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Thread: Question on reasons to restrict immigration

  1. #1

    Question on reasons to restrict immigration

    Over the last few weeks I've seen people write multiple times on this forum that some of the reasons why we should not accept unrestricted immigration to the US include:

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    5. For one or more of these reasons, birthright citizenship should also be repealed.


    So, I'm asking this seriously and I would like an answer.



    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    I thought it applied to all races wanting to come to the US. I was not aware there was an exception to allow unrestricted immigration to the US by negroes. Citation?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I thought it applied to all races wanting to come to the US. I was not aware there was an exception to allow unrestricted immigration to the US by negroes. Citation?
    The point is the discussion frequently turns to denying birthright citizenship.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    The point is the discussion frequently turns to denying birthright citizenship.
    Negros shouldn't get special birthright privileges over other people.

    Hell negros shouldn't get any special privileges.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Over the last few weeks I've seen people write multiple times on this forum that some of the reasons why we should not accept unrestricted immigration to the US include:

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    5. For one or more of these reasons, birthright citizenship should also be repealed.


    So, I'm asking this seriously and I would like an answer.



    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    First all of those statements/opinions are backed up with mountains of facts....


    They are American citizens.
    Now that does not justify the existence or use of the welfare system but you duty is to help your family and nation before total strangers and the world.

    That also being said we can not deport "Negroes" back to Africa while we can deport illegals and prevent future immigration as we see fit as we clearly should as mass immigration has reduce our wages, stranded of living, and skewed our elections to favor statism.

    Why did you create this thread?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    The point is the discussion frequently turns to denying birthright citizenship.
    Well we have the right to, birth right ciztenship is an incentive for illegals to break the law, time to remove it, no reason why it should not only apply to American citizens.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Over the last few weeks I've seen people write multiple times on this forum that some of the reasons why we should not accept unrestricted immigration to the US include:

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    5. For one or more of these reasons, birthright citizenship should also be repealed.


    So, I'm asking this seriously and I would like an answer.



    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    I'll do you one better.

    Why do these arguments not apply to abortion? 50+ million babies have been aborted in the last 45 years, many of those belonging to the poor and minority labels.

    Still haven't received an answer to that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  9. #8
    You may get an easier and more resonable answer AFTER the coming US race war.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    I'll do you one better.

    Why do these arguments not apply to abortion? 50+ million babies have been aborted in the last 45 years, many of those belonging to the poor and minority labels.

    Still haven't received an answer to that one.

    Great question. One of the side effects of abortion is the fact that largely Democratic voting blocs have not increased in size, if fact if not for mass immigration it would likely not have grown at all.

    A sliver liner if any that could be found.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    You may get an easier and more resonable answer AFTER the coming US race war.
    Let it not be said it could have been so easily avoided.

    When your force people who dislike each other to live together, and vote themselves the wealth and away the rights of the majority/founding people of that nation, you are just asking for trouble.

  13. #11
    I never got an answer.
    Quit with the inflammatory speech and help me answer this.

    The anti-immigration crowd has made the argument almost ad nauseum. It goes like this:


    1. Immigrants fail to integrate with American culture
    2. Immigrants will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. Immigrants will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. Immigrants end up disproportionately involved with crime


    And so therefore

    1. They need to get kicked out
    2. They should not have birthright citizenship honored.


    Tell me why this does not apply to negroes.

    1. FACT: negroes have not assimilated to American culture. Since day one they have maintained their own culture and this culture even spreads to other cultures in the form of music, dress, and speech.
    2. FACT: negroes disproportionately use state assistance programs. The numbers I see show a pretty even split with 40% whites using state assistance and 40% blacks. When you take into consideration that blacks make up 12.3% of the population and whites make up 80%, they are statistically six and a half times more likely to be accepting welfare.
    3. FACT: negroes overwhelmingly vote for politicians who support welfare. Do I need to prove it?
    4. FACT: negroes are disproportionately incarcerated. Interestingly the percentages are almost exactly the same as the welfare numbers, meaning that blacks are also 6.5 times more likely to be incarcerated.


    Using anti-immigration logic, therefore
    1. Negroes should be deported to Mexico. Why Mexico? Because that's all we ever hear - send them back to Mexico. (BTW only half of illegal immigrants are from Mexico.)
    2. We can do this if we reject birthright citizenship.



    What is the reason not to use the exact same argument against negroes?
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    What is the reason not to use the exact same argument against negroes?
    You mean besides the obvious bit about them having US citizenship?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    You mean besides the obvious bit about them having US citizenship?
    Which can be rescinded if we are rescinding birthright citizenship.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Which can be rescinded if we are rescinding birthright citizenship.
    You asked the difference, that's a big difference. 1 set are American citizens, the others are not.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Which can be rescinded if we are rescinding birthright citizenship.
    What are you talking about? This entire thread seems like a poor attempt at trolling.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What are you talking about? This entire thread seems like a poor attempt at trolling.
    I would say piss poor.He thinks he can play the race card, what he fails to understand is we do not care about being called named by people who are on the wrong side of reality.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    You asked the difference, that's a big difference. 1 set are American citizens, the others are not.
    What's the problem here? Why is this difficult?

    Part of the anti-immigration problem that they intend to address is "anchor babies". I've seen it stated multiple times on this forum that we should either not honor or outright rescind birthright citizenship.

    If you honor birthright citizenship, then you either have to kick US citizens out of the country along with their parents, or you have to go with what we have now, which is the baby serving as an anchor for other illegals.

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What are you talking about? This entire thread seems like a poor attempt at trolling.
    No, it's a very good eighth or ninth attempt at having a discourse with people who repeatedly have shown me they're either totally unwilling or totally incapable.
    Put some $#@!ing thought into this for a second and tell me why every argument you guys use against illegal immigrants does not apply to negroes.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    What is the reason not to use the exact same argument against negroes?
    Deporting illegal immigrants is overwhelmingly popular among Americans of all stripes and political backgrounds.

    Deporting black people who have been here for hundreds of years is not, by contrast, a popular idea.

    So, practicality. One can be done. The other can't.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Over the last few weeks I've seen people write multiple times on this forum that some of the reasons why we should not accept unrestricted immigration to the US include:

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    5. For one or more of these reasons, birthright citizenship should also be repealed.


    So, I'm asking this seriously and I would like an answer.



    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    At the end of the day these reasons make little to no sense either.

    1. So? There is no homogeneous "American culture." Further, arguing you need to use state power to protect your beliefs is anti-liberty and anti-free market. The market of ideas needs to be just as free as the economic market.

    2. Last time I check the most people on social services were white people. Well, black people and white people often compete, usually being within a point or two of each other. See here: http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Notice immigrant populations are way lower as a percentage, not just of the population but of total users of social services.

    3. You mean like every American? Last time I checked not a single Republican President ever did anything but expand social programs and the state. Further, what laziness from the liberty movement that here are people fresh to the scene, coming form areas that have been destroyed by statism, primed for exposure to liberty ideas, and we just let them go because it isn't worth the effort?

    4. Well, when you make someone's labor illegal and trap them in poverty they resort to crime. That has nothing to do with immigrants or the cultures they're form but idiotic statist laws they're subjected to here.

    5. Citizenship is irrelevant. Every human has basic inherent, inalienable rights that must be respected by every liberty loving individual. That is what is important. If you ask me, this whole argument really demonstrates why anarchism is the only logical conclusion for liberty. Any form of statism, even minarchism, eventually twists the reasoning of people who love liberty and direct them towards justifying oppression.


    Also, if we started getting rid of anchor babies and their babies, then white people would have to leave as well. The hypocrisy is evident, but there you go.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    What's the problem here? Why is this difficult?

    Part of the anti-immigration problem that they intend to address is "anchor babies". I've seen it stated multiple times on this forum that we should either not honor or outright rescind birthright citizenship.

    If you honor birthright citizenship, then you either have to kick US citizens out of the country along with their parents, or you have to go with what we have now, which is the baby serving as an anchor for other illegals.
    End it, try and strip it away as their parents broke the law and we can not reward criminality.

    No, it's a very good eighth or ninth attempt at having a discourse with people who repeatedly have shown me they're either totally unwilling or totally incapable.
    Ever stop to think that you are not willing or incapable of understanding?

    Put some $#@!ing thought into this for a second and tell me why every argument you guys use against illegal immigrants does not apply to negroes.
    Because one set is American Citizens, the other is a group of invaders who are not going to be rewarded for violating our national sovereignty. That is why.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    At the end of the day these reasons make little to no sense either.
    No, our reasons are very much in good sense.

    1. So? There is no homogeneous "American culture." Further, arguing you need to use state power to protect your beliefs is anti-liberty and anti-free market. The market of ideas needs to be just as free as the economic market.
    "Diverse" nations have more crime, poverty, corruption, and tyranny then homogeneous nations.

    No, you can have free markets and the market of ideas with a secure border, Switzerland proves this.

    2. Last time I check the most people on social services were white people. Well, black people and white people often compete, usually being within a point or two of each other. See here: http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ Notice immigrant populations are way lower as a percentage, not just of the population but of total users of social services.
    Liar.



    http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-Native-Households

    3. You mean like every American? Last time I checked not a single Republican President ever did anything but expand social programs and the state.
    Neo Cons are statist, liars and hypothetical, this is nothing new nor acceptable.

    Further, what laziness from the liberty movement that here are people fresh to the scene, coming form areas that have been destroyed by statism, primed for exposure to liberty ideas, and we just let them go because it isn't worth the effort?
    No, it is not laziness, its common sense, they do not support Liberty, look at how they vote/what they support.

    He are some of their views.














    They vote 8-2 for Democrats.


    Think your gun rights are safe?










    So you think they care about Liberty but support socialism and violation of the 2nd Amendment?

    We are not going to let them go because it is not worth the effort, it is not possible to convert them/convince them so we are going to keep them out of our nation as they will subvert it.


    4. Well, when you make someone's labor illegal and trap them in poverty they resort to crime. That has nothing to do with immigrants or the cultures they're form but idiotic statist laws they're subjected to here.
    How is is an "idiotic statst law" to make it illegal to rape, murder, or commit acts of terrorism?

    5. Citizenship is irrelevant. Every human has basic inherent, inalienable rights that must be respected by every liberty loving individual. That is what is important. If you ask me, this whole argument really demonstrates why anarchism is the only logical conclusion for liberty. Any form of statism, even minarchism, eventually twists the reasoning of people who love liberty and direct them towards justifying oppression.
    So if it is why do you care how we deny it to others? Also no one has the right to violate the sovereignty of another nation, violate the laws, and live at the expense of others.

    It only concludes that anyone who supports mass immigration/open borders is a useful idiot or tyrant.


    Also, if we started getting rid of anchor babies and their babies, then white people would have to leave as well. The hypocrisy is evident, but there you go.
    No, it is not hypocritical, you have no arrangement and are just pulling things out of your ass.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    First all of those statements/opinions are backed up with mountains of facts....


    They are American citizens.
    Now that does not justify the existence or use of the welfare system but you duty is to help your family and nation before total strangers and the world.

    That also being said we can not deport "Negroes" back to Africa while we can deport illegals and prevent future immigration as we see fit as we clearly should as mass immigration has reduce our wages, stranded of living, and skewed our elections to favor statism.

    Why did you create this thread?
    Okay. Make all immigrants American citizens. Problem solved.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Over the last few weeks I've seen people write multiple times on this forum that some of the reasons why we should not accept unrestricted immigration to the US include:

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    5. For one or more of these reasons, birthright citizenship should also be repealed.


    So, I'm asking this seriously and I would like an answer.



    Why do these not apply to negroes?
    Excellent question. In another thread, the disgusting racist American Spartan advocated sending the Negros back to Africa. Only Anglo-Saxons can be free.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Okay. Make all immigrants American citizens. Problem solved.
    No, that just compounds problems related to mass immigration.
    Why not reduce immigration from sources and size as well as ending birth right ciztenship.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Excellent question. In another thread, the disgusting racist American Spartan advocated sending the Negros back to Africa. Only Anglo-Saxons can be free.
    Lying Fraud, I never made that statement. If Blacks want to stay in America, fine, if some want to "escape white racism" then let us pool our funds and help those that want to move back.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post

    1. They fail to integrate with American culture
    2. They will disproportionately use state assistance programs
    3. They will therefore end up voting for politicians who promise to continue and/or expand welfare programs
    4. They end up disproportionately involved with crime
    Problems #2 through #4 can be explained largely by poverty (most immigrants are, naturally enough, coming from poor countries), and is therefore easily solvable.

    The data reflect this, when you compare first generation immigrants to their children or grandchildren.

    Problem #1 (if it is a problem) can be explained largely by welfare, which prevents them from having to integrate to the extent necessary to hold a job.

  31. #27
    Well either way Blacks are citizens and immigrants are not.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Well either way Blacks are citizens and immigrants are not.
    So, if the government passed a law making all immigrants citizens right now, you'd be okay with them staying here?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So, if the government passed a law making all immigrants citizens right now, you'd be okay with them staying here?
    No, I would not as we have adding tens of millions of new welfare voters, increasing the burden on the system, and giving the left tens of millions of new voters.

    How can you not understand that.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    No, I would not as we have adding tens of millions of new welfare voters, increasing the burden on the system, and giving the left tens of millions of new voters.

    How can you not understand that.
    So then black people should be deported?

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