Truth. Sola Scriptura has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with Reformation doctrine. (after all, there was no written gospel until ~70 AD and even then few people were literate)Originally Posted by robert68
Where did you get that? As a matter of fact, that was a quote from Jesus himself recorded by an eye witness in the Gospel of John.
"The Roman Church taught that the foundation for faith and practice was a combination of Scriptures, sacred tradition, and the teachings of the magisterium and the pope; but the Reformers said, "No, our foundation is sola Scriptura".(monergism.com)
Last edited by Eagles' Wings; 09-29-2015 at 08:17 AM.
All the books of the Bible, written over a period of some 1,600 years with as many as forty authors, contribute to the one message which God communicates to mankind. He is God, and salvation is necessary and provided in none other name than that of Jesus. It comes to us in the form of history, poetry, prophecy, etc. No passage contradicts any other; each complements the other.
How can that be explained?
There is only one author, the Eternal Spirit of God.
This is what Scripture claims for itself.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good work" (II Tim. 3:16). "For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (II Pet. 1:21).
(Pastor Kortering)
Have you read the OP free PDF?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lampswithoil/JesusvsPaul.pdf
Last edited by Ronin Truth; 09-29-2015 at 09:48 AM.
Even if for the sake of argument Jesus spoke those words, what I wrote is still true.
Last edited by robert68; 09-30-2015 at 07:54 PM.
How? You said those words weren't from Jesus.
He was responding to my remark "You didn't hear that from Jesus!", which is true. That was the context.
You meant literally hearing with the ear?
Yes
The only way that a claim can be verified is if you hear it with your own ears? That would make all of scholarship...not even that...all of life, completely incoherent.
Scholarship isn’t based on 2000 year old gossip and rumors and/or claims with logical fallacies and contradictions in them.
Did you hear Lord Acton say "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" with your own ears? If not, why do you believe it?
Edit: Also, what logical contradiction is in God's Word?
Last edited by Sola_Fide; 09-30-2015 at 10:16 PM.
My beliefs about power and corruption (or the state or free enterprise or rights) aren’t based on sayings like that from anyone.
It's too late for that now.Edit: Also, what logical contradiction is in God's Word?
What are they based on? If you didn't hear it with your own ears from a person saying it, how can they be true?
That wasn't the question Sola was asking, he was asking you if you believe Lord Acton actually said it or not because you didn't actually hear it yourself. This notion of nothing being true unless you yourself experience it has got to be one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard, and I doubt even Dawkins would try using it for fear of exposing himself as the quack that he otherwise is.
Fine, get some sleep and we'll all pick this up tomorrow.It's too late for that now.
Huh? I said what??
BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"
Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist
Use an internet archive site like THIS ONE
to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.
No, I mean the "original" languages. Translation requires a time-shift as well as a language shift and sometime a region shift. My wife is Chinese so we deal with "translation errors" from contemporary Chinese to contemporary English. Just imagine now we add time to the mix. Lets say we have an ancient Chinese document and want to translate it to contemporary English. Now we have to look at the changes to Chinese over the years and really, we have to use a bit of guesswork as we really don't have anyone who was alive at that time to explain the nuances of ancient Chinese. How about Greek and Hebrew? Sure, we have a pretty good idea what the words meant back then because it's documented pretty good but it's NOT perfect. And the "original" manuscripts were written at least 100 years after Christ so who knows what errors came about in that first 100 years?
Again, God is certainly ABLE to "preserve" his word but the Bible is not preserved. It's a pretty accurate record of historical events and quotes from people who lived at those times but it's not 100% accurate. How accurate is it? It's anybody's guess but my "guess" is about 90%...
BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"
Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist
Use an internet archive site like THIS ONE
to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.
Yeah, that's called lexicography. At this point, the science of Greek lexicography is very advanced. We know almost exactly what the words mean when they were used.
The Greek Orthodox Church reads the Gospel in the Koine Greek, as they were originally written, and has done so continuously since the first century. Likewise the Pater Imon, the Our Father. For from this same Church (as members of the One Church spread to all the cities spread far and wide) the Church which defended the apostolic truths alone can claim to have lost nothing in translation. The Church also uses the Septuigant, which was the version used by all the Christians of the first millennium, and still does so to this day. The same Church whose saints are the Fathers of all Christians- the forbearbers to every who call themselves Christians. This, according to the grace of Holy Spirit to the glory of the Father, and by the life-giving blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Just thought I'd share these interesting facts to those who might find benefit from it.
Last edited by TER; 10-02-2015 at 09:41 PM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Copied down for a thread topic reminder. Hint!
The Eastern Orthodox church does not defend apostolic truths. Election and predestination are apostolic truths that the EOC rejects.
The Eastern Orthodox Church does not reject election and predestination as understood by the Apostles and Church Fathers going back to the first centuries (see St. Justin Martyr for one example of what the Church believed in the second century as was passed down to them), but rather rejects the corrupted and innovative misunderstanding which started in the West and reached full and heretical distortion by the work of the heterodox Reformers over a thousand years later, which were completely against the teachings of the earlier Saints.
Last edited by TER; 10-03-2015 at 09:37 AM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Yes it does.
Justin Martyr didn't even have the letters of Paul when he was developing his doctrine. Justin Martyr did not have a Christian theology. Stop worshipping your church.and Church Fathers going back to the first centuries (see St. Justin Martyr for one example of what the Church believed in the second century as was passed down to them), but rather rejects the corrupted and innovative misunderstanding which propagated in the West and reached full and heretical distortion by the work of the heterodox Reformers over a millennium and a half later.
I don't worship the Church. And I am finished discussing anything with you since you demonstrate no knowledge of the early Church or the writings of the early Saints and have yet to share with me who these supposed 'Biblical Christians' are which you claim existed throughout the first millennium and whose teachings and practices you claim give proof and support to your own beliefs, practices, and style of worship. If you wish me to hold any creedance or value to any of these beliefs you have (which historically seem quite innovative misinterpretations of the Christian Faith), then provide some proofs of Saints of your Church through every century since the first, so that you might win me over to your argument. Until then, I will spend my time discussing and debating with others who can provide me with something more of value then your personal misinterpretations, thoughts and fantasies.
Last edited by TER; 10-03-2015 at 10:05 AM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
Key word "almost". Like 90% maybe??
BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"
Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist
Use an internet archive site like THIS ONE
to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.
Ya, I'd say they have it pretty accurate... maybe 90%. Of course I could be wrong and I admit that. Perhaps it's actually 98% accurate which makes me off by 8%!
BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"
Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist
Use an internet archive site like THIS ONE
to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.
When Justin Martyr wrote his apologies or dialogue with Trypho, did he ever mention Paul or refer to any of his books at all? Yes or no?
Don't you think a person who says they are a Christian would have a deficient knowledge of soteriology without Paul's epistles?
So a second century Saint and martyr, beloved by the Christians spread everywhere in the first centuries, who was born when St. John the Apostle still lived, and who was a well read and renowned scholar and famous convert to the Christian Church, and who lived in Rome and actually founded a school in Rome, the same city where St. Paul was martyred and whose relics where honored by the Church, did not know about the letters of St. Paul, which were the most widely circulated Christian epistles throughout the majority of the Christian world? Quite an assumption, but not a surprise coming from you who believes in a magical remnant of Christians which you cannot name one who believed and worshiped as you do.
Because St. Justin Martyr did not mention any specific quote of St. Paul in the two treatises we have, he was therefore ignorant of the Apostle's teachings? Indeed, his entire treatise stresses the same teachings and there was no need to quote what was already established to be true and according to the apostolic faith. But because he doesn't specifically name St. Paul, he therefore did not know his teachings or his letters?
If St. Justin Martyr is not a 'Biblical Christian', as you call them, then name me one from the second century. Otherwise, you continue to offer me no proof or anything of value, but rather your fantasies and vain personal interpretations and thoughts.
Last edited by TER; 10-03-2015 at 10:44 AM.
+'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ
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