and protection of the rights of men. PERIOD. That is neither "numerous" nor indefinite. It is, rather, singular and most very definite. I will have to mark that one FAIL.



    Further damning the author is this gem of catch-all bull$#@!, averring what is tantamount to infinite powers to $#@! with the people. It is a statement that talks a lot without saying anything specific, save to provide carte blanche to state governments to put their people over the wood in any damned manner they may see as fitting. To read this this and NOT walk away shaking one's head with the realization that with the Constitution the people of this land were delivered into the hands of slavery, is to evade the obvious or be incapable of perceiving it. Kudos to the author, $#@!ing prick that was.



    BWAAAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...

    Oh, you were serious? Please. Take a look around you; a CAREFUL one; then come back to us with something a bit better rigged for reality.



    You need to go to reality school for remedial lessons.

    The very Federalist you quote gives one all one needs know in order to apprehend the truer nature of that into which this land was turned. Those men had the opportunity to do something spectacularly singular for the first time, perhaps in all the history of human Empire. In the end, they gave us this.

    Über-ultra-hyper-mondo-hella-moomoo-FAIL.

    sir, the OP was attempting to have a reasonable and intelligent conversation about the MEANING of the word. "Federation.

    fed·er·a·tion
    ˌfedəˈrāSH(ə)n/
    noun
    noun: federation; plural noun: federations

    a group of states with a central government but independence in internal affairs.
    "should the world be governed by a Pax Americana or by a democratic UN federation?"
    an organization or group within which smaller divisions have some degree of internal autonomy.
    "the best tag team in the World Wrestling Federation"
    synonyms: confederation, confederacy, league; More
    combination, alliance, coalition, union, syndicate, guild, consortium, partnership, cooperative, association, amalgamation;
    informalfederacy
    "a federation of thirteen states"
    the action of forming states or organizations into a single group with centralized control.
    "a first step in the federation of Europe"

    as you can see. there are DIFFERENT types of Federations.
    at first, the Founders chose a CONfederation. over time, they moved to and refined a proper federation.

    however, there is very little point in trying to have a civil or a... gasp! intellectual. discussion with you.
    the original document depended on an educated and involved populace.
    yes, it is true. our collective grandfathers and great grandfathers let us down.

    some of us seek to pick up the torch of Liberty that they dropped..
    and run with it!!!

    most people today. are to ignorant and brainwashed to understand our cause...
    others.
    (like yourfuckingself)
    are too stupid.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Yep, just too bad that the Federalists were really just nationalists and the Anti Federalists, supporters of the AoC and opposed to the CONstitution, were in fact, the real federalists.

    Confused yet?
    The Federalists were counter revolutionaries.

    They realized how earth shattering the political ramifications of the DoI and a successful secession by the former colonies were.

    Had to put things sort of right again.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-30-2015 at 07:55 PM.

  14. #12
    What does it matter what the founders may have wanted?

    The fact is they wrote a charter of government that has led directly to the tyranny we now find ourselves under: taxed into oblivion to support a global empire, living under the dictates and mandates of a King/President and under more surveillance than the former East Germany.

    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post

    sir, the OP was attempting to have a reasonable and intelligent conversation about the MEANING of the word. "Federation.

    fed·er·a·tion
    ˌfedəˈrāSH(ə)n/
    noun
    noun: federation; plural noun: federations

    a group of states with a central government but independence in internal affairs.
    "should the world be governed by a Pax Americana or by a democratic UN federation?"
    an organization or group within which smaller divisions have some degree of internal autonomy.
    "the best tag team in the World Wrestling Federation"
    synonyms: confederation, confederacy, league; More
    combination, alliance, coalition, union, syndicate, guild, consortium, partnership, cooperative, association, amalgamation;
    informalfederacy
    "a federation of thirteen states"
    the action of forming states or organizations into a single group with centralized control.
    "a first step in the federation of Europe"

    as you can see. there are DIFFERENT types of Federations.
    at first, the Founders chose a CONfederation. over time, they moved to and refined a proper federation.

    however, there is very little point in trying to have a civil or a... gasp! intellectual. discussion with you.
    the original document depended on an educated and involved populace.
    yes, it is true. our collective grandfathers and great grandfathers let us down.

    some of us seek to pick up the torch of Liberty that they dropped..
    and run with it!!!

    most people today. are to ignorant and brainwashed to understand our cause...
    others.
    (like yourfuckingself)
    are too stupid.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The Federalists were counter revolutionaries.

    They realized how earth shattering the political ramifications of the DoI and a successful secession by the former colonies were.

    Had to put things sort of right again.
    so, what is the remedy?

    continuous revolution?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What does it matter what the founders may have wanted?
    you sound like Hillary dude...

    restoring knowledge..
    of the "Original Intent"
    could spark a revolution. would that make you happy?

    https://youtu.be/T81xsEyfl3c
    Last edited by HVACTech; 11-30-2015 at 08:07 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    so, what is the remedy?

    continuous revolution?
    No, not continuous, but TJ was in favor of it every few generations or so.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    you sound like Hillary dude...

    restoring knowledge..
    of the "Original Intent"
    could spark a revolution. would that make you happy?

    https://youtu.be/T81xsEyfl3c
    Maybe it could, but I doubt it.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Maybe it could, but I doubt it.
    you have lost faith in the ability to educate the populace?
    or are they not worth educating?

    Osan DARES not try to describe to me. the meaning of..
    drum roll please...

    "Original Intent"

    these words. mere words mind you. are FAR and away.
    too big for poor ole Osan... poor dear... Osan.

    is Osan a "populace" person?
    is there still room at Danke's place?

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  21. #18
    I motion that this post be stickied or otherwise kept out of the webbernet Memory Hole. It is a most excellent dismantling of most of the extraordinarily ridiculous claims of classical Federalists and neo-Federalists.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Want commentary? Let us see if I can vomit forth something marginally better than a hairball.



    The out-of-left-field nature of the assertion aside, how do you propose they do as you imply they ought when virtually all choices open to their voting are corrupt, ignorant, or otherwise not up to the tasks you list? Add to that the long term deleterious effects of our public schooling that have turned the average man into a functional idiot in such matters, as well as the endless smoke and mirrors chicanery that billows from the MSM sphincter and is it any wonder we are at this sorry pass? More to the point, what would you suggest incapable people do, listen to your suggestions and obey without question? What else is there in a world that truth and intelligence abandoned long ago?



    Assuming this is true, then again I must ask what exactly is your point? Do you think there is a magic bullet that, once pumped into the colon of the average mental midget of endlessly corrupt character, he is going to see the light and we will then experience some great awakening into a new Renaissance here in AmeriKa?

    I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic. I am at a serious loss to divine what it is that you are thinking.



    There's a money-shot if ever there was one - and right in the bitch's eye, no less. Numerous and indefinite? There's Madison or whomever showing his truer colors. The powers of the States should be no more than that of the feds because their role is really no different, even if the envelope of application be marginally broader. The ONLY valid purpose of government, if we even grant that such a thing even exists, is the guaranty and protection of the rights of men. PERIOD. That is neither "numerous" nor indefinite. It is, rather, singular and most very definite. I will have to mark that one FAIL.



    Further damning the author is this gem of catch-all bull$#@!, averring what is tantamount to infinite powers to $#@! with the people. It is a statement that talks a lot without saying anything specific, save to provide carte blanche to state governments to put their people over the wood in any damned manner they may see as fitting. To read this this and NOT walk away shaking one's head with the realization that with the Constitution the people of this land were delivered into the hands of slavery, is to evade the obvious or be incapable of perceiving it. Kudos to the author, $#@!ing prick that was.



    BWAAAAAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...

    Oh, you were serious? Please. Take a look around you; a CAREFUL one; then come back to us with something a bit better rigged for reality.



    You need to go to reality school for remedial lessons.

    The very Federalist you quote gives one all one needs know in order to apprehend the truer nature of that into which this land was turned. Those men had the opportunity to do something spectacularly singular for the first time, perhaps in all the history of human Empire. In the end, they gave us this.

    Über-ultra-hyper-mondo-hella-moomoo-FAIL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Not from an a-hole!
    Firstly, the word is $#@!. If that is what you think of me, then you should be man enough to call it as you see it, rather than engaging in such attempts at half-measured expressions. It reminds me of people who use "n-word" in place of the real thing. This behavior does not become adults. Neither does your pejorative tone. I was quite explicit in my assurance to you that I meant no disrespect. It appears you are of a delicate nature in your ego and are unable to absorb any question to your narratives, no matter how gingerly they are put to you. You apparently took my response as an attack when I made it quite clear that I was attempting to understand your thought process. Or was it the fact that I pointed out the shortcomings of the passage you quoted from Federalist 45?

    I decided to go no further.

    Either you lie or you come to rushed judgments. If you judged me the $#@! based on the two lines you quoted, thereby deciding to go "no further", then I would say your response speaks for itself. If you did not, then it means you read further than you admit, making you a liar. Which is it?

    That aside, you asked for comments. I responded respectfully while pointing out some seemingly apparent problems with your assertions and asked you for clarification. You CHOSE to take my post as an offense, declaring me an $#@! in the process. That is your prerogative.

    We could have had an adult exchange with you making clear your views in the light of my questions. You chose the path of the ill-bred child. Your response brings "narcissist" to mind.

    PS: I also note that you neglected to address any of the points I made. Such can barely keep from issuing a certain odor.
    Last edited by osan; 11-30-2015 at 09:28 PM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I motion that this post be stickied or otherwise kept out of the webbernet Memory Hole. It is a most excellent dismantling of most of the extraordinarily ridiculous claims of classical Federalists and neo-Federalists.
    BRILLIANT!

    a powerplay by the colorful and.. everheavenlyboy34!

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Firstly, the word is $#@!. If that is what you think of me, then you should be man enough to call it as you see it, rather than engaging in such attempts at half-measured expressions. It reminds me of people who use "n-word" in place of the real thing. This behavior does not become adults. Neither does your pejorative tone. I was quite explicit in my assurance to you that I meant no disrespect. It appears you are of a delicate nature in your ego and are unable to absorb any question to your narratives, no matter how gingerly they are put to you. You apparently took my response as an attack when I made it quite clear that I was attempting to understand your thought process. Or was it the fact that I pointed out the shortcomings of the passage you quoted from Federalist 45?




    Either you lie or you come to rushed judgments. If you judged me the $#@! based on the two lines you quoted, thereby deciding to go "no further", then I would say your response speaks for itself. If you did not, then it means you read further than you admit, making you a liar. Which is it?

    That aside, you asked for comments. I responded respectfully while pointing out some seemingly apparent problems with your assertions and asked you for clarification. You CHOSE to take my post as an offense, declaring me an $#@! in the process. That is your prerogative.

    We could have had an adult exchange with you making clear your views in the light of my questions. You chose the path of the ill-bred child. Your response brings "narcissist" to mind.
    AWESOME!

    you avoided the entire discussion!
    and made it all personal!
    do I need to play sesame street with you?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    you have lost faith in the ability to educate the populace?
    or are they not worth educating?
    Both, at least this current crop of Boobus.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    so, what is the remedy?

    continuous revolution?
    It seems that some are comfortable with anarchy!


    JWK

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What does it matter what the founders may have wanted?

    The fact is they wrote a charter of government that has led directly to the tyranny ...
    Not true! The violation of our Constitution's provisions and its defined and limited powers by folks in government has led to the tyranny you mention!

    The defect is not in our Constitution. It is found in an unwillingness of the people to enforce their Constitution.


    JWK



    "The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)
    Last edited by johnwk; 12-01-2015 at 08:30 AM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Both, at least this current crop of Boobus.
    I don't get how you and some others on this board call people Boobus and then expect them to be receptive to your ideas. It's a self-perpetuating cycle- call someone Boobus and they will think you are an $#@! and disregard what you have to say, then you can say we're all $#@!ed because you can't get through to the Boobus.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    I don't get how you and some others on this board call people Boobus and then expect them to be receptive to your ideas. It's a self-perpetuating cycle- call someone Boobus and they will think you are an $#@! and disregard what you have to say, then you can say we're all $#@!ed because you can't get through to the Boobus.
    A very thoughtful post. Thank you!

    JWK

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Not true! The violation of our Constitution's provisions and its defined and limited powers by folks in government has led to the tyranny you mention!

    The defect is not in our Constitution. It is found in an unwillingness of the people to enforce their Constitution.
    This point could be argued from either side of the fence equally well.....

    Right now folks from a side you disagree with are making progress so instead of holding a system that permits said progress accountable you choose to blame people on the other side.

    This government is broken, it doesn't matter if you blame the constitution or the people.

    What matters is how one goes about fixing it.............Unless one wants to sit by and watch as government consumes itself.

    The idea that "If only the pendulum would swing my way." doesn't account for the cut it makes on each pass.......


  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Not true! The violation of our Constitution's provisions and its defined and limited powers by folks in government has led to the tyranny you mention!

    The defect is not in our Constitution. It is found in an unwillingness of the people to enforce their Constitution.


    JWK



    "The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)
    What year was it that "We The People" had the opportunity to vote on "our"(so-called) CONstitution?


    'Lysander Spooner once said that he believed "that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize." At the same time, he could not exonerate the Constitution, for it "has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." It is hard to argue with that.' -- Thomas E. Woods Jr

    "The Constitution would be a major improvement over what we have today. But we need to realize that the Constitution itself represented a major increase in government power over the Articles of Confederation, which would have served us quite well had it not been overthrown. I'm not impressed by the bunch that foisted the Constitution on us. They were really up to no good. We've all but forgotten that most everyone opposed it at the time. It only squeaked through once the Bill of Rights was tacked on. The Bill of Rights isn't perfect, but it at least had the advantage of spelling out what the government could not do. In a rather ingenious twist, even that has been perverted: it is now seen as a mandate for the federal government to tell lower orders of government what they cannot do, meaning that it ends up being a force for centralization. This is such a tragedy. If Patrick Henry could see what became of it, I'm sure he never would have tolerated it. The same might be true of Hamilton, for that matter. So long as we are talking about founding documents, the one that really deserves more attention is the Declaration of Independence. Now here is an inspiring document that shows us where we should go in the future!" -- Lew Rockwell

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    This point could be argued from either side of the fence equally well.....

    Right now folks from a side you disagree with are making progress so instead of holding a system that permits said progress accountable you choose to blame people on the other side.

    This government is broken, it doesn't matter if you blame the constitution or the people.

    What matters is how one goes about fixing it.............Unless one wants to sit by and watch as government consumes itself.

    The idea that "If only the pendulum would swing my way." doesn't account for the cut it makes on each pass.......
    are you saying, essentially. that the Constitution itself... did not prevent it's own usurpation.
    and that it should have, or it is unworthy. seriously?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    are you saying, essentially. that the Constitution itself... did not prevent it's own usurpation.
    and that it should have, or it is unworthy. seriously?
    In the sentence following what you highlighted I typed exactly what I meant;

    This government is broken, it doesn't matter if you blame the constitution or the people.
    Arguing over the cause is kind of pointless until the problem of being broken is resolved and arguing with a piece of paper that expresses dead man's ideas seems counterproductive when it's living breathing people who have broken the government.

    Even if no government is the desired outcome the existing one must be undone first, same with a different form or flavor, the existing has to go first.....

    The only reason to leave the existing government in place is if one honestly believes it's not broken beyond repair.

    The Constitution could either be accepted or rejected by other men, men who haven't broken a government yet....

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