Name some Christians Constantine persecuted.Originally Posted by Sola_Fide
As I understand it, Constantine followed a policy of tolerance, not only for Christians, but for all religious/cultic groups around the Empire.
But later emperors after him, in a time when Christianity was much more entrenched in the Empire, did persecute religious groups that were outside of its control, including Christian ones.
When asked by a reporter what he thought of western civilization, Gandhi replied, he thought it would be a good idea.
Texts tend to hold very little information. I be more interested in reading the emails that the ancient Sumerians were sending to each other.The origins of human beings according to ancient Sumerian texts
Like Genesis?
..
The Council of Nicea was arranged by Constantine to deal with the growing influence of Arianism, and it produced the state religion the Nicene Creed. Arius and fellow believers were exiled and the following strong edict was given.
Ruling an empire and tolerance is a contradiction.Part of an edict against Arius and his followers
...
(1.) The great and victorious Constantine Augustus to the bishops and laity:
Since Arius is an imitator of the wicked and the ungodly, it is only right that he should suffer the same dishonor as they. Porphyry, who was hostile to anyone who feared God, composed a book which transgressed against our religion, and has found a suitable reward: namely that he has been disgraced from that time onward, his reputation is completely terrible, and his ungodly writings have been destroyed. In the same way it seems appropriate that Arius and those of like mind with Arius should from now on be called Porphyrians, so that their name is taken from those whose ways they have imitated. (2.) In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offense, he shall be submitted for capital punishment.
Name a trinitarian religious group that was persecuted.But later emperors after him, in a time when Christianity was much more entrenched in the Empire, did persecute religious groups that were outside of its control, including Christian ones.
Last edited by robert68; 11-05-2015 at 06:48 PM.
"After this." That's a convenient phrase for you to use since it has so much wiggle room. How much after? Long enough after that by then Constantine wasn't emperor any more. In fact, Constantine's son, Constantius II, who reigned after him, was openly Arian.
I agree. But your question was more specific than that. And tolerance and persecution are things that come in degrees. All emperors are bad, but some are worse than others. And Constantine was far from one of the worst when it comes to persecuting religious minorities of any kind.
By Constantine? I doubt there were. But persecutions of them did resume under Julian later in the 4th century.
Wow. Your response I responded to was only about Constantine, and his rein lasted until 337 AD. Rather than admit your understanding about Constantine was wrong, you falsely accuse me of using a convenient phrase.
I merely asked Sola "Name some Christians Constantine persecuted?" You're implying I said something I didn't.I agree. But your question was more specific than that. And tolerance and persecution are things that come in degrees. All emperors are bad, but some are worse than others. And Constantine was far from one of the worst when it comes to persecuting religious minorities of any kind.
Constantine is significant from an antiimperialist and pro liberty standpoint for the following reason. His whole adult life was about conquering territory and then ruling it (conquering Persia was next, except he died first). Through war (and Christs help according to traditional Christians), he brought back together the east and west regions of the Roman Empire and founded a new world empire with a new capital and trinitarianism as the state religion. He was a mega neocon.
Julian had power only 2 years, but out of curiosity name some trinitiarians he persecuted. Removing some of the state privileges Christians had isn't persecuting them.By Constantine? I doubt there were. But persecutions of them did resume under Julian later in the 4th century.
You did use a convenient phrase. The context of the conversation would suggest that you meant that state persecution of Arians happened under Constantine himself. But the only way your words are true is by interpreting "after this" to mean later. Shrewd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_of_Ancyra
Last edited by erowe1; 11-05-2015 at 06:51 PM.
I did mean that. You're not making any sense. Your "understanding" about Constantine was wrong and instead of just admitting it and being done with it, you've responded with straw man after straw man and now this.
His edict I posted alone shows your “understanding” was wrong, but I first didn’t also include the fact Arius and his fellow believers were exiled by Constantine. Additionally, btw, Constantine had both his wife and one of his sons murdered.
Says the GOC. We both know they need their grand martyr mythology.But the only way your words are true is by interpreting "after this" to mean later. Shrewd.
Last edited by robert68; 11-05-2015 at 11:09 PM.
In what ways? What is your argument in support of the assertion?
freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.
It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.
Our words make us the ghosts that we are.
Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.
The Sumerians include many more details, in writing, than Genesis does.
It has no collectivist "fall of man" nonsense to justify a "son of god" needed to "save you".
Last edited by robert68; 11-06-2015 at 10:29 AM.
No 'original sin' extortion guilt penalty paid for in weekly installments, in church either.
But, then again, where are the Sumerians now? Nibiru?
Modern Christianity isn't inherently authoritarian?
What happens whenever you get a group of any size of any sect of Christianity in one place?
Last edited by idiom; 11-06-2015 at 08:39 PM.
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
Yep!
That's a really funny image. I feel the same way about the church debates I read on these forums sometimes. But if we are talking about theology, it's different.Modern Christianity isn't inherently authoritarian?
What happens whenever you get a group of any size of any sect of Christianity in one place?
Imagine if a libertarian was questioning a conservative, and the conservative was affirming all the buzzwords of freedom and liberty, but the libertarian cut to the core of the issue and made him realize that he was really an authoritarian.
Is it somehow dishonorable that the libertarian was contending for the truth? Should libertarians just accept it when conservatives use the words of freedom and liberty, but in reality don't believe in them?
No, they shouldn't. Also, when people who call themselves Christians use the words of the Bible but truly don't believe what the Bible teaches, it is honorable that men speak up for the truth.
A historic neocon religion.
Last edited by robert68; 11-08-2015 at 09:42 AM.
Rothschild Zionist branch.
Was referring to the trinitarians.Rothschild Zionist branch.
Last edited by robert68; 11-07-2015 at 11:16 AM.
Most of my chats with an-caps have ended up at the conclusion that they are extremely authoritarian.
Just because one claims something, doesn't make it so.
Attempts to believe the entire bible as transmitted end up in some really stupid places logically. Its how you end up believing that there is no free will, but there is Just punishment, or having necessary places like purgatory and limbo.
One ends up with an-caps promoting infanticide.
In New Zealand:
The Coastguard is a Charity
Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
The DMV is a private non-profit
Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
A tax return has 4 fields
Business licenses aren't a thing
Prostitution is legal
We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care
If "having no free will" means the same thing as that everything is predestined, then it seems to me practically undeniable that it's true, and also practically undeniable that there is just punishment. I have trouble seeing how anybody could be capable of denying either of those truths without resorting to incoherence.
Defining free will that way may be debatable though.
Predestination is the only logically defensible position. Free will is a contradictory mess, and if you study just a little bit about both sides you will easily see this.
Also, it is the free will advocates who believe in purgatory. That is a product of their worldview.
Hmmmmmm ...
The Bastiat Collection ˇ FREE PDF ˇ FREE EPUB ˇ PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)ˇ tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ˇ
Without free will how is 'sin' possible (and punishable)?
Mono/poly theism.
Last edited by robert68; 11-09-2015 at 10:25 AM.
Huh?
Sin is possible because God ordains it for His own good purpose. Sin is punishable because God is the Judge of this universe.
Wicked people who sin have no clue that they have been ordained by God to do what they are doing. They don't even believe in the God of the Bible. They sin willfully.
Yep
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