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Thread: Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yes they were.

    I suppose your point is that they were nominated by the Democratic Party, and I've been saying immigrants voted Democrat?
    Yes, maybe without a large base of people that had no understanding of American culture, values, and politics we could have been not had their reign of tyranny.


    The Democratic Party I've been describing (libertarian, the home for most immigrants), had ceased to exist by the time Wilson was nominated.
    I think before but that does not matter, if it was evil then, what could it be now?

    After 1896, the old party lines became blurred; both parties became Big Government parties, and the ethnic division largely broke down as well.
    Yes they have two sides of the same coin in the pocket of the banking cartel. Now what is even worse is the importation of people that will blindly support them for either welfare/ciztenship.


    Many immigrants moved into the GOP, and many WASPs moved into the Democratic Party.
    Sad to see that they did for without them the Northeast would not have gone blue without their support/wealth. Now that party seeks to rob us of our nation, culture, and future (albeit the establishment of the GOP is in collusion with the Dems) Sad to see the Founding Stock of America were played in such a way.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    What are you talking about? If Catholics, Irish, Italians, etc. were as Democrat as they were 100 years ago the GOP wouldn't have won very many elections this past century.
    Which is why we nee to learn from history and not admit tens of millions of people that will take generations to assassinate.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSpartan View Post
    Which is why we nee to learn from history and not admit tens of millions of people that will take generations to assassinate.
    Tilting at windmills- fighting imaginary ghosts. There are not "tens of millions of people" coming to the country. Net immigration from Mexico has been zero for several years now.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/politi...eck/index.html

    Martin O'Malley
    Reality Check: O'Malley on net immigration from Mexico

    By Sonam Vashi, CNN

    Former Gov. Martin O'Malley said, "The truth of the matter is net immigration from Mexico last year was zero." He then challenged viewers to fact-check him, and we couldn't resist.

    According to the Pew Research Center, net migration from Mexico probably reached zero in 2010, and more Mexicans have left the United States than arrived since then.

    Additionally, the actual number of Mexicans living in the United States consistently declined throughout 2014. The U.S. Border Patrol also reported that in the 2014 fiscal year, the number of Mexicans apprehended along the border decreased 14% when compared to the 2013 fiscal year.

    The information we have suggests that the net immigration rate is negative -- which is actually not zero -- but it is close, and probably still supports O'Malley's point.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-15-2015 at 03:47 PM.

  5. #124
    Hmmm, maybe the ex Mexican ambassador to the US was either mistaken or just flat out lying. Quien sabe?

    ex mexican ambassador to us illegals estimate

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ex+m...64.OVjHn2ByaS0
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 11-15-2015 at 01:53 PM.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Hmmm, maybe the ex Mexican ambassador to the US was either mistaken or just flat out lying. Quien sabe?

    ex mexican ambassador to us illegals estimate

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ex+m...64.OVjHn2ByaS0

    Yes, he was mistaken and admitted it just a few minutes later- though some choose to ignore that. The Ambassador corrected the 30 million illegal immigrant figure with 11.3 million later in the same speech- which is down from 12.3 million in the US in 2007.

    Sarukhan then stated later in the interview that there are 11.3 million illegal immigrants in the country




    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/1...ts-from-mexico




    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-15-2015 at 07:12 PM.

  7. #126
    Population Growth for Hispanics in the US Slowing

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...h-surge-cools/

    Hispanic population growth had peaked earlier, in the 1990s. From 1995 to 2000, annual average growth was 4.8%, and growth has declined since then. From 2010 to 2014, the annual average growth had dropped to 2.2%. Part of the reason for this decline in population growth is the slowdown in immigration from Latin America, and in particular, from Mexico.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Yes, he was mistaken and admitted it just a few minutes later- though some choose to ignore that. The Ambassador corrected the 30 million illegal immigrant figure with 11.3 million later in the same speech- which is down from 12.3 million in the US in 2007.






    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/1...ts-from-mexico




    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/

    They are clearly wrong, you do understand people do come from other nations, other them Mexico.

    Well does not matter, amnesty will not happen, immigration will be greatly reduce and we will be greater for it.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Population Growth for Hispanics in the US Slowing

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...h-surge-cools/





    Wait until Trump is elected!



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  11. #129

    Lew Rockwell on Open Borders (ALL SHOULD READ)

    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal
    By Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
    November 10, 2015

    Obviously, in a pure open borders system, the Western welfare states would simply be overrun by foreigners seeking tax dollars. As libertarians, we should of course celebrate the demise of the welfare state. But to expect a sudden devotion to laissez faire to be the likely outcome of a collapse in the welfare state is to indulge in naïveté of an especially preposterous kind.

    Can we conclude that an immigrant should be considered “invited” by the mere fact that he has been hired by an employer? No, says Hans, because the employer does not assume the full cost associated with his new employee. The employer partially externalizes the costs of that employee on the taxpaying public:

    Equipped with a work permit, the immigrant is allowed to make free use of every public facility: roads, parks, hospitals, schools, and no landlord, businessman, or private associate is permitted to discriminate against him as regards housing, employment, accommodation, and association. That is, the immigrant comes invited with a substantial fringe benefits package paid for not (or only partially) by the immigrant employer (who allegedly has extended the invitation), but by other domestic proprietors as taxpayers who had no say in the invitation whatsoever.

    These migrations, in short, are not market outcomes. They would not occur on a free market. What we are witnessing are examples of subsidized movement. Libertarians defending these mass migrations as if they were market phenomena are only helping to discredit and undermine the true free market.

    Moreover, as Hans points out, the “free immigration” position is not analogous to free trade, as some libertarians have erroneously claimed. In the case of goods being traded from one place to another, there is always and necessarily a willing recipient. The same is not true for “free immigration.”


    Much more here: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/...vate-property/
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  12. #130
    Yep.....

    It's the welfare state.....stupid.

    You gonna make peoples head 'splode in 3....2....1....
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
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    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  13. #131

  14. #132
    Equipped with a work permit, the immigrant is allowed to make free use of every public facility: roads
    I always knew roads was reason we needed government, but never knew it was also reason we needed closed-borders.

    Great point. Thanks for posting.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    I always knew roads was reason we needed government, but never knew it was also reason we needed closed-borders.

    Great point. Thanks for posting.
    I thought road building companies built/build the roads. At least they do in Oklahoma.

  16. #134
    The Lew-Haters are coming around. Nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    I thought road building companies built/build the roads. At least they do in Oklahoma.
    Nothing as important as roads would be left to a private company.

    This is why our roads are such high quality. And we can't let illegal immigrants just come in, and ruin, that
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Nothing as important as roads would be left to a private company.

    This is why our roads are such high quality. And we can't let illegal immigrants just come in, and ruin, that
    How many actual government building projects of anything, have you seen up close?



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  20. #137
    Except

    1) Those immigrants pay taxes

    2) The employer pays taxes

    3) " but by other domestic proprietors as taxpayers who had no say in the invitation whatsoever." Seriously? I mean seriously?

    When did I get a say in what roads are going to be built for use by valid citizens? When did I get a say as to whether schools will even exist, let alone where they will be or how they got funded?

    I said it in the last thread, too - Lew Rockwell is off his nut.
    I'm sure a lot of you will have trouble understanding this, but there's this thing called "Appeal to Authority" and it's a logical fallacy.
    I've stated previously and often that none other than Ron Paul himself is wrong on this issue. I'm certainly not afraid to call Lew Rockwell wrong when he's wrong, either.

    And I'm least afraid of pointing out that if LE won't stop making Appeal to Authority arguments herself, she should at least stop assuming the rest of us respond to similar logical fallacies.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Except

    1) Those immigrants pay taxes

    2) The employer pays taxes

    3) " but by other domestic proprietors as taxpayers who had no say in the invitation whatsoever." Seriously? I mean seriously?

    When did I get a say in what roads are going to be built for use by valid citizens? When did I get a say as to whether schools will even exist, let alone where they will be or how they got funded?

    I said it in the last thread, too - Lew Rockwell is off his nut.
    I'm sure a lot of you will have trouble understanding this, but there's this thing called "Appeal to Authority" and it's a logical fallacy.
    I've stated previously and often that none other than Ron Paul himself is wrong on this issue. I'm certainly not afraid to call Lew Rockwell wrong when he's wrong, either.

    And I'm least afraid of pointing out that if LE won't stop making Appeal to Authority arguments herself, she should at least stop assuming the rest of us respond to similar logical fallacies.
    So, do you agree with Butler Schaffer's take on borders/boundaries? If not, could you refer me to a thread/article that describes your opinion? Thnx.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    And I'm least afraid of pointing out that if LE won't stop making Appeal to Authority arguments herself, she should at least stop assuming the rest of us respond to similar logical fallacies.[/COLOR]
    I have argued with you guys, ad nauseum about your illogical stance. I thought maybe you would listen to Lew.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Except

    1) Those immigrants pay taxes

    2) The employer pays taxes

    3) " but by other domestic proprietors as taxpayers who had no say in the invitation whatsoever." Seriously? I mean seriously?

    When did I get a say in what roads are going to be built for use by valid citizens? When did I get a say as to whether schools will even exist, let alone where they will be or how they got funded?

    I said it in the last thread, too - Lew Rockwell is off his nut.
    I'm sure a lot of you will have trouble understanding this, but there's this thing called "Appeal to Authority" and it's a logical fallacy.
    I've stated previously and often that none other than Ron Paul himself is wrong on this issue. I'm certainly not afraid to call Lew Rockwell wrong when he's wrong, either.

    And I'm least afraid of pointing out that if LE won't stop making Appeal to Authority arguments herself, she should at least stop assuming the rest of us respond to similar logical fallacies.
    Molyneux just owned you in this video.


  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Bastiat's The Law View Post
    Molyneux just owned you in this video.
    Look, people, for $#@!'s sake, stop treating me like I'm stupid.

    He's making the exact same argument all of you are. I get that. If you don't get that, then I'm not the one with the comprehension problem.

    He's saying that we've paid into these systems and people who didn't pay into them are withdrawing from it. Great. Got it.

    Can we $#@!ing please move on from that point? Seriously. We know. We don't care. PLEASE, LET'S MOVE ON TO THE OBVIOUS REBUTTAL.

    It's been said about a dozen times in the last few weeks. Maybe the thirteenth time it'll sink in.

    When you guys complain about the system getting abused, what you're saying is that you care about the system.
    OK! I totally get that you want to preserve welfare in this country. It's like a year past time for you guys to realize it now.

    Do I need to watch the other 30 minutes of Stephbot being pissed, or is that the extent of it? Is there anything new in this video, or is it just rehashing the same tired arguments you guys have been making and we've been rebutting for the last month here?
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Look, people, for $#@!'s sake, stop treating me like I'm stupid.

    He's making the exact same argument all of you are. I get that. If you don't get that, then I'm not the one with the comprehension problem.

    He's saying that we've paid into these systems and people who didn't pay into them are withdrawing from it. Great. Got it.

    Can we $#@!ing please move on from that point? Seriously. We know. We don't care. PLEASE, LET'S MOVE ON TO THE OBVIOUS REBUTTAL.

    It's been said about a dozen times in the last few weeks. Maybe the thirteenth time it'll sink in.

    When you guys complain about the system getting abused, what you're saying is that you care about the system.
    OK! I totally get that you want to preserve welfare in this country. It's like a year past time for you guys to realize it now.

    Do I need to watch the other 30 minutes of Stephbot being pissed, or is that the extent of it? Is there anything new in this video, or is it just rehashing the same tired arguments you guys have been making and we've been rebutting for the last month here?
    I'm with you on this.

    The system is The Matrix designed to keep everyone a slave and yet people are screaming that immigrants will ruin the system.

    "Please. please, please, don't take my unconstitutional welfare/social security/insurance/hourly wage/massive regulations/spying government away from from me!" Nobody wants to address the real problems of this country- they want to keep their free $#@!e and have give the gov more control over them to keep them dirty brown people outta here.

    The country always did well financially with free enterprise and welcomed immigrants.

    And just for the record, I like Lew- just don't agree with him on this point.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Bastiat's The Law View Post
    Molyneux just owned you in this video.

    There is a hypothesis that increased immigration (which really means adding more people) is good for the economy. This video shows that is not always the case.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    When you guys complain about the system getting abused, what you're saying is that you care about the system.
    So, people shouldn't care about deficit spending and growing national debt (things which have rippling effects of all kinds), that will further burden future generations, lest they "care about the system." That's your argument?

    I'm not sure that really follows.
    Last edited by Cabal; 11-23-2015 at 04:27 PM.
    Radical in the sense of being in total, root-and-branch opposition to the existing political system and to the State itself. Radical in the sense of having integrated intellectual opposition to the State with a gut hatred of its pervasive and organized system of crime and injustice. Radical in the sense of a deep commitment to the spirit of liberty and anti-statism that integrates reason and emotion, heart and soul. - M. Rothbard



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    When you guys complain about the system getting abused, what you're saying is that you care about the system.
    OK! I totally get that you want to preserve welfare in this country. It's like a year past time for you guys to realize it now.
    No, not at all, but I do realize that we do have a system now and advocating policies that would bring the country down, would not magically result in the nirvana that some believe it would.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  30. #146
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-19-2018 at 07:41 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Caucasians didn't exactly improve things for the Native Americans either. Should have stopped that migration and kept them over in Europe.

    History is full of migrations. People constantly on the move. You can't stop it.
    Yup, and that is where all this is headed.

    The problem is unsolvable now.

    Good or bad, what passes for "American Values" or whatever you want to call it, will soon be an historical oddity, as odd and out of place as an Apache war dance.

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    What the hell has gotten into him?
    Care to elaborate?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  33. #149
    I think the problem isnt Open Borders by themselves, but Open Borders + WELFARE.

    Full Open Borders would have to mean there is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant". That is very close to what we have tho because 90% of Illegals are protected under current laws from deportation. Open Borders by themselves I dont think would be that bad. People would come and would work and expect wages competitive to those expected by current citizens. Making something illegal only creates a black market for it, Immigration is no different. Make it Illegal to Immigrate, then you create a black market for wages. In fear of deportation, immigrants tend to accept lower wages, and it creates a black market for hiring illegals which displaces citizen employment. The arguments against fully open borders are all very very valid, but imagine for a second how we can have Illegal Immigration, Open Borders and a Welfare State where the Immigrants that make it here are not deported and always qualify for all sorts of things that no citizen would ever get. If we want to make it even more complex, throw in Affirmitive Action also so no discrimination is allowed. Discrimination based on skin color sucks, but it has consequences also, such as total disregard of qualifications and places even more weight on sex and ethnicity playing a determining factor. Law of unintended consequences there.

    Big point I will try to make is the issue is complex, but the more that we try to add artificial solutions to the problem, the worse the problem gets, not better.

    ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm with you on this.

    The system is The Matrix designed to keep everyone a slave and yet people are screaming that immigrants will ruin the system.

    "Please. please, please, don't take my unconstitutional welfare/social security/insurance/hourly wage/massive regulations/spying government away from from me!" Nobody wants to address the real problems of this country- they want to keep their free $#@!e and have give the gov more control over them to keep them dirty brown people outta here.

    The country always did well financially with free enterprise and welcomed immigrants.

    And just for the record, I like Lew- just don't agree with him on this point.
    Not really and can you blame us. We are not big on sharing.

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