Answer for Open Borders Cultural Marxists: American culture

[LibertyEagle]

The fact that you do not know America's historical values and traditions, goes a long way towards explaining why our country has slipped so very much.

Individual liberty, Self-government, personal privacy, personal responsibility, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, heck, the entire Bill of Rights.

The right not to be genitally-mutilated or beheaded because I am a Christian. The right of gays not to be thrown off the top of buildings, because they are gay. The right of a woman not to be stoned to death because she is suspected of cheating on her husband.

I'm sure others can add more to the list.

[Sola_Fide]

When you say "cultural Marxist", you know it's not accurate in any way in regards to the principled libertarian position on freedom.

When I say "immigration statists", it is exactly accurate. You propose that government should intervene in the market.

As for those things you mention in you post, where are any of those present in popular America culture? Where?

[LibertyEagle]

When you say "cultural Marxist", you know it's not accurate in any way in regards to the principled libertarian position on freedom.

Hardly.

"Today’s neocon favors the United Nations, undeclared wars, a form of socialism slightly milder than what is offered by Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi, steps toward world government such as phony free trade agreements, open borders, ..."
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...titutionalists

When I say "immigration statists", it is exactly accurate. You propose that government should intervene in the market.

As for those things you mention in you post, where are any of those present in popular America culture? Where?

There are a lot of people who still believe in those things. Including Ron Paul.

The federal government's number 1 job is to defend the country from invasion.

[thoughtomator]

When I say "immigration statists", it is exactly accurate.

No, it's not accurate, and only causes people to think less of you. Keep it up and I'll add you back to my ignore list.

If you're serious about having a conversation on the topic - one which we haven't already been through ad nauseam, don't start out by behaving with extreme disrespect towards people who in good faith hold a different opinion.

You of course already know the answer to the question, and really are just trolling for a fight. I'm happy to respond with an Operation Rep Burn, because that's all that behavior deserves.

[Sola_Fide]

No, it's not accurate, and only causes people to think less of you. Keep it up and I'll add you back to my ignore list.

If you're serious about having a conversation on the topic - one which we haven't already been through ad nauseam, don't start out by behaving with extreme disrespect towards people who in good faith hold a different opinion.

You of course already know the answer to the question, and really are just trolling for a fight. I'm happy to respond with an Operation Rep Burn, because that's all that behavior deserves.

It's not accurate? How do you propose to control immigration?

[thoughtomator]

Honestly, your desperate trolling is old already. You're trying to browbeat others into accepting your suicidal, flawed viewpoint by repeating it over and over and over until people get tired of responding to you. It's not going to work, and you're not going to be rewarded for doing it with anything but getting ignored and getting rep burned. So stop your babyish tantrum-throwing and accept that nobody is going to welcome in barbarian rape gangs because you worship a false god you call a market.

[Zippyjuan]

Honestly, your desperate trolling is old already. You're trying to browbeat others into accepting your suicidal, flawed viewpoint by repeating it over and over and over until people get tired of responding to you. It's not going to work, and you're not going to be rewarded for doing it with anything but getting ignored and getting rep burned. So stop your babyish tantrum-throwing and accept that nobody is going to welcome in barbarian rape gangs because you worship a false god you call a market.

"Barbarian rape gangs"? Which ones are those? How many of those are being let into the country each year? What country or countries are they coming from? How many rapes a year are they committing?



http://www.businessinsider.com/us-se...-trends-2015-7

[kcchiefs6465]

Honestly, your desperate trolling is old already. You're trying to browbeat others into accepting your suicidal, flawed viewpoint by repeating it over and over and over until people get tired of responding to you. It's not going to work, and you're not going to be rewarded for doing it with anything but getting ignored and getting rep burned. So stop your babyish tantrum-throwing and accept that nobody is going to welcome in barbarian rape gangs because you worship a false god you call a market.

Lol.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

When I say "immigration statists", it is exactly accurate. You propose that government should intervene in the market.

I guess Murray Rothbard and Hans-Herman Hoppe were/are "immigration statists".

[Sola_Fide]

I guess Murray Rothbard and Hans-Herman Hoppe were/are "immigration statists".

Its pretty inconsistent. I've read pretty much everything Rothbard has said about immigration and I think he really faltered on this issue. Walter Block has written some good refutations to him on this. Rothbard in particular seemed to adopt some strange positions during the times in his life when he was trying to appeal to the Right.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Its pretty inconsistent. I've read pretty much everything Rothbard has said about immigration and I think he really faltered on this issue. Walter Block has written some good refutations to him on this. Rothbard in particular seemed to adopt some strange positions during the times in his life when he was trying to appeal to the Right.

His arguments were entirely sound, and Block's "refutations" were fatuous.

[thoughtomator]

Its pretty inconsistent. I've read pretty much everything Rothbard has said about immigration and I think he really faltered on this issue. Walter Block has written some good refutations to him on this. Rothbard in particular seemed to adopt some strange positions during the times in his life when he was trying to appeal to the Right.

That's because no matter how many times people explain it to you, the natural state of man, in which the natural right to violence is the rule, is a form of tyranny - the opposite of liberty.

Liberty has prerequisites, which have been explained to you in great detail, and quite recently as well.

So take your anti-liberty jihad elsewhere. I'm sick of your $#@! and so are a lot of other people.

[Sola_Fide]

Honestly, your desperate trolling is old already. You're trying to browbeat others into accepting your suicidal, flawed viewpoint by repeating it over and over and over until people get tired of responding to you. It's not going to work, and you're not going to be rewarded for doing it with anything but getting ignored and getting rep burned. So stop your babyish tantrum-throwing and accept that nobody is going to welcome in barbarian rape gangs because you worship a false god you call a market.

Hmmm. I don't worship the market, but the Bible teaches private property, free market economics and honest scales, so I do believe it as part of my faith.

[Sola_Fide]

That's because no matter how many times people explain it to you, the natural state of man, in which the natural right to violence is the rule, is a form of tyranny - the opposite of liberty.

Liberty has prerequisites, which have been explained to you in great detail, and quite recently as well.

So take your anti-liberty jihad elsewhere. I'm sick of your $#@! and so are a lot of other people.

Anti-liberty?

What is a state control of anything? What is a capital control? What is a state intervention in the market of labor or property? What is a tax? What is a tariff?

Isn't that anti-liberty?

[alucard13mm]

This freedom of open border, being able to hire who you want, not needing to show your papers and etc will be short lived when the north american union comes online and bears fruit..

If the establishment and elite want open borders... why the hell would you want to go along without thinking what the ultimate and ulterior goal is. New world order.

[thoughtomator]

I'm done arguing with the well-poisoning blockheads here. From this point forward I will simply neg rep them at every opportunity.

[erowe1]

The fact that you do not know America's historical values and traditions, goes a long way towards explaining why our country has slipped so very much.

Individual liberty, Self-government, personal privacy, personal responsibility, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, heck, the entire Bill of Rights.

The right not to be genitally-mutilated or beheaded because I am a Christian. The right of gays not to be thrown off the top of buildings, because they are gay. The right of a woman not to be stoned to death because she is suspected of cheating on her husband.

I'm sure others can add more to the list.

What you just listed isn't a culture. It's the tolerance of many cultures, which is the exact opposite of the point you keep trying to make about how you think the government should force "American culture" on us.

[Acala]

I find it hilarious that it has been white, Christian men of European descent that have relentless, systematically, and intentionally undermined every aspect of what you list as American culture. And they did it with no help whatsoever from the people you now blame for endangering it. You act as if it the mythical America of liberty actually still existed. Our culture was poisoned two hundred years ago and it wasn't by brown people.

You could take every single immigrant who has entered the country in the last fifty years and deport them and nothing would change. If America wants to see who killed American culture, America needs to look in the mirror and stop trying to blame others. Trying to blame recent immigrants for what we have done to ourselves is a dangerous self-deception. And, by the way, a deliberate political maneuver to divert attention from the real issues.

[LibertyEagle]

I find it hilarious that it has been white, Christian men of European descent that have relentless, systematically, and intentionally undermined every aspect of what you list as American culture. And they did it with no help whatsoever from the people you now blame for endangering it. You act as if it the mythical America of liberty actually still existed. Our culture was poisoned two hundred years ago and it wasn't by brown people.

You could take every single immigrant who has entered the country in the last fifty years and deport them and nothing would change. If America wants to see who killed American culture, America needs to look in the mirror and stop trying to blame others. Trying to blame recent immigrants for what we have done to ourselves is a dangerous self-deception. And, by the way, a deliberate political maneuver to divert attention from the real issues.

So, since we have allowed the cultural marxists to move us away from what were our traditional values, we should throw in the towel and just let them have our country? Because, see, I thought we had joined together here to try to save our country. That's what I thought anyway. It wasn't until recently that I realized that some here just wanted it to burn; right along with their brethren marxists.

[LibertyEagle]

What you just listed isn't a culture. It's the tolerance of many cultures, which is the exact opposite of the point you keep trying to make about how you think the government should force "American culture" on us.

Much of what I listed are natural rights. I am surprised you don't know that.

And if genital mutilation and stoning are what you consider the "tolerance of many cultures", then thank you, you have just pointed out why having a border around our country to keep that crap out, is necessary. If you prefer that kind of culture, perhaps you should seek another country.

[Acala]

So, since we have allowed the cultural marxists to move us away from what were our traditional values, we should throw in the towel and just let them have our country? Because, see, I thought we had joined together here to try to save our country. That's what I thought anyway. It wasn't until recently that I realized that some here just wanted it to burn; right along with their brethren marxists.

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

[LibertyEagle]

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

The illegal alien invasion of our country is not the root, no, but it is one of the many tactics being used to bring down our country. So, hell yes, I will fight it. But, I will fight all the rest too.

Acala, the tactics being used against us are going to put us underwater long before any larger effort to strike the root will have a chance of succeeding. So, unless we bail the water at the same time, we are going to be done for anyway.

[Acala]

The illegal alien invasion of our country is not the root, no, but it is one of the many tactics being used to bring down our country. So, hell yes, I will fight it. But, I will fight all the rest too.

Acala, the tactics being used against us are going to put us underwater long before any larger effort to strike the root will have a chance of succeeding. So, unless we bail the water at the same time, we are going to be done for anyway.

People's attention is limited in time and range. Getting people to focus on immigration takes their attention away from our deep fiscal, monetary, economic, regulatory, foreign policy, and police-state problems without doing anything to solve them. Every article, every debate question, every tv sound bite, every headline, every line in a party platform, every thread on this forum that focuses on immigration takes away from work on root problems. It is a diversion, not an adjunct. It also divides people that should be working together and therefore makes solutions to root problems even more remote.

Immigration itself isn't a tactic being used to undermine liberty. ARGUING about immigration is the tactic being used to undermine liberty. Making immigration an issue of national debate is a far greater hindrance to real reform than is immigration itself.

[Sola_Fide]

People's attention is limited in time and range. Getting people to focus on immigration takes their attention away from our deep fiscal, monetary, economic, regulatory, foreign policy, and police-state problems without doing anything to solve them. Every article, every debate question, every tv sound bite, every headline, every line in a party platform, every thread on this forum that focuses on immigration takes away from work on root problems. It is a diversion, not an adjunct. It also divides people that should be working together and therefore makes solutions to root problems even more remote.

Immigration itself isn't a tactic being used to undermine liberty. ARGUING about immigration is the tactic being used to undermine liberty. Making immigration an issue of national debate is a far greater hindrance to real reform than is immigration itself.

I completely agree. And as you said, hypothetically we could completely end all immigration tomorrow and still have every one of our fiscal and moral problems.

The entire immigration debate is farce built on unsound economics, nationalistic socialism, and Marxist class distinctions.

Where are the people who believed in individualism and liberty on this forum? Wow....this election has exposed so many....

[erowe1]

Much of what I listed are natural rights. I am surprised you don't know that.

I do. That's why I think it's important to notice that you're the one demanding that these natural rights be violated.

But what you did not list were things that comprise a culture. The very same natural rights you referred to imply the right of Americans to adhere to a variety of different cultures.

[Tywysog Cymru]

Immigrants might be on average anti-liberty, but so are most people born in America. I do support ending the laws that encourage illegal immigration, but that will only solve a small part of the larger problem.

[Deborah K]

"Barbarian rape gangs"? Which ones are those? How many of those are being let into the country each year? What country or countries are they coming from? How many rapes a year are they committing?

I'm guessing you've never seen a rape tree. Well, I have!

[Deborah K]

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

Immigration isn't the problem, Acala. Illegal immigration is the problem. Like it or not, immigration needs to be regulated. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

[fisharmor]

So take your anti-liberty jihad elsewhere. I'm sick of your $#@! and so are a lot of other people.

Never in the history of my reading this site have I felt so fondly toward Sola Fide as I do now.

[fisharmor]

LOL those barbarian rape gangs sure do know how to hang drywall.