https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...oposing-a-vat/
Can anyone confirm this? does Rand Paul's tax plan include a VAT Tax? if so, this is very scary and a horrible idea. how can he justify this?
Anyone who supports a VAT tax can go $#@! themselves.
It seemed to be a limited version. Don't count me as an expert, I don't see where it adds to every level of production.
Personally, I would have left out the business tax and just settled for a higher income tax rate.
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Originally Posted by sparebulb
Does Rand?????
Last edited by TommyJeff; 11-15-2015 at 08:27 PM.
Thank you. I will take a closer look at this tax plan. I am not an expert either. Hopefully Rand can explain this possible situation.
But, if there is a 'limited VAT' in this plan(or any plan, talking in more of a theoretical perspective). Couldnt the rates of this 'VAT' be increased at a future date, causing a bigger problem on a tax most people cant 'see'?
Why?
VAT is one of the most efficient forms of taxation.
It eliminates most of the administrative and compliance costs associated with the income tax.
So where is the added value?
huh?
A consumption tax is the best tax in virtually every respect. It creates the fewest distortions
His proposal would require a 2/3rd vote to raise it.
The problem with a VAT is that it makes people drool uncontrollably at just the mention of it. Look at how angry people at just the mention of it. He probably should have just proposed a sales tax instead, but a sales tax is hard sale too.
Nowhere for the consumer. The net result is simply higher tax rate. Think how affordable the affordable health care is,
So they call it Value Added just to confuse us like the PATRIOT act confuses.
I guess I'm not voting then. Are you $#@!ting me? I never would have thought he was capable of such a thing. Adding a new tax they can jack the rates up on? They don't take enough of our money?
yep, and the Affordable Care Act, and Affirmative Action....
It is a kind of sick little joke too I bet.
Well, I understand that kind of stupidity started in Europe. I guess those folks want the U.S. to be just like Europe. What a shame they can't let us be the last bastion of liberty left in this world.
Singapore, Hong Kong, and Switzerland are all far more economically free than the US and spend far less and they all have VATs.
It eliminates payroll taxes and corporate taxes. Why aren't you worried about those taxes being "jacked up."
Last edited by Krugminator2; 11-15-2015 at 09:05 PM.
Even wikipedia states VAT is the same as GST:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_taxA value-added tax (VAT) or general sales tax (GST) is a form of consumption tax. From the perspective of the buyer, it is a tax on the purchase price
It eliminates them for now. They would come back, and we would have a shiny new sales tax to go with them. No thanks.
Oh obviously, they would come back. We all know how often the federal government raises taxes. Voters love 'em. It is such a frequent occurrence. The last tax hike was 22 years ago and it lead to the first Republican controlled house in 40 years.
The US is ranked 11 in the Heritage Economic Freedom Ranking. ALL 11 countries ahead of the US have VATs.
But with Rand's plan if you raise the corporate tax you also have to raise the personal tax and by 3/5 vote of congress, which makes it much more difficult to raise the rate...
Rand Paul for Peace
Oh, well that's a relief. The Heritage Economic Freedom Ranking means the world to me. Let's have it then! I'm always excited to find new ways I can support my government and make sure they get enough revenue.
Keep in mind in most of the countries VAT is about 20%. Let it sink - 20% Federal Sales Tax.
And those countries aren't the policemen of the world. They are, in fact, subsidized by the policemen of the world.
His plan leads to much less revenue. How do you not know that and have such strong opinion?
So if he proposed purely a national sales and got rid of every other tax, would you oppose that too? I guess you must because it is a new tax.
The Fair Tax that Gary Johnson and John Stossel endorse is a 23% sales tax. That would be my ideal but it will never pass.
Last edited by Krugminator2; 11-15-2015 at 09:34 PM.
1. VAT is largely self-policing (= fewer IRS goons = smaller IRS budget). At each stage of production, each firm collects tax from its customers and pays tax to its suppliers, and remits the difference to the government. Suppose a firm wanted to evade by failing to report a sale (i.e. keeps the tax on that sale for itself, rather than sending it along to the government). That's not going to work, because the counterparty to that sale is going to report the sale, so the figures sent into the government by the two firms won't match, and the evader will be easily caught. Why will the counterparty report the sale? Because that reduces his own tax liability. Hence, self-policing.
2. The mere fact that the government deals with businesses rather than individuals (lots more of latter than former) makes for lower administrative costs.
3. Much of the administrative burden is shifted onto business; private enterprises (profit motive) will tend to find ways of doing it more cheaply than government.
4. As for compliance costs, it's altogether simpler than the income tax and - again - would affect far fewer people (H&R Block, however, will not be pleased).
His father said he would prefer VAT over our current system as well. The only reason he didn't push the Fairtax was that he didn't think it ensured elimination of the income tax as a prerequisite.
I recall him pointing out that you can avoid a VAT tax; and that it helps promote saving over spending.
Not a fan of VAT, even with its advantages over other forms of taxation in terms of market disruptions. Sales taxes are easier to evade than VAT's. Since I buy quite a lot of my things online, I rarely pay sales tax in my state. Food and clothing are untaxed here, and those are the only two things that I commonly don't buy online. And all of the countries that have VAT's also tend to have progressive income taxes as well. The VAT is rarely instead of progressive incomes taxes, and most often in addition to them.
I like Ron Paul's view on the income tax, it should be flat, really flat, as in zero. And we shouldn't replace it with anything. I understand that Rand has to make the budget work on paper, but I hope that is all it is.
You are engaging in deception. From the end user perspective the internal mechanics of VAT are not relevant. It is no different than the sales tax.
The amount of scrutiny businesses are going to be subjected to will increase, as government will have the ability to track closely the entire manufacturing process. Not sure how this will result in lower overhead and fewer bureaucrats?
They are if the end user wants to reduce government spending.
From the end user perspective, that's right.It is no different than the sales tax.
And?
See point #1 in my last post.The amount of scrutiny businesses are going to be subjected to will increase, as government will have the ability to track closely the entire manufacturing process. Not sure how this will result in lower overhead and fewer bureaucrats?
I will always oppose every tax. If he were to propose a national sales tax on the condition that the 16th amendment was repealed first, then I wouldn't bitch about it.
Sounds like a system full of black market opportunities.
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