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Thread: Trump: Middle East would be more stable if Saddam, Gaddafi still in power

  1. #1
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    Trump: Middle East would be more stable if Saddam, Gaddafi still in power

    http://news.yahoo.com/middle-east-mo...154942018.html

    Trump mentioned the countries in comparison to current efforts to drive Syrian President Bashar al-Assad out of power.

    "You can make the case, if you look at Libya, look at what we did there, it's a mess," Trump said on NBC.

    "If you look at Saddam Hussein with Iraq, look what we did there, it's a mess. It's going to be the same thing" in Syria, he said.

    Asked by NBC's Chuck Todd if the Middle East would be more stable with Gaddafi and Saddam in power, Trump replied, "Of course it would be."
    OK, I did not like Trump, but respected him for speaking his mind. Now, it looks like he is the only one running besides Rand with some actual real foreign policy pragmatism.



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    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    http://news.yahoo.com/middle-east-mo...154942018.html



    OK, I did not like Trump, but respected him for speaking his mind. Now, it looks like he is the only one running besides Rand with some actual real foreign policy pragmatism.
    I heard him say that too, but didn't he also speak of bombing them and taking their oil to payoff what we had already invested in the first debate?

  5. #4
    Trump is decent on foreign policy but terrible on economics and civil liberties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    I heard him say that too, but didn't he also speak of bombing them and taking their oil to payoff what we had already invested in the first debate?
    I think so.

    So, chances are, he'll speak what he needs to get elected, (like Obama), then do as his neocon masters tell him, afterwards, (like Obama).

  7. #6
    Hmm sort of seems as if he is stealing rand's talking points
    The ultimate minority is the individual. Protect the individual from Democracy and you will protect all groups of individuals
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

    - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

  8. #7
    At one time or another Trump has said something to make everyone happy no matter what side you are on. The only thing you know for certain about Trump is his character, a person that believes they have NEVER done anything wrong, believes someone else is to blame if things aren't going his way and a petty person that will go to all means to tear someone down if he perceives did him wrong. That combination is what should scare people bad in their country's chief executive.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotin View Post
    Hmm sort of seems as if he is stealing rand's talking points
    Yeah, he has been doing it since 2003 or 2004, before Rand appeared on the political scene.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    Yeah, he has been doing it since 2003 or 2004, before Rand appeared on the political scene.
    Uh, no he hasn't, have you read any of the things he has said. He was a Clinton fan boy, and has been until about maybe 5 minutes before running for president. He had no objection to the interventions of Clinton and has never spoken ill of his adventures in Bosnia, Kosovo, and else where.

    Please get your facts straight, or take this crap to a pro-Trump forum.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ten_to_d.html#
    http://www.nationalmemo.com/donald-trump-man-of-war/
    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/five-b...mps-candidacy/
    Last edited by hells_unicorn; 10-04-2015 at 07:14 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    Uh, no he hasn't, have you read any of the things he has said. He was a Clinton fan boy, and has been until about maybe 5 minutes before running for president. He had no objection to the interventions of Clinton and has never spoken ill of his adventures in Bosnia, Kosovo, and else where.

    Please get your facts straight, or take this crap to a pro-Trump forum.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ten_to_d.html#
    http://www.nationalmemo.com/donald-trump-man-of-war/
    http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/five-b...mps-candidacy/
    Interesting, no matter how hard I try, I can't find the words Bosnia or Kosovo in the Trump quote in the OP, the subject of discussion. What gives you the ability to see things that aren't there? I want to smoke some of that also.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    Please get your facts straight, or take this crap to a pro-Trump forum.
    You mean, a no-facts forum? It's not "pro Trump" what's driving you crazy, it's the mere statement of facts what you are unable to tolerate.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    You mean, a no-facts forum? It's not "pro Trump" what's driving you crazy, it's the mere statement of facts what you are unable to tolerate.
    You aren't stating any facts. There is no substance out of Trumps mouth nor from your posts. You should support Rand in "making America free again".

  15. #13
    Saddam actually had a Christian VP. we could have worked with him.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KEEF View Post
    I heard him say that too, but didn't he also speak of bombing them and taking their oil to payoff what we had already invested in the first debate?
    That's the approach he suggests taking to deal with ISIS controlled territory, which would ultimately be a huge propaganda tool for ISIS.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Trump
    Trump: Middle East would be more stable if Saddam, Gaddafi still in power
    Trump: I (who have been a radical left-liberal my entire life until my New York pals, equally inbred and retarded as I, suggested I troll the GOP for a lark) am shamelessly copying the positions of Rand Paul (who I have demeaned in moments of rash, pathetic, egomaniacal, stupidity - as if there were another kind of moment in my life), as part of my ongoing, pathetic attempt to gain public adulation, to fill the void created by my successful father's lack of approval of my unsuccessful self, consequent to my imbecility, incompetence, and in all likelihood impotence (hence the prostitute-like wives).



    Suicide is illegal, Donald, but I suppose it's "un-PC" or sumpin...

    Look into that.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 10-04-2015 at 11:21 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    Saddam actually had a Christian VP. we could have worked with him.

    I hadn't heard that about his VP. I had heard his doctor was a Christian.



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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by samforpaul View Post
    I hadn't heard that about his VP. I had heard his doctor was a Christian.
    His Vp was not Christian. His VP was Ibrahim Izzit Al-Douri.

    It was Tariq Aziz, his foreign minister and Deputy Prime minister. Aziz died in prison.

  21. #18
    You guys actually think these foreign policy ideas are his own? I think someone has been watching Rand Paul youtube videos.
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    Who spends this much time copy/pasting the same recycled links, photos/talking points.

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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    You guys actually think these foreign policy ideas are his own? I think someone has been watching Rand Paul youtube videos.
    Yeah, especially on the whole Libya thing, considering that Trump was a supporter of Obama's "regime change" scheme there provided that we "get the oil".

    http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/donal.../22/id/393742/

  23. #20
    It should make for a real interesting read here if Trump ends up as the nominee and Rand endorses him as well as his foreign policy statements.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It should make for a real interesting read here if Trump ends up as the nominee and Rand endorses him as well as his foreign policy statements.
    But it might not be advisable for you to post around here should Trump win the presidency. Your name will be well remembered for promoting Trump while Rand was still in the race. If you think you get wraith now, wait until President trump starts imposing facism domestically and wars for resources abroad.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    But it might not be advisable for you to post around here should Trump win the presidency. Your name will be well remembered for promoting Trump while Rand was still in the race. If you think you get wraith now, wait until President trump starts imposing facism domestically and wars for resources abroad.
    I never promoted Trump in these forums. When I discuss candidates I post the facts both good and bad. I have been doing that here for many years just like others have without complaint. The problem is the forum behavior changed where certain people just cannot handle facts or have an adult discussion when it comes to discussing other candidates.

    I agree though that certain individuals here are lackey followers of forum group think that have misinterpreted Rand's campaign strategy as a supporter directive to attack potential voters if they mention Trump's name. If you have to ask yourself are they really that stupid or is there some other motive for doing so.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Trump: Middle East would be more stable if Saddam, Gaddafi still in power
    That implies that neocons main goal is stability.. that is probably not what they want. Many reasons including profiteering job losses in weapons industry/MIC budget cuts if peace broke out.

    One look at photos of crowd around current DGP's masters suggests stability is not their main game:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5816015


    FF few more years of civil wars bloodbath:

    Trump: Middle East would be more stable if Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad still in power

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I never promoted Trump in these forums. When I discuss candidates I post the facts both good and bad. I have been doing that here for many years just like others have without complaint. The problem is the forum behavior changed where certain people just cannot handle facts or have an adult discussion when it comes to discussing other candidates.

    I agree though that certain individuals here are lackey followers of forum group think that have misinterpreted Rand's campaign strategy as a supporter directive to attack potential voters if they mention Trump's name. If you have to ask yourself are they really that stupid or is there some other motive for doing so.
    You've done a hell of a lot more than mention Trump's name, you've heaped constant praise on the guy, that's tantamount to supporting him even if you never said you'd vote for him. That will be remembered by others here that way, regardless to how you square it in your own head.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    You've done a hell of a lot more than mention Trump's name, you've heaped constant praise on the guy, that's tantamount to supporting him even if you never said you'd vote for him. That will be remembered by others here that way, regardless to how you square it in your own head.
    That is a stretch. If another candidate supports a policy that Rand or Ron has promoted in the past then I am not going to knock that candidate for supporting such a policy. You do more harm getting the policy passed in the future and to Ron/Rand by opposing the policy.

    Why do you think some forum members would do such a thing and what does that say about you that you continue to fall for it. If you are sincere in your posts then you need to take a step back and think about what I just wrote, the intentions of others here and whether they are actually supporters but rather are here to undermine support for Rand and his policies.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    Interesting, no matter how hard I try, I can't find the words Bosnia or Kosovo in the Trump quote in the OP, the subject of discussion. What gives you the ability to see things that aren't there? I want to smoke some of that also.
    A disingenuous and stupid post. Of course no one is talking about Bosnia or Kosovo any more. How asinine is it to assume someone would or should?

    The principles are the principles, and Trump has shown no sign whatsoever to adhering to the principles he is now pretending to embrace. Which makes it hard to believe that this embrace is real. And your sophistry can't change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    That is a stretch. If another candidate supports a policy that Rand or Ron has promoted in the past then I am not going to knock that candidate for supporting such a policy. You do more harm getting the policy passed in the future and to Ron/Rand by opposing the policy.

    Why do you think some forum members would do such a thing and what does that say about you that you continue to fall for it. If you are sincere in your posts then you need to take a step back and think about what I just wrote, the intentions of others here and whether they are actually supporters but rather are here to undermine support for Rand and his policies.
    No one is falling for it, and the 'it' in question is your constant spam indicating and trying to reinforce a belief that any disingenuous idiot that parrots a Rand Paul talking point is as likely as Rand Paul to bring those principles to fruition. But in fact, Dubya ran on a platform of no nation building. I suppose you're now going to deny that Dubya engaged in a modicum of nation building after all? And Dubya didn't even flip flop until after he was elected. Trump has guaranteed that we can't depend upon a single thing he says by flip flopping on every single subject he ever discussed. Sometimes in the same sentence, like last Sunday when he told Chuck Todd that under his tax plan, his taxes would go up but nobody's taxes will go up at the same time.

    Your trumped up charges of us trumping up reasons to dislike the guy that you keep talking about and keep trying to make more credible than he is are trumped and trumped again. You can't make any if that $#@! stick.

    But hey. Feel free to cuss about being refuted yet again. We don't mind.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-05-2015 at 10:22 PM.
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  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A disingenuous and stupid post. Of course no one is talking about Bosnia or Kosovo any more. How asinine is it to assume someone would or should?

    The principles are the principles, and Trump has shown no sign whatsoever to adhering to the principles he is now pretending to embrace. Which makes it hard to believe that this embrace is real. And your sophistry can't change that.
    To be fair, I tried finding a citation of Trump's support for Bosnia and Kosovo, and the only thing I found was a recent comment where Trump repudiated both interventions in July, about a day or two after saying that Bill Clinton was his favorite president. Trump literally can not hold a consistent position on anything for more than a day or two, if he can manage holding one for more than a single press interview.

    I clearly remember him either being supportive of it while it was going on (because those poor Bosnian Muslims, who were just as guilty as the Serbs and Croats for the ongoing conflict) or not voicing any opposition to it, and there was a heap of opposition coming out of not only Ron Paul, but a solid chunk of congressional Republicans at the time.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    I clearly remember him either being supportive of it while it was going on (because those poor Bosnian Muslims, who were just as guilty as the Serbs and Croats for the ongoing conflict) or not voicing any opposition to it, and there was a heap of opposition coming out of not only Ron Paul, but a solid chunk of congressional Republicans at the time.
    There is a massive difference between "being supportive" and expressing no opinion on the subject at all and one would think if you "clearly remember" you'd know which one it was.

    As for Bill Clinton, you should bear in mind that Bill Clinton is a member at the Trump National in Westchester and plays there all the time so Donald has sound business reasons for not saying bad things about Bill Clinton, who is literally a customer of his. Also remember that compared to the type of Democrats Trump has dealt with his entire life in New York City, Clinton actually was pretty good.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    There is a massive difference between "being supportive" and expressing no opinion on the subject at all and one would think if you "clearly remember" you'd know which one it was.

    As for Bill Clinton, you should bear in mind that Bill Clinton is a member at the Trump National in Westchester and plays there all the time so Donald has sound business reasons for not saying bad things about Bill Clinton, who is literally a customer of his. Also remember that compared to the type of Democrats Trump has dealt with his entire life in New York City, Clinton actually was pretty good.
    This speaks so wonderfully about Trump. Wouldn't want to lose a golf customer by criticizing a man that was blowing teenage girls off bridges in Belgrad while playing with cigars in the oval office. You trumpsters are so reinforcing the strong character of your Man.
    o
    Last edited by klamath; 10-06-2015 at 01:06 PM.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    There is a massive difference between "being supportive" and expressing no opinion on the subject at all and one would think if you "clearly remember" you'd know which one it was.

    As for Bill Clinton, you should bear in mind that Bill Clinton is a member at the Trump National in Westchester and plays there all the time so Donald has sound business reasons for not saying bad things about Bill Clinton, who is literally a customer of his. Also remember that compared to the type of Democrats Trump has dealt with his entire life in New York City, Clinton actually was pretty good.
    Expressing no opinion about something that was pretty cut and dry (us sticking our noses where it doesn't belong) is about the same as supporting it openly, every little bit of dissent is needed in order to stop things like this, and Trump was and continues to be more concerned about golf than he is about whether America goes to war needlessly and ends up on the wrong side.

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