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Thread: US interest rate rise could trigger global debt crisis

  1. #1

    US interest rate rise could trigger global debt crisis

    Debt ratios have reached extreme levels across all major regions of the global economy, leaving the financial system acutely vulnerable to monetary tightening by the US Federal Reserve, the world's top financial watchdog has warned.

    The Bank for International Settlements said the wild market ructions of recent weeks and capital outflows from China are warning signs that the massive build-up in credit is coming back to haunt, compounded by worries that policymakers may be struggling to control events.

    "We are not seeing isolated tremors, but the release of pressure that has gradually accumulated over the years along major fault lines," said Claudio Borio, the bank's chief economist.

    The Swiss-based BIS said total debt ratios are now significantly higher than they were at the peak of the last credit cycle in 2007, just before the onset of global financial crisis.

    Combined public and private debt has jumped by 36 percentage points since then to 265pc of GDP in the the developed economies.

    This time emerging markets have been drawn into the credit spree as well. Total debt has spiked 50 points to 167pc, and even higher to 235pc in China, a pace of credit growth that has almost always preceded major financial crises in the past.

    Adding to the toxic mix, off-shore borrowing in US dollars has reached a record $9.6 trillion, chiefly due to leakage effects of zero interest rates and quantitative easing (QE) in the US. This has set the stage for a worldwide dollar squeeze as the Fed reverses course and starts to drain dollar liquidity from global markets.

    Dollar loans to emerging markets (EM) have doubled since the Lehman crisis to $3 trillion, and much of it has been borrowed at abnormally low real interest rates of 1pc. Roughly 80pc of the dollar debt in China is on short-term maturities.

    ...

    China and the emerging economies were able to crank up credit after the Lehman crisis and act as a shock absorber, but there is no region left in the world with much scope for stimulus if anything goes wrong now.

    The venerable BIS - the so-called 'bank of central bankers' - was the only global body to warn repeatedly and loudly before the Lehman crisis that the system was becoming dangerously unstable.

    It has acquired a magisterial authority, frequently clashing with the International Monetary Fund and the big central banks over the wisdom of super-easy money.

    Mr Borio said investors have come to count on central banks to keep the game going but engenders moral hazard and is ultimately wishful thinking. "Financial markets have worryingly come to depend on central banks’ every word and deed,” he said.

    A disturbing feature of the latest scare over China is a "shift in perceptions in the power of policy", a polite way of saying that investors have suddenly begun to question whether the emperor is wearing any clothes after all following the botched intervention in the Shanghai stock market and the severing of the dollar exchange peg in August.

    "Financial markets have worryingly come to depend on central banks’ every word and deed."
    Claudio Borio, head of BIS economic department

    The BIS 'house-view' is that the global authorities may have put off the day of reckoning by holding interest rates below their 'natural' or Wicksellian rate with each successive cycle but this merely stores up greater imbalances, drawing down prosperity from the future and stretching the elastic further until it snaps back. At some point, you have to take your bitter medicine.

    ...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...-tightens.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.



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  3. #2
    We just knew it had to be coming sometime or other.

  4. #3
    Ain't gonna happen in the middle of the musical chairs game.

  5. #4
    IF (and still a big "if" though we should hear more later this week on that), any rate hike will be minimal and not have much impact on the US or the global economy. Some are suggesting just a one tenth of one percent increase in rates. I doubt it will trigger any sort of global collapse.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    IF (and still a big "if" though we should hear more later this week on that), any rate hike will be minimal and not have much impact on the US or the global economy. Some are suggesting just a one tenth of one percent increase in rates. I doubt it will trigger any sort of global collapse.
    The funny thing is that with an unstable system the event that triggers collapse does not need to be significant in itself. All it needs to do is tip the first domino. That's what makes it all so exciting! And your doubts about the triggering of global collapse are exactly as valid as the predictions of global collapse. Nobody knows. And that is part of the reason they keep spinning the cylinder and pulling the trigger.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Ain't gonna happen in the middle of the musical chairs game.
    You assume somebody is in control.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    You assume somebody is in control.
    Ahhh, the great Austrian economics fallacy. The market is driven by independent agents acting in their self interest.

  9. #8
    that's what they said 10 years ago. I'm still waiting on it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Ahhh, the great Austrian economics fallacy. The market is driven by independent agents acting in their self interest.
    yeah, we all know we don't have a truly free market, because not everything is perfect. If it were perfect you'd know it's Austrian and free, if it's not, you know it's not. Simply a litmus test any 3 year old can make.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    IF (and still a big "if" though we should hear more later this week on that), any rate hike will be minimal and not have much impact on the US or the global economy. Some are suggesting just a one tenth of one percent increase in rates. I doubt it will trigger any sort of global collapse.
    Zippy how will this one end:

    ?
    Today I decided to get banned and spam activism on this forum...

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    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.


  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Ahhh, the great Austrian economics fallacy. The market is driven by independent agents acting in their self interest.
    I don't think a person needs to subscribe to Austrian economics to be skeptical of the idea that some kind of elite global cabal is actually in full control of the world economy, causing (or preventing) world-wide collapse at will.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    Zippy how will this one end:

    ?
    Who knows?


  15. #13
    Need a collapse to usher in a new age of fairness.

    1. Guaranteed income.
    2. 100% tax on income earned over 10 times the national average income.
    3. Required 17 years of education. pre-K to Bachelors.
    4. Require even distributed housing based on income, race, and sexual orientation.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Need a collapse to usher in a new age of fairness.

    1. Guaranteed income.
    2. 100% tax on income earned over 10 times the national average income.
    3. Required 17 years of education. pre-K to Bachelors.
    4. Require even distributed housing based on income, race, and sexual orientation.
    Well , of course , # 4 is how the commies control the vote forever after they exceed 51 % , and they already have.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Well , of course , # 4 is how the commies control the vote forever after they exceed 51 % , and they already have.
    #4 is only a preventive measure to maintain the status quo, #3 is how you improve it.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Who knows?
    We really need negative interest rates. Imagine what 20 years of -5% interests rates would do - 64% reduction in debt. Obviously the government might use this opportunity to spend even more, negating the effects of the negative interest rate policy. I am sure this post will look funny to someone reading it in 2030 living with negative 20% interest rate.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Need a collapse to usher in a new age of fairness.

    1. Guaranteed income.
    2. 100% tax on income earned over 10 times the national average income.
    3. Required 17 years of education. pre-K to Bachelors.
    4. Require even distributed housing based on income, race, and sexual orientation.
    Am I on the right forum? This is sarcasm, right?
    Last edited by openfire; 09-15-2015 at 07:18 AM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by openfire View Post
    Am I on the right forum? This is sarcasm, right?
    Yes. Sarcasm based on the idea that a deliberate economic collapse is being planned to impose world socialism.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    Zippy how will this one end:

    ?
    In the long run, we are all dead.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Original_Intent View Post
    In the long run, we are all dead.
    yeah , but when I die I will be thoughtful enough not to leave loved ones debt .

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    I don't think a person needs to subscribe to Austrian economics to be skeptical of the idea that some kind of elite global cabal is actually in full control of the world economy, causing (or preventing) world-wide collapse at will.
    I agree. Also you don't need to be an Austrian economist to know that you can't print and borrow your way to prosperity. If that were true every country on earth would be rich. Since 2009 we've borrowed about 9T, printed about 3T and had rates at 0%. If there's no downside to that we can all retire. All we need is a printing press and we're set for life.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    yeah , but when I die I will be thoughtful enough not to leave loved ones debt .
    I agree. That reminds me of the Paul Krugman idea that debt doesn't matter because we owe it to ourselves. If that's true then theft doesn't matter either. If I steal a million dollars from you, the country still has that million dollars so everything must be ok according to Krugman.

  26. #23
    Haha people have been going on about this conspiracy theory for years, its not gonna happen ever
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    Zippy how will this one end:

    ?
    Well sure that debt looks big now. But in 10 years the current debt will be very small to the debt 10 years from now.

    Just got to keep it in perspective
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Need a collapse to usher in a new age of fairness.

    1. Guaranteed income.
    2. 100% tax on income earned over 10 times the national average income.
    3. Required 17 years of education. pre-K to Bachelors.
    4. Require even distributed housing based on income, race, and sexual orientation.
    Can we also require that 20% of people go to medical school, it would be great for our healthcare system and reduce health costs and etc its win win
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    We really need negative interest rates. Imagine what 20 years of -5% interests rates would do - 64% reduction in debt. Obviously the government might use this opportunity to spend even more, negating the effects of the negative interest rate policy. I am sure this post will look funny to someone reading it in 2030 living with negative 20% interest rate.
    That's actually a really good idea, would be great for economy of businesses has access to -20% interest loans
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    That's actually a really good idea, would be great for economy of businesses has access to -20% interest loans
    We are almost in this mode already with the inflation way higher than the zero interest rates. Access to credit as always is going to be a problem, but this is no different from the current situation. We have those with access to cheap credit and those without. The way I like to think about the rates is as a lever which controls the treadmill. The lower the interest rates the faster the treadmill goes and it is harder for people to not fall off of it, cry uncle and ask government for handouts. Going negative on interest rates is like entering a hyperdrive mode. Obviously these measures are going to be temporary, wink, wink.

    Last edited by timosman; 09-15-2015 at 05:18 PM.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Can we also require that 20% of people go to medical school, it would be great for our healthcare system and reduce health costs and etc its win win
    require? No, subsidize maybe, but not require.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    require? No, subsidize maybe, but not require.
    They will pick 'em when they decide they need to , you must be a little behind on how the commies run things .

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    They will pick 'em when they decide they need to , you must be a little behind on how the commies run things .
    yeah, I didn't go to school to be a commie.

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