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Thread: Why does Rand Paul oppose gay marriage?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    I like Rand better than all of the other Republicans, but his opposition to gay marriage makes me hesitant to pull the trigger for him. Aren't libertarians supposed to be about getting govt out of people's lives? I would describe myself as a left-libertarian. Is this some political play to get the teavengelicals behind him or Paul's actual beliefs? I remember Ron said back in 2012 that he basically doesn't care if gay marriage is legalized, as long as its done by the states, a position that I quite liked.
    If this is the issue that is a deal breaker for you, then it's probably best for you to go campaign for Bernie Sanders.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    I like Rand better than all of the other Republicans, but his opposition to gay marriage makes me hesitant to pull the trigger for him. Aren't libertarians supposed to be about getting govt out of people's lives? I would describe myself as a left-libertarian. Is this some political play to get the teavengelicals behind him or Paul's actual beliefs? I remember Ron said back in 2012 that he basically doesn't care if gay marriage is legalized, as long as its done by the states, a position that I quite liked.
    I think you all need to tone down how you engage new users and guide them to what Rand's position is, instead of being combative, critical and/or condescending to them for where they are in their journey toward libertarian thought. I found this threat quite irritating and the interaction with Stannis pretty damn rude.

    Stannis.. sorry.

    Rand's position on gay marriage has been that government should get out of marriage all together. His position is that it should be treated as any contract, where two people are free from government regulation and definition all together. It sounds like you may have gotten a different impression?

    Often times the position of allowing states to decide is merely a means to an end, though also grounded in 9th and 10th Amendment arguments. By allowing states to decide, it can then more quickly become just an antiquated part of history.

    In my opinion, there should be no benefit given by government for being married or not married. That is really only an issue with the present tax system.
    "Those who slumber on the path to tyranny, sink on the river to freedom." - Brett D.

    "I am not attacking you Eric. I am stating historical fact. Leon Trotsky taught Leo Straus everything he knew about Communism. Leo Straus set up shop at the University of Chicago. There Straus mentored and educated the godfather of the neoconservative movement, Kristol the Elder. See? It is not an attack, it is a statement of historical fact." - Random RP Supporter Spreading Some Love



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    Government plays a larger role in marriage then many people realize, such as in tax credits and child custody laws.
    People around here realize that fact perfectly well.

    That is precisely why so many of us oppose ANY government sponsorship of marriage - including any expansion of the already-existing government-marriage franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    I agree the ideal solution is to get govt out of marriage, but I think we need to be realistic here and admit that won't happen in the foreseeable future. So the best solution is to treat out marriages equally.
    It is unjust and unfair for the state to grant special privileges to some particular group of people (such as straight marrieds). But the ONLY solution to this injustice and unfairness is to stop granting those special privileges to anyone - it is NOT to increase the number of people to whom such special privileges will be granted. This is why "equality" is such an utterly bogus excuse in this context. Expanding government sponsorship of marriage to include gays does NOT increase "equality" - it merely expands the number of people who enjoy the special privileges of state-sponsored marriage to the exclusion and/or expense of others (such as single people and unmarried couples, regardless of whether they are straight or gay).

    It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that the "ideal" solution is to get government out of marriage altogether - but since that "won't happen in the forseeable future," the "best" solution is actually to get the government even more into marriage than it was before. (And this is especially ridiculous given that it will make the "ideal" solution of getting the government out of marriage completely even more difficult and "unforseeable" than it already was.) It's like saying that the "ideal" solution to the problem of government-sponsored welfare programs is to get the government out of welfare completely - but since that isn't going to happen right away, we should get even more people on welfare (in the name of "equality"). That is just completely absurd.

    Furthermore, the whole "we need to be realistic here and admit [it] won't happen in the forseeable future" thing is an unsupportable and utterly poisonous attitude to adopt. If the people who supported the legalization of marijuana had been "realistic" back in the 1980s (during the height of the "Just Say No" drug war hysteria) - that is, if they had decided that there was no point in staunchly advocating for the legalization of pot just because it wasn't going to happen in the "forseeable future" - then we wouldn't be seeing the successful liberalization of pot laws that is occurring today.


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
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  6. #34
    Ok now I see Rand's position was more nuanced that I originally thought. Thanks dusman and Occam's banana.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    What's fire-and-brimstone about it? The words "God", "Hell", "Judgment" and most of the other biblical terms were not used at any point by me in this conversation. I usually use the word sodomy because this website has a policy regarding the "F" word, and because I don't buy into the pseudo-science behind "homosexuality" so I don't usually employ that term.

    As far as using the word filthy (if this is what bothers you so much), I don't think I need to get into what usually goes on in these persons' bedrooms, but the word is befitting the entire concept of mistaking a sewer with a playground. I'm not playing rhetorical games here, I'm asking you a simple question, and if my direct language is a little too harsh for you, the problem here is not with my logic, but with yours.

    If you think that the government smiling down on buggery is more important than whether or not we bomb a country, destroy our own economy, and are run by criminals, your priorities are going to be questioned by others. You can either cry about it or deal with it. Your choice.
    This is a very good post.

    Hey, if you'd like to come onto my podcast to talk about important issues sometime, email me at wethevigilant@gmail.com - I'd love to help give a platform to knowledgeable people.

    That goes for anyone reading this post as well.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
    The fact is that homosexual marriage has been forced on the States and the people. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
    Yes. Especially taking into consideration that Christians, particularly, are being penalized for choosing not to violate the tenets of their faith traditions.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  9. #37
    I'm gay and frankly could care less about Rand's position on gay marriage. single issue voting is ridiculous, and Rand Paul is not exactly out there picketing against gay rights. I think he is playing the center (wisely) because he knows the GOP base still opposes gay marriage but if he comes out all Huckabee on us it will destroy his electability. He's walking a thin line but he's at least able to come off as "acceptable" to independents and some liberals who support gay marriage but also aren't single-issue voters.

  10. #38
    The government shouldn't have anything to do with the process of marriage but I do believe that states have the right to say who you can and can't marry. While I support legalization of same sex marriage, I do not support the supreme court decision to make gay marriage a federal law. Where in the constitution does it say that gays can get married? Where does it say that only men and women can get married? A federal ban or legalization shouldn't be possible without an amendment to the constitution.

  11. #39
    An interesting question, perhaps he still lives in the past.

  12. #40
    Doesn't he support a gay relationship? Very strange, I've never heard of it. But maybe it's his opinion, but I still don't understand. By the way, I have read a lot of different books and literature about love relationships between people. I also really liked the article about parting on this site https://breakupangels.com/why-man-wa...ter-a-breakup/ . Well, the fact that he does not support a gay relationship, I think it is absurd, because time is moving forward, and you need to already understand that the old days are over and now everything is different. What do you think?
    Last edited by Zussman; 02-20-2021 at 10:57 AM.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    I like Rand better than all of the other Republicans, but his opposition to gay marriage makes me hesitant to pull the trigger for him. Aren't libertarians supposed to be about getting govt out of people's lives? I would describe myself as a left-libertarian. Is this some political play to get the teavengelicals behind him or Paul's actual beliefs? I remember Ron said back in 2012 that he basically doesn't care if gay marriage is legalized, as long as its done by the states, a position that I quite liked.
    In hindsight, maybe because he sussed out that "gay marriage" was just a canard, a false flag stepping stone used to push the weirdosexual agenda even further into the flabby body politic of dying AmeriKa so that now we have mentally ill fat men in dresses making life and death health decisions like petty tyrants.

    And you can't say a thing about it, or you're a homophobic $#@!lord.

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 02-19-2021 at 11:46 AM.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayn Freidman View Post
    The government shouldn't have anything to do with the process of marriage but I do believe that states have the right to say who you can and can't marry. While I support legalization of same sex marriage, I do not support the supreme court decision to make gay marriage a federal law. Where in the constitution does it say that gays can get married? Where does it say that only men and women can get married? A federal ban or legalization shouldn't be possible without an amendment to the constitution.
    Government, Fed OR State, has no right to be involved in marriage. The whole license thing was created to keep people from inter-racial marriage & is totally a racist POS.

    What consenting adults do, should be between them, & no one else- they should just not have the power to force their particular way of life on someone else.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielleTucker View Post
    An interesting question, perhaps he still lives in the past.

    There's some irony in making this particular statement in a post in which you revive a 6 year old thread.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielleTucker View Post
    An interesting question, perhaps he still lives in the past.
    Such insight. Just what one might expect from a purveyor of clickbait spam...

    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielleTucker View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielleTucker View Post
    Wow, I didn't even know that. My friend worked for the FBI for a long time and he told me how difficult this work is. By the way last month, his director has avoided a 5-year director disqualification! As far as I know, they wanted to disqualify him for inappropriate behavior but the specialists from this company https://ndandp.co.uk/director-disqualification literally saved him. This story was even written in the newspapers and shown on the news so you may have already heard about this story.
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Define Terrorist please.

    According to, well, pretty much both political parties, the other party is now guilty of Terrorism.
    Listening to the mainstream media is like standing under a power line when the birds are migrating.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Such insight. Just what one might expect from a purveyor of clickbait spam...
    Here at RPF, we don't promote every conspiracy theory - merely the ones we've been made aware of. If there's anything that Ron Paul followers know, it's that bad things don't just happen; bad things require dark and insidious forces acting in concert and in secret to make them happen.

  19. #46
    I could care less if gays get married. Government needs to stay out of marriage and leave it to the churches.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    In hindsight, maybe because he sussed out that "gay marriage" was just a canard, a false flag stepping stone used to push the weirdosexual agenda even further into the flabby body politic of dying AmeriKa so that now we have mentally ill fat men in dresses making life and death health decisions like petty tyrants.

    And you can't say a thing about it, or you're a homophobic $#@!lord.

    One day it's gay marriage. The next it's courts taking away a father's right to protect his son from an insane mother who's trying to force the boy to be a girl.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #48
    If he's against gay marriage than that makes him awesome.
    Thee (God) alone will we serve and from Thee alone will we seek help



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  23. #49
    Based Rand Paul

  24. #50
    If gay marriage is the litmus test on whether to vote for someone or not, then that person is lost and has no clue on what is important.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    If gay marriage is the litmus test on whether to vote for someone or not, then that person is lost and has no clue on what is important.
    "Gay Marriage" has nothing to do with the libertarian leanings it's name would suggest.

    It is (was) a culture cudgel designed to silence opposition to the next waves of weirdosexualism now coming down the pike, culminating in two things: the normalization of pre pubescent pedophilia and "snuff" sex, whether filmed or carried out in real life.

    I say "was" because that battle is over, chalked up as another decisive win for the Marxist mob.
    Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings. - Heinrich Heine 1823

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    "Gay Marriage" has nothing to do with the libertarian leanings it's name would suggest.

    It is (was) a culture cudgel designed to silence opposition to the next waves of weirdosexualism now coming down the pike, culminating in two things: the normalization of pre pubescent pedophilia and "snuff" sex, whether filmed or carried out in real life.

    I say "was" because that battle is over, chalked up as another decisive win for the Marxist mob.
    I never understood the term Gay Marriage. I can marry a guy and not be gay. A MINO, Married in Name Only. Two straight guys who want to remain single in real life. One has a real good retirement package, the other has a real good medical coverage. Makes sense to combine forces. Government marriage is about money.
    Last edited by tebowlives; 02-23-2021 at 04:15 PM.

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