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Thread: Who has power to regulate a state’s immigration? The question remains!

  1. #1

    Who has power to regulate a state’s immigration? The question remains!

    I'm still waiting for someone to quote the wording in our Constitution under which the president or Congress has been granted a power to flood a state with unwanted "refugees".

    I certainly cannot find a power delegated to Congress or the President in our written Constitution repealing a power exercised by the States under the Articles of Confederation during which time each state was free to regulate immigration into their own state. But there is an exception made to this power under our existing Constitution which the States knowingly and willingly greed to ___ the exception being Article 1, Section 9, which reads:

    "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person."

    The above delegated power allows Congress to lay a tax or duty on the importation of foreigners, but leaves each State otherwise free to admit whom they please and set its own immigration policy in a manner which serves each particular State's interests, general welfare and safety.

    So, the question remains, under what wording in our Constitution has Congress or the president been delegated a power to admit tens of thousands, or even millions of poverty stricken or destitute foreigners on to American soil and then require unwilling states to accept them?

    Let us recall what Chief Justice Marshall emphasized while the ink was barely dry on our existing Constitution:

    The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing; if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? ______ MARBURY v. MADISON, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)


    JWK



    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ___ Madison, Federalist Paper No. 47



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  3. #2
    Who has the most and biggest guns?

    (Same answer!)

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I'm still waiting for someone to quote the wording in our Constitution under which the president or Congress has been granted a power to flood a state with unwanted "refugees".

    I certainly cannot find a power delegated to Congress or the President in our written Constitution repealing a power exercised by the States under the Articles of Confederation during which time each state was free to regulate immigration into their own state. But there is an exception made to this power under our existing Constitution which the States knowingly and willingly greed to ___ the exception being Article 1, Section 9, which reads:

    "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person."

    The above delegated power allows Congress to lay a tax or duty on the importation of foreigners, but leaves each State otherwise free to admit whom they please and set its own immigration policy in a manner which serves each particular State's interests, general welfare and safety.

    So, the question remains, under what wording in our Constitution has Congress or the president been delegated a power to admit tens of thousands, or even millions of poverty stricken or destitute foreigners on to American soil and then require unwilling states to accept them?

    Let us recall what Chief Justice Marshall emphasized while the ink was barely dry on our existing Constitution:

    The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing; if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? ______ MARBURY v. MADISON, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)


    JWK



    The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ___ Madison, Federalist Paper No. 47
    ASKED AND ANSWERED.
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  5. #4
    Do states have border controls and security where they can check who crosses their border and control who decides to move or travel there? Arizona doesn't like immigrants but if one moves there from California there is nothing they can do about it.

    Unless a person breaks the law, a state cannot say a person cannot go there or be there.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Do states have border controls and security where they can check who crosses their border and control who decides to move or travel there? Arizona doesn't like immigrants but if one moves there from California there is nothing they can do about it.

    Unless a person breaks the law, a state cannot say a person cannot go there or be there.
    Is there a federal law against entering the country without government permission?

  7. #6
    Federal- not state- law. States cannot regulate who wants to live within their borders. The controlled borders are between countries- not between states. If an immigrant is legal a state cannot say they cannot go there.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Federal- not state- law. States cannot regulate who wants to live within their borders. The controlled borders are between countries- not between states. If an immigrant is legal a state cannot say they cannot go there.
    Thererfore, the illegal immigrants(so called) ARE in fact, law breaking criminal aliens, are they not?

    NEXT!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Federal- not state- law. States cannot regulate who wants to live within their borders. The controlled borders are between countries- not between states. If an immigrant is legal a state cannot say they cannot go there.
    This has been carried too far in my opinion.

    The people residing in an area should have the final say who the state or fed plants in their county.

    Residents of counties aren't asked if they'll accept aid cases, they're saddled with them.

    Lots of this is self induced by accepting free money though so there isn't such a thing as true innocence.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Thererfore, the illegal immigrants(so called) ARE in fact, law breaking criminal aliens, are they not?

    NEXT!
    The proposed Syrian refugees the question concerns are not illegal immigrants. They would be entering the country legally.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The proposed Syrian refugees the question concerns are not illegal immigrants. They would be entering the country legally.
    So then obviously the Syrians are not who I was talking about, right? <SHEESH!>

    Next!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    So then obviously the Syrians are not who I was talking about, right? <SHEESH!>

    Next!
    According to the OP, it was about refugees and legal immigrants- not illegal ones. Or are you changing the topic?

    I'm still waiting for someone to quote the wording in our Constitution under which the president or Congress has been granted a power to flood a state with unwanted "refugees".
    So, the question remains, under what wording in our Constitution has Congress or the president been delegated a power to admit tens of thousands, or even millions of poverty stricken or destitute foreigners on to American soil and then require unwilling states to accept them?
    If the government is admitting them into the country, they are here legally.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Federal- not state- law. States cannot regulate who wants to live within their borders. The controlled borders are between countries- not between states. If an immigrant is legal a state cannot say they cannot go there.
    BS.


    THE STATES ARE SOVEREIGN .


    THEY RETAINED THE RIGHT TO CONFER THEIR CITIZENSHIP ---NOT US ----UPON WHOMEVER.


    .
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  15. #13
    If I want to obtain citizenship to the state of say Kentucky, how do I go about it? What benefits does it grant me? Can I be a citizen of Kentucky and not be a citizen of the United States? The Constitution says I am automatically a citizen of the state where I reside if I am a US citizen.

    http://teacher.scholastic.com/activi...nt/civics3.htm
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
    That means the state cannot decide my citizenship.

    Whether or not I am a US Citizen but am in the country legally- can Kentucky stop me from moving there? Can they force me to leave? How do they exercise their sovereignty? Do they control their borders?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-21-2015 at 02:19 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post

    Whether or not I am a US Citizen but am in the country legally- can Kentucky stop me from moving there? Can they force me to leave? How do they exercise their sovereignty and grant citizenship?
    The state of Kentucky has the same single tool the feds do, a gun in the hands of a goon.

    Yes he/they can stop you or force you to leave...........Unless you have a bigger gun or more money to bribe the goons..

    Questions of granting you status or compelling the goons to behave differently all fall to bureaucrats who control the disbursements of money to the goons..

  17. #15
    I dont see anything in the constitution that says He can't do it
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #16
    If the constitution does not grant the federal government the authority to let in refugees, and that power is properly left to the state, what power does the federal government have to limit immigration in any way? Quotas, walls etc all unconstitutional. If an immigrant can find a willing state, then they can migrate. And once a legal migrant to one state, what's to stop them from going to another? It seems to me that the federal government's only role would be Naturalization and Citizenship which is a step beyond and a different question than legal immigration.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    The question has yet to be answered!

    Under what wording in our Constitution have the states granted a power to the federal government to allow entry to tens of thousands of foreigners on to U.S. soil and then compel a state to accept them?




    JWK

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    I dont see anything in the constitution that says He can't do it
    Have you forgotten our Constitution is one of defined and limited powers?


    The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing; if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? ______ MARBURY v. MADISON, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)


    To assume Obama has such power is to assume ”the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves.”___ quoting Hamilton in Federalist No 78.


    JWK


    The surest way for Obama to accomplish his fundamental transformation of America is to flood America with the poverty stricken and destitute populations of other countries.


  22. #19
    Why do any of you care?
    We have nine people in black dresses who decide this for us. We're not capable of deciding it for ourselves. Those black dress people said so like right after the ink dried on the constitution.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    The question has yet to be answered!

    Under what wording in our Constitution have the states granted a power to the federal government to allow entry to tens of thousands of foreigners on to U.S. soil and then compel a state to accept them?









    JWK
    THE STATES ****RETAINED**** THE RIGHT TO CONFER THEIR CITIZENSHIP UPON WHOMEVER.


    BUT ONLY CONGRESS CAN NATURALIZE ******US****** CITIZENS
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Why do any of you care?
    We have nine people in black dresses who decide this for us. We're not capable of deciding it for ourselves. Those black dress people said so like right after the ink dried on the constitution.
    Well, most of them did go to Harvard, Yale, or Columbia.

    They are probably smarter than us.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Well, most of them did go to Harvard, Yale, or Columbia.

    They are probably smarter than us.
    The Constitution was created by James Madison for the benefit of "WE THE PEOPLE" hence he concluded that we are the GUARDIANS OF THE CONSTITUTION.


    MAYBE SOMEDAY THE PEOPLE WILL WAKE UP FROM THEIR STUPOR THEN RESTORE AND ENFORCE THE CONSTITUTION.


    .
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    The question has yet to be answered!
    Not sure the constitution addresses this directly,, however common sense does.

    There is no reason to bring them here.. There is no reason the taxpayers should foot the bill WHATSOEVER.

    but then we should have not been mucking about creating these problems..

    I have absolutely no problem with folks coming here on their own dime,, in hope of better life.
    I don't even have a problem if folks volunteer to sponsor some. I respect honest charity.

    but the welfare has to end.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    The question has yet to be answered!

    Under what wording in our Constitution have the states granted a power to the federal government to allow entry to tens of thousands of foreigners on to U.S. soil and then compel a state to accept them?




    JWK
    Try this to start. The Fourteenth Amendment.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

    Amendment XIV

    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    If the government says they can come into the country, a state cannot deny them the rights to travel and live within any of the states- they must have the same rights as all other legal persons unless they have violated the law.



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  29. #25
    That of course assumes the Federal Government has the power to control immigration in the first place. I thought this was a good look at that issue: http://www.americanbar.org/publicati...n-policy-.html

    Who is Responsible for U.S. immigration policy?

    Who controls the nation’s immigration laws? Although the question seems straightforward, the historical picture is mixed, and the text of the U.S. Constitution does not point clearly to the answer. While the Constitution’s text and the various Supreme Court cases interpreting this text suggest that the federal govern*ment has the exclusive power to enact and enforce the nation’s immigration laws, state and local authorities still play an important role in the regulation of immigration because they shape the conditions of daily life for immigrants in their jurisdictions.

    Federal Immigration Power

    Article I, Section 8, clause 4 of the Con*stitution entrusts the federal legislative branch with the power to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.” This clear textual command for uniformity establishes that the federal government, specifically Congress, is responsible for crafting the laws that determine how and when noncitizens can become nat*uralized citizens of the United States. But control over naturalization does not necessarily require full control over immigration. And indeed, for the first century of the United States’ existence, many states enacted laws regulating and controlling immigration into their own borders. Various states passed laws aimed at preventing a variety of populations from entering the borders of their states, including individuals with criminal records, people reliant on public assistance, slaves, and free blacks.

    It was not until the late 19th centu*ry that Congress began to actively reg*ulate immigration, in particular, with measures designed to restrict Chinese immigration. By this time, the Supreme Court had begun to articulate clear limits on state immigration powers. In 1849, with the Passenger Cases, the Supreme Court struck down efforts by New York and Massachusetts to impose a head tax on incoming immigrants. Four justices concluded that such taxes usurped congressional power to regu*late commerce under Article I, Section 8, clause 3 of the Constitution. A unan*imous court applied the same rationale in 1876, striking down a New York state statute taxing immigrants on incoming vessels in Henderson v. Mayor of New York. A few years later, in 1884, with a decision in the Head Money Cases, the Court for the first time upheld a federal regulation of immigration, also on Com*merce Clause grounds.

    From that time on, the Court upheld federal immigration regula*tions against constitutional challenges, although the underlying rationale shift*ed. With the Chinese Exclusion Case in 1889, the Court began issuing a series of decisions in which it treated con*gressional power over the regulation of immigration as a virtually unreview*able, plenary power. The Court upheld congressional immigration laws and executive enforcement of those laws against a series of challenges, in spite of their patently discriminatory nature and lack of due process guarantees for non*citizens. The Court repeatedly suggest*ed that this federal power flowed from the federal government’s prerogative to control foreign affairs.

    From the late 19th century through the present day, the Supreme Court has upheld almost every federal immigra*tion regulation against constitutional challenge, citing Congress’s plenary power in this area. As Justice Kennedy wrote in the 2012 decision in Arizona v. United States:

    The Government of the Unit*ed States has broad, undoubted power over the subject of immi*gration and the status of aliens. … This authority rests, in part, on the National Government’s con*stitutional power to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” U. S. Const., Art. I, §8, cl. 4, and its inherent power as sovereign to control and conduct relations with foreign nations….
    More at link.

  30. #26
    POTUS says YES, COTUS says NO, who has the rightful authority?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    BS.


    THE STATES ARE SOVEREIGN .


    THEY RETAINED THE RIGHT TO CONFER THEIR CITIZENSHIP ---NOT US ----UPON WHOMEVER.


    .
    You understand that naturalization (saying who can be a citizen of state X) and immigration (who can come into state X) are two different things right?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You understand that naturalization (saying who can be a citizen of state X) and immigration (who can come into state X) are two different things right?
    You do understand that naturalization (saying who can be a US citizen ) and immigration (who can come into state X) are two different things right
    .
    .DON'T TAX ME BRO!!!

    .
    .
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    You do understand that naturalization (saying who can be a US citizen ) and immigration (who can come into state X) are two different things right
    I understand it, but it seems that you don't.

    Edit: And here's why it seems that you don't. You keep arguing that the states power to determine who is or is not a citizen of said state = the states power to say who can and can't come into said state. Yes Texas can choose not to confer Texas citizenship on person X. That doesn't mean that Texas can prevent person X from coming into Texas. Maybe Texas can. Maybe Texas can't. Using large, red fonts doesn't make your non existent argument coherent.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 11-22-2015 at 03:38 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    According to the OP, it was about refugees and legal immigrants- not illegal ones. Or are you changing the topic?





    If the government is admitting them into the country, they are here legally.
    Only if that government is vested with a constitutionally authorized power. Our federal government has not been granted authority to admit 10s of millions of foreigners onto American Soil and then compel the States to accept them.

    Stop making stuff up!


    JWK




    The surest way for Obama to accomplish his fundamental transformation of America is to flood America with the poverty stricken and destitute populations of other countries.



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