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Thread: Stato: America Should Charge the World for Defending It

  1. #1

    Stato: America Should Charge the World for Defending It



    http://www.wendymcelroy.com/news.php?extend.6748

    Brad here. I'm not sure Doug Bandow has thought his latest proposal all the way through.

    Today the U.S. underwrites the defense of wealthy nations across the globe. Washington should stop using the Pentagon as a global welfare agency.

    Uncle Sam at least should charge for his defense services, as Donald Trump has suggested. America shouldn’t be defending its rich friends for free.
    Bandow proposes that other countries should pay one to four percent of their GDP to the U.S. Notice that's not based on an accounting of services rendered; that's based on GDP...in other words, it's an income tax, not a fee.

    More accurately, it's a protection racket -- the same racket the U.S. offers to its citizens, whether they want it or not; only this time without the supposed controls of a democratic election. (Strictly speaking, it's a tribute. Making the occupied country pay for its occupation has a long and ignoble history. Perhaps Bandow should consider why the U.S. Constitution has a Third Amendment.)

    The proposal does graciously allow that other countries should be free to opt out of U.S. defense "services." How would that work for Canada, whom Bandow wants to charge $18 billion a year? Canada has only one national border -- with the U.S. And the U.S. does have contingency plans for invading Canada. Is Bandow suggesting that Canada will be threatened by the U.S. if it doesn't pay up?

    There's also a bit of historical revisionism going on here. Bandow seems to think that the U.S. builds military bases all over the world out of the goodness of its national heart; in a spirit of selfless altruism. Bunkum. The U.S. government builds bases around the world for its own perceived self-interest, sometimes browbeating reluctant countries to allow U.S. forces on their soil. Some countries would be delighted for the opportunity to evict U.S. forces. (Iraq for one, and quite possibly Japan, who have had to deal with U.S. military rapists.)

    It's also a bit presumptuous to charge for "the nuclear umbrella," as though that were an unqualified good, rather than a deadly risk that the U.S. and Russia impose on the entire world. I wonder how Bandow would react if his next-door neighbor decided to store a few tons of nitrogylcerin for "defense," and on top of that, charge Bandow one percent of his income because he didn't need to keep a handgun any more -- the neighbor would provide "mutual assured destruction." This is a service?

    At some level I wonder if this proposal is tongue-in-cheek, meant to highlight the silliness of the idea (being bandied about by Trump, among others). Or perhaps this is a devious way of getting U.S. troops out of other countries, while still retaining the approval of the right wing. Unfortunately, irony is a very dangerous and unpredictable weapon in the field of political discourse. As the saying goes, "when Congress makes a joke, it's a law."
    Last edited by Lucille; 10-05-2015 at 09:47 AM.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    File under "the oil will pay for it!" ...
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  4. #3

    NATO Leaders to Vow to Lift Military Spending

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-lea...ing-1409832341

    In 2002, NATO leaders decided at a summit in Prague that 2% should be the "benchmark" for military spending. Since then, military spending in most European countries has continued to decline.

  5. #4
    This is actually a brilliant idea. We spend so much money on keeping places like Afghanistan Iraq and Syria safe we should force them to pay a GDP tax.

    As well as all the other countries that benefit from this, Europe, Australia, China, Russia, Brazil, they all benefit from this and currently they are freeloading.

    They need to pay their fair share.
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  6. #5
    NATO recommends 'at least' 2% of GDP. As usual, America is exceptional and exceeding expectations
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  7. #6
    Someone explain the problem with getting paid as opposed to doing it for free?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    File under "the oil will pay for it!" ...
    The world already pays for it via oil. see: petrodollar

  9. #8
    If they don't pay, we should bomb them.
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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    Someone explain the problem with getting paid as opposed to doing it for free?
    Not into reading before you post, eh? Too long? Lemme help:

    Bandow proposes that other countries should pay one to four percent of their GDP to the U.S. Notice that's not based on an accounting of services rendered; that's based on GDP...in other words, it's an income tax, not a fee.

    More accurately, it's a protection racket -- the same racket the U.S. offers to its citizens, whether they want it or not; only this time without the supposed controls of a democratic election. (Strictly speaking, it's a tribute. Making the occupied country pay for its occupation has a long and ignoble history. Perhaps Bandow should consider why the U.S. Constitution has a Third Amendment.)
    [...]
    There's also a bit of historical revisionism going on here. Bandow seems to think that the U.S. builds military bases all over the world out of the goodness of its national heart; in a spirit of selfless altruism. Bunkum. The U.S. government builds bases around the world for its own perceived self-interest, sometimes browbeating reluctant countries to allow U.S. forces on their soil. Some countries would be delighted for the opportunity to evict U.S. forces. (Iraq for one, and quite possibly Japan, who have had to deal with U.S. military rapists.)
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    NATO recommends 'at least' 2% of GDP. As usual, America is exceptional and exceeding expectations
    We are also the major supplier so most of the military spending benefits us.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Not into reading before you post, eh? Too long? Lemme help:
    If a country doesn't want us there, we shouldn't be there. If they want us to stay, they should pay for it. Pretty simple. Lots of European countries don't spend any on defense because we have bases there.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    Someone explain the problem with getting paid as opposed to doing it for free?
    IOW: Someone explain the problem with being a hired assassin as opposed to being a sociopath who kills for "fun" ...

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    Someone explain the problem with getting paid as opposed to doing it for free?
    Because we didn't ask for this "service".
    And btw, you're not doing a good job at it. Why aren't you defending european borders from the muslim invasion?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    If a country doesn't want us there, we shouldn't be there. If they want us to stay, they should pay for it. Pretty simple. Lots of European countries don't spend any on defense because we have bases there.
    Ok, go.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    IOW: Someone explain the problem with being a hired assassin as opposed to being a sociopath who kills for "fun" ...
    So now you are conflating defense and offense?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    So now you are conflating defense and offense?
    No. They are.

    And apparently, you are, too ...



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    If they don't pay, we should bomb them.
    conventional, or nukes?...

    makes a difference in the long run..

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    We are also the major supplier so most of the military spending benefits us.
    Yes, building bombs and other weapons of war are great for the economy. We should build more.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #19
    Reminds me of those news stories where cops abduct people and then take them to hospitals to be sodomized by Doctors. The kicker is that the hospitals bill them for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
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    Peace.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Yes, building bombs and other weapons of war are great for the economy. We should build more.
    Can you imagine what would happen if we decided to cut ? Millions of people would be left jobless. We can not allow that. It is the only way to provide living wages to these people.

  24. #21
    Athens invented this, about 2,500 years ago.

    About the time it became too busy beating its 'friends and allies' up for its 'tribute' of 'protection fees' to invest any time to maintain its defense, Sparta marched into the Acropolis and commenced raping their women.

    There's something to be said for making your enemies, not your friends, pay. Tends to minimize the former and maximize the latter. We may spend as much on our military as the rest of the world combined, but considering our military is liable to pay upwards of six hundred bucks per hammer, that spending doesn't give me confidence that pissing off the whole rest of the world is a particularly bright idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    Someone explain the problem with getting paid as opposed to doing it for free?
    That's when you cease to be an ally and turn into a mafia.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    If a country doesn't want us there, we shouldn't be there. If they want us to stay, they should pay for it. Pretty simple. Lots of European countries don't spend any on defense because we have bases there.
    What a pitiful imperialist you are. Where's the fun of spending as much as the rest of the world combined on armaments if you can't shove your every whim down the world's throats?

    Oh, and I dare you to name those 'lots of' European nations that spend nothing on defense because we have bases there. In fact, you can't even say that about Germany. Only Japan much fits that description, to the best of my knowledge, but it's hardly European.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    So now you are conflating defense and offense?
    Offense and defense do get conflated, bubba, in the real world. Occam doesn't tend to do it himself, but by God he can spot it when it happens. And you could learn to do the same.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-05-2015 at 09:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  25. #22
    Then hire the mob for collections, and a piece of the action.

    Isn't that how protection rackets work?

  26. #23
    More accurately, it's a protection racket -- the same racket the U.S. offers to its citizens, whether they want it or not
    As such, it kinda makes sense.

  27. #24
    These control freak, scumbags have lost their minds.


    We must not be voting HARD enough.
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."



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  29. #25
    i'm so goddamn tired of military spending, military killing, etc. no one should be paying for this bull$#@!. I don't care who the hell pays, but I do know that I don't want to pay for death and am not in favor of taxing this country or other countries to kill and destroy.
    Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions 2019 MLS Cup Champions 2022 CONCACAF Champions League - and the [un]official football club of RPF

    just a libertarian - no caucus

  30. #26
    that's like punching someone's teeth out and sending them the bill to stitch your knuckles
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    that's like punching someone's teeth out and sending them the bill to stitch your knuckles
    A little trick the federal government has taught to your local police department, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    i'm so goddamn tired of military spending, military killing, etc. no one should be paying for this bull$#@!. I don't care who the hell pays, but I do know that I don't want to pay for death and am not in favor of taxing this country or other countries to kill and destroy.
    I am reminded by this thread of one of RP's greatest debate quips (from 2012, IIRC):
    To me, foreign aid is taking money from poor people in this country and giving it to rich people in poor countries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
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