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Thread: Ted Cruz sucks, but how to deal with inevitability

  1. #1

    Ted Cruz sucks, but how to deal with inevitability

    I don't like Cruz, I think he is a total charlatan who has stolen a lot of thunder, but for the sake of argument, lets assume he continues being the rank and file conservative choice. How should this be dealt with?

    Because frankly, even though we all harbor tremendous hopes for libertarianism this cycle, it is still young. We are still fighting the baby boomers, who are mostly scared old people who clutch their Rush Limbaugh tuned radios as they hear of the world closing in. We can't outnumber them.

    But lets be honest, they can't win either. Either Rubio gets nominated, in which case we are in a few more wars, and maybe the foreign policy lesson is relearnt, or Cruz wins the nom and gets destroyed, in which case the establishment will learn never to let another base candidate ever win again.

    And of course Hillary could win, in which case within 4 years the Supreme Court will be truly frightening.

    So, secretly, must we be Rubio fans? The Supreme Court might get an ok guy with Rubio (well, probably not, but I still like Roberts better than Ginsburg and you do too), we will fight some stupid wars, and neoconservatism will blow another wad while the youth get a little older and more libertarian. Then, we can nominate Amash?



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  3. #2
    What a $#@!ty first post. You didn't even bother to act like you're a Rand supporter before starting with the trolling. We're here to help Rand win so maybe you can assist or kindly f off.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  4. #3
    Ted Cruz is a lying, snake, fraud, who isn't even Constitutionally eligible to hold office of POTUS.
    Rand Paul or not at all.
    Any other candidate will be easily beaten by Hillary. If Rand doesn't get the nom; then maybe we'll have a chance in 2020.
    RVO˩UTION

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by notsure View Post
    Ted Cruz is a lying, snake, fraud, who isn't even Constitutionally eligible to hold office of POTUS.
    Rand Paul or not at all.
    Any other candidate will be easily beaten by Hillary. If Rand doesn't get the nom; then maybe we'll have a chance in 2020.
    If Rand doesn't win, we'll be lucky to ever see anything resembling a presidential election in this country again. Hillary becomes dictator of the global territory formerly known as the united States of America.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  6. #5
    Sticking with Rand unless he drops out, thank you. I'm glad we had this talk.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  7. #6
    Oh cut it out. I stand with Rand just like all of yall (maybe if libertarians werent so damn factional it would be easier - looking at you, Raimondo and Rockwell). Maybe I should spell it out. We gotta look at this project as a 20 year thing. Just like Ron was running a campaign based on making the base learn a few very important lessons, I think that work continues. And if Rand can somehow move into the 2nd tier, well thats great. I hope he wins. I would cut a few fingers off, but...

    I hate Rubio. I'm not going to support him in any vein. He is a smug no nothing. His foreign policy is terrible. Its just a hobsons choice. If not Paul, what best sets the liberty movement up? I don't think Cruz losing to Hillary gives us much.

  8. #7
    This is too early to be having this discussion.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WTLaw View Post
    Oh cut it out. I stand with Rand just like all of yall (maybe if libertarians werent so damn factional it would be easier - looking at you, Raimondo and Rockwell). Maybe I should spell it out. We gotta look at this project as a 20 year thing. Just like Ron was running a campaign based on making the base learn a few very important lessons, I think that work continues. And if Rand can somehow move into the 2nd tier, well thats great. I hope he wins. I would cut a few fingers off, but...

    I hate Rubio. I'm not going to support him in any vein. He is a smug no nothing. His foreign policy is terrible. Its just a hobsons choice. If not Paul, what best sets the liberty movement up? I don't think Cruz losing to Hillary gives us much.
    None of the other candidates helps set up the liberty movement. Especially not Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is no libertarian. Ted Cruz is nothing but a fraud; meant to disrupt the limited gov't, anti-establishment sentiment of the Tea Party.
    RVO˩UTION



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by notsure View Post
    Ted Cruz is a lying, snake, fraud, who isn't even Constitutionally eligible to hold office of POTUS.
    Rand Paul or not at all.
    Any other candidate will be easily beaten by Hillary. If Rand doesn't get the nom; then maybe we'll have a chance in 2020.

    I totally agree. I wont waste an once of time supporting anyone else. But, I'm saying...libertarians might be better off, paradoxically, if the GOP nominates another establishment clone than someone like Cruz who with just a couple minor libertarian aspects, will lose and hurt the brand (without offering a real libertarian choice in a general election). Then, Hillary. I've just had so many conversations lately with Cruz supporters, and jeez they depress me. Sorry guys. Didn't mean to bum yall out.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by notsure View Post
    None of the other candidates helps set up the liberty movement. Especially not Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is no libertarian. Ted Cruz is nothing but a fraud; meant to disrupt the limited gov't, anti-establishment sentiment of the Tea Party.

    A demonstrable failure of an establishment candidate might help. Then again, I was hoping more people would learn their lesson from Bush II and they didn't.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by WTLaw View Post
    I totally agree. I wont waste an once of time supporting anyone else. But, I'm saying...libertarians might be better off, paradoxically, if the GOP nominates another establishment clone than someone like Cruz who with just a couple minor libertarian aspects, will lose and hurt the brand (without offering a real libertarian choice in a general election). Then, Hillary. I've just had so many conversations lately with Cruz supporters, and jeez they depress me. Sorry guys. Didn't mean to bum yall out.
    The same thing was said both times Ron lost and the GOP brand is further in shambles. How many bad nominees does it take for libertarians to actually come out better off?
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    The same thing was said both times Ron lost and the GOP brand is further in shambles. How many bad nominees does it take for libertarians to actually come out better off?

    Its not a number of failures so much, but rather, we are waiting for the baby boom generation to well, no longer be that large of a demographic swath. And that is not now.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by WTLaw View Post
    Oh cut it out. I stand with Rand just like all of yall (maybe if libertarians werent so damn factional it would be easier - looking at you, Raimondo and Rockwell). Maybe I should spell it out. We gotta look at this project as a 20 year thing. Just like Ron was running a campaign based on making the base learn a few very important lessons, I think that work continues. And if Rand can somehow move into the 2nd tier, well thats great. I hope he wins. I would cut a few fingers off, but...
    This country doesn't have much more time, especially not another 12-20 years. The youngens are being indoctrinated into welcoming a fully socialist global government. The old folks that still remember true conservatism are literally dying. The middle class is disappearing and China and other foreigners are literally taking ownership of the assets that haven't already been outright stolen by bankers. The tracking grid is almost in place, cash and untrackable commerce are being banned. The police state is showing itself more and more out-in-the-open every day. There is no 20 year plan to restore a constitutional republic. It's pretty much now or never.

    I hate Rubio. I'm not going to support him in any vein. He is a smug no nothing. His foreign policy is terrible. Its just a hobsons choice. If not Paul, what best sets the liberty movement up? I don't think Cruz losing to Hillary gives us much.
    Nothing sets it up going forward. Everything except socialism, then followed by full blown communism, will be eradicated if Hillary is handed the Presidency. You should study up more on what the New World Order goal is and then you'll realize that it's much farther along than you probably realized.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by WTLaw View Post
    Its not a number of failures so much, but rather, we are waiting for the baby boom generation to well, no longer be that large of a demographic swath. And that is not now.
    The baby boomers will be on their way out, but by the time they are aged enough to get out of the voting population, the incoming young voters will be majority-nonwhite. If libertarians are giving up on old people now, we had better start working on hispanics and blacks.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    The baby boomers will be on their way out, but by the time they are aged enough to get out of the voting population, the incoming young voters will be majority-nonwhite. If libertarians are giving up on old people now, we had better start working on hispanics and blacks.
    Which Amash may help with. And Rand, too, has been trying to attract these people. All good things. But in order for America to have any chance, the Supreme cannot be deep blue. Yall know I am right on that one.

  18. #16
    Yeah, we need to get more conservative constitutionalists in there like John Roberts.



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  20. #17
    Cruz would get destroyed in the general election.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Yeah, we need to get more conservative constitutionalists in there like John Roberts.
    Uh yeah, he is really poor. But he is better than say Kagan. I mean if the lib justices would ever grant cert on an issue like the war powers of a sitting President, maybe. But they wont, they will vote in bloc. Meanwhile, a guy like Roberts may throw us a bone on cases like Citizens United, while cowering out of all the tough votes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    Cruz would get destroyed in the general election.
    Itd be nice if we could convince them of this truth.

  22. #19
    I think Cruz could beat Hillary but I hope Rand will be the nominee. If it comes down to the convention with Paul and Cruz having a large number of delegates but trailing someone else (trump, Rubio, bush, whoever) then I hope they would join forces and agree to be a unified ticket against the other candidate.

  23. #20
    Sure are a lot of Cruz trolls posting here. Hey, if Cruz supporters want to unite with Rand supporters to support Rand, I'm all for it. But, there is no way I would unite with anyone to support Cruz. He has nothing in common with me...a fraud. At the last debate, there were only three real real people on that stage...people who spoke with a genuine voice and they were Trump, Carson, and Rand Paul. Everyone else sounded like a typical politician....nothing but hot air and Cruz is the worse. As if Cruz has anything to do with liberty...

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I think Cruz could beat Hillary but I hope Rand will be the nominee. If it comes down to the convention with Paul and Cruz having a large number of delegates but trailing someone else (trump, Rubio, bush, whoever) then I hope they would join forces and agree to be a unified ticket against the other candidate.

    Even if someone with Cruz's positions was capable of being elected, the man himself is not. He is not a likable guy. Maybe Hillary isn't either, but the dems will vote for a liberal block of wood if that was their nominee. And I think that demographics have deteriorated the traditional conservatives potential constituency. That is one of the major points of the Rand campaign. The GOP must repudiate some things, Bushism in particular, and Cruz makes it all to easy for the 37 percent he would pull in the general to stick their heads in the ground and roll off the electoral cliff.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    The same thing was said both times Ron lost and the GOP brand is further in shambles. How many bad nominees does it take for libertarians to actually come out better off?
    The GOP is further in shambles? Have you ever seen so many GOP candidates in one election cycle talking about auditing the Fed, noninterventionism, flat taxes, etc.? I sure haven't. You have to look past the poll numbers to the actual candidates to see that libertarian principles are gradually becoming mainstream in the Republican Party. Don't let Rubio and Christie fool you; the GOP is getting better ideologically. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonderdonk View Post
    The GOP is further in shambles? Have you ever seen so many GOP candidates in one election cycle talking about auditing the Fed, noninterventionism, flat taxes, etc.? I sure haven't. You have to look past the poll numbers to the actual candidates to see that libertarian principles are gradually becoming mainstream in the Republican Party. Don't let Rubio and Christie fool you; the GOP is getting better ideologically. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.
    I don't believe they are remotely sincere about any of that. It took mere minutes after the paris attack for the neo-conservative revolution. The GOP sucks, but will say whatever it takes to try and smooth Rand voters into helping them out. I need to see more actions before I ever vote for any of these other guys.

  27. #24
    Rand is about all the suck I'm willing to accept...and I don't even know if I totally accept it.



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  29. #25
    Lol I will pass on the praline and dick, thank you very much!
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  30. #26
    Curious to know how many of you would accept a Cruz/Paul ticket. I think I would vote for that ticket.

    It would put Rand one step closer to the Presidency. So just curious...

    I personally don't think Cruz will take off. Carson is falling as predicted and Cruz is taking his place at least in Iowa. There should be a few more drops and pops in this race and let's hope Rand pops at the right time boys and girls.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by WTLaw View Post
    Its not a number of failures so much, but rather, we are waiting for the baby boom generation to well, no longer be that large of a demographic swath. And that is not now.
    Ha ha, good luck with that. All this "waiting for the boomers to go" stuff is laughable, the ones behind us aren't any better in liberty. They like their big government too.
    "The Patriarch"

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by notsure View Post
    Ted Cruz is a lying, snake, fraud, who isn't even Constitutionally eligible to hold office of POTUS.
    There are too many personalities to follow. Besides, I have more important things to do than keep inventory of the cult of personalities.

    That said, I have heard this about Cruz before. What has he done that so offends some? Not saying I like him - he's a bloody politician, after all, and other than Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater, I can think of few to no others from my life time that are worth burning with a match and come gasoline. Rand Paul will have my vote, provided I see any point in voting next November... hell, providing Bammy doesn't pull a fast one and make the (oh so ironic) play that this is not the time for change (or hope, I suppose).

    If I take Trump at face value, and in politics that always carries above-average risk, his intentions are all well and good enough. But just as with the so-called "liberals", good intentions count for squat if the results of your choices is unjust harm to others.

    Rand Paul or not at all.
    Unless Ron decided to throw in, which of course could not happen. But yeah, Rand would be by far the best in a set of less-than-ideal choices... or so it would seem. Let us not forget the men in suits tasked with edumacating a new president only minutes after swearing his oath. The soul of the world hangs in the balance. Given a world is rife with people who would kill you for the two dollars in your wallet or the "god" in which you profess belief, do we think Theye would stop at anything where global (or even just national) power hangs in the balance?

    Honestly, I would be satisfied to see Rand or even Trump win. The reason is not because I think either would right the American ship and put it back on a good course, but because I would so very much like to be able to observe any personal changes from campaigner to president that might indicate edumacation at third-party hands. I don't think either would affect a sea change in America. I assert that any such change would be observed in the men to the effect of altering the national course in no fundamental manner. Therefore, to me this is all a big experiment with America as my gigantic lab rat.

    Any other candidate will be easily beaten by Hillary. If Rand doesn't get the nom; then maybe we'll have a chance in 2020.
    Wait a second. Are you meaning to imply that Rand Paul would not be easily beaten by Clinton? Come now, be serious. As things stand right now, Rand Paul has no chance to prevail. That doesn't mean things could not change, but let us not wander too far off the plantation.

    If I vote, and I am not sure I will, Rand Paul has mine. I decided that a year or so ago. My philosophy is "press on regardless, and without fear" because the only other option is despair, in which case eating a bullet would seem the smart move. I no longer care whether Rand Paul wins in the sense that most others seem. I deemed him the best in the field and that is where I remain until such time as I see fit to alter that view.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    If Rand doesn't win, we'll be lucky to ever see anything resembling a presidential election in this country again. Hillary becomes dictator of the global territory formerly known as the united States of America.
    I see you're the optimist, believing that this is not going to happen with Bammy at the helm. Look at all the damage he has done in the past year alone. Another fifteen months and heaven only knows what mischief he could foist upon us.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  34. #30
    I don't subscribe to the idea of hoping for something bad because of a guess of what reaction that will produce in the future.

    'Maybe we should hope for the candidate that brings a few more wars'

    A single 'skirmish' is DEAD PEOPLE MURDERED
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

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