Trump Releases Tax Plan

[erowe1]

Yet the poor, low income and elderly will get screwed due to significantly increased prices at retail.

Please show the math that led you to this conclusion.

[kahless]

You sound like a left winger not understanding basic math. The CURRENT TAX SYSTEM is already screwing the low income and old people. They pay about 18-20% MORE according to ALL tax studies for goods and services TODAY because of the IRS.

So how is 14.5% more than 20%?

Wow. This is a very stupid question.

You're wrong because of what I already told you. This increase in one tax is more than made up for in other cuts. The net effect is a tax cut. And it's not a small tax cut. It's an enormous one.

Here:
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/econom...ax-reform-plan

Here we go, now the attacks start because the usual folks cannot handle fine details of anything that might be considered negative.

From the link erowe1 posted, "This tax would be levied on a business’s factors of production".

Here I describe that.

Lets say a manufacturer to produce a product purchases 20 items from 20 different companies. They will now pay 14.5% tax on each of those 20 items rather than 0%.

In many cases the manufacturer does not sell directly to retail, you have the middle man - the reseller. The reseller then pays 14.5% tax on the purchases from the manufacturer up from 0%.

Then you have the retailer that purchases the item from the reseller. The retailer then pays 14.5% up from 0%.

That is quite a bit of new tax for a single product that did not exist before and will increase the sale price of the product at retail.

The above I describe could potentially result anywhere from a 14.5% to 29% tax increase on retail goods. This would directly be harmful to the elderly and poor that have little to no income. There is little to nothing for them to offset as far as income.

A small company with few employees and a small profit margin there will also be little to offset with his tax cut if manufacturing a product requires many purchases getting hit with a 14.5% tax increase (where previously 0 was paid)

I really do not like that one aspect of Rand's plan of adding new tax where none previously existed. You do not give the government a new revenue stream which I guarantee you they will raise and abuse in the future. Unbelievable and hypocritical for so called Libertarians here to suddenly support a new tax or obfuscate that fact.

[erowe1]

Here we go, now the attacks start because the usual folks cannot handle fine details of anything that might be considered negative.

Details? That's the problem, you're blatantly ignoring and contradicting the details.

There is no getting around it, Rand's plan is a huge across-the-board tax cut. That you would even try to dispute that obvious, proven, mathematical fact, is really incredible.

You keep saying that the increase from the VAT will be bigger than the cuts. But the numbers prove you wrong. And you refuse even to look at them.

[Brian4Liberty]

Hannity was gushing over the Trump tax plan today like it was the greatest thing ever invented. It must be good!

Hannity behaves like this is the first candidate to ever propose a simplified tax code...

[acptulsa]

You keep saying that the increase from the VAT will be bigger than the cuts. But the numbers prove you wrong. And you refuse even to look at them.

It's awfully hard to confuse that one with facts once he has made up his mind.

If he wants that desperately to be dead wrong, he will be. The truth could bite him in the ass and he'd never notice.

[RonPaulMall]

Good point. And to the point that was raised above about VATs., the payroll tax really is regressive.

Rand's plan doesn't really eliminate the payroll tax. Payroll gets taxed at 14.5%. Only difference is whereas now half of the payroll tax is hidden and paid by the employer under Rand's plan all of it becomes hidden.

[erowe1]

Rand's plan doesn't really eliminate the payroll tax. Payroll gets taxed at 14.5%. Only difference is whereas now half of the payroll tax is hidden and paid by the employer under Rand's plan all of it becomes hidden.

That's not in addition to an income tax is it?

[Sola_Fide]

Hannity behaves like this is the first candidate to ever propose a simplified tax code...

How embarrassing. ..

[RonPaulMall]

That's not in addition to an income tax is it?

Well, there is a 14.5% income tax that the worker would pay, and then their employer is going to have to pay a 14.5% tax on the worker's wages, which is pretty much the same as the current payroll tax with two main difference. The first is the relatively superficial fact that the employer pays the entire tax directly rather than him paying half before he sends out the checks and then the worker getting half docked the other from their paycheck after it gets sent out. The more significant difference is that this 14.5% tax, unlike the payroll tax, isn't capped at $118,000 or whatever. This is why at the end of the day Rand and Trump's plans are pretty similar. Trump's plan is progressive in the different tax brackets. Rand's plan is progressive because it eliminates the most regressive feature of the current system- the payroll tax cap. Under Rand's plan, Dallas Cowboys WR Dez Bryant's new $14 million per year contract gets taxed at 14.5% on the employee side and then 14.5% again on the employer end for a total of 29%. Under Trump's plan, Dez gets taxed at 25% on the employee end, then 12.6% + medicare tax split between employee and employer up until $118,000 but then the the remaining 13 million and change only gets hit at 25% + medicare tax. So for a super high earner, Rand's plan is more progressive. But obviously you need to get well above the current payroll tax cutoff for that to start happening.

[CPUd]

Donald Trump’s $10 Trillion Tax Cut
Tax Plan Reserves Biggest Tax Cuts for the Best-off Americans

Earlier today, presidential candidate Donald Trump outlined his plan to restructure personal and corporate income taxes. A new Citizens for Tax Justice analysis of the Trump plan shows that it would cut personal income taxes by $10 trillion over the next decade. While the plan would cut taxes on all income groups, by far the biggest beneficiaries would be the very wealthy.
...

http://ctj.org/pdf/trumpplan0915.pdf

[acptulsa]

Well, there is a 14.5% income tax that the worker would pay, and then their employer is going to have to pay a 14.5% tax on the worker's wages, which is pretty much the same as the current payroll tax with two main difference. The first is the relatively superficial fact that the employer pays the entire tax directly rather than him paying half before he sends out the checks and then the worker getting half docked the other from their paycheck after it gets sent out. The more significant difference is that this 14.5% tax, unlike the payroll tax, isn't capped at $118,000 or whatever...

Just like the MSM you omit the biggest difference of all. For those making under 50 K, there is no paperwork at all, no deduction at all, no tax.

QUESTION

Scott Pelley just said on CBS that Trump's claim his tax plan is 'fantastic' or whatever adjective he used deserves a Reality Check. If Rand were to use the same description, could we shame CBS into giving him some coverage?

[acptulsa]

I guess the trolls think it's a good idea, or they wouldn't have stopped bumping this thread the instant I asked the question. What about the rest of you? If Rand uses that same adjective to describe his own tax plan, can we shame CBS into giving it coverage? Can we use Pelley's blather against them?

[RonPaulMall]

Just like the MSM you omit the biggest difference of all. For those making under 50 K, there is no paperwork at all, no deduction at all, no tax.

$50,000 for a family of four. And I didn't mention it because it is not a difference. Trump's plan exempts the first $25,000 of individual income too, though it does require you to send in the pesky "I Win" form.

[Brian4Liberty]

I think at least a week over due, but just as I predicted here he would release his tax plan proposal around the same time his poll numbers level off or dip. In some respects there are similarities to Rand's plan for business income and low income.



Business tax 15%, eliminates the death tax, eliminate loopholes, one time repatriation tax... More here https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

To compare against the rest of the field of candidates:

Comparing the 2016 Presidential Tax Reform Proposals (less Trump)
http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2...form-proposals

What amazes me about these tax plans is, why does the % go up in the lower and middle class income ranges? And stops at the end of middle class income?

Instead, how about

0-50k - 0%
50k-200k - 5%
200k-1mil - 10%
1mil-5mil - 15 %
5mil-50mil - 20%
50mil + - 25%

But really, 0% for all of the above would be ideal. And then tax the top 1% a 50% tax rate, since they control the government anyway, they should be funding it.

It's worse than that. The ultra rich will not pay more than 15%, so the higher rates will never apply to them. The ultra-wealthy generally use corporations to shield themselves, so they will only pay the business rate. The "progressive" rates in the Trump chart are B.S. The ultra rich will pay a lower percentage than an individual making $50k.

From Trump's website:

No business of any size, from a Fortune 500 to a mom and pop shop to a freelancer living job to job, will pay more than 15% of their business income in taxes.

By comparison, Rand's proposal does not have this problem, and thus truly cuts out one of the biggest loopholes.

So I am announcing an over $2 trillion tax cut that would repeal the entire IRS tax code—more than 70,000 pages—and replace it with a low, broad-based tax of 14.5% on individuals and businesses. I would eliminate nearly every special-interest loophole. The plan also eliminates the payroll tax on workers and several federal taxes outright, including gift and estate taxes, telephone taxes, and all duties and tariffs. I call this “The Fair and Flat Tax.”

Rand Paul for the win!

[P3ter_Griffin]

I'd prefer a revenue neutral tax plan. Need to cut spending before (or same time as) we cut revenue.

What I don't understand is how this is revenue neutral. The only increase I see in the table is capital gains rate of 5% higher on top earners. Is that really enough to offset all other cuts?

That is crazy talk. If soldiers want to accept printed money to fight, if individuals choose to buy bonds from a government with no taxing authority, or if people want to make donations, that is free will. If we choose to fight free will with a voting booth we should expect we will get the same treatment in return.

[Virgil]

Key Findings:
Mr. Trump’s tax plan would substantially lower individual income taxes and the corporate income tax and eliminate a number of complex features in the current tax code.
Mr. Trump’s plan would cut taxes by $11.98 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up reducing tax revenues by $10.14 trillion over the next decade when accounting for economic growth from increases in the supply of labor and capital.
The plan would also result in increased outlays due to higher interest on the debt, creating a ten-year deficit somewhat larger than the estimates above.
According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly reduce marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to an 11 percent higher GDP over the long term provided that the tax cut could be appropriately financed.
The plan would also lead to a 29 percent larger capital stock, 6.5 percent higher wages, and 5.3 million more full-time equivalent jobs.
The plan would cut taxes and lead to higher after-tax incomes for taxpayers at all levels of income.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/det...ump-s-tax-plan

-virgil

[Philhelm]

I, King Philip I, the Great, hereby offer the following tax plan in opposition to the usurpers:

1. ???
2. Heads on pikes.
3. You keep the change.

[fatjohn]

Rands plan would also do away with the IRS. The bureaucracy needed to collect the taxes would be significantly easier.

The current budget for the IRS is 13 Billion, Rand's plan would easily shave 10 Billion of that monster with 100,000 employees.

That alone is $80 per tax payer.

Thanks Rand!

[fatjohn]

Also Huckabee claims he's the only one to propose to abolish the IRS

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...rtax/73386892/

[acptulsa]

Bump

[kahless]

Bump

Another valid discussion on the 2016 campaign, so?