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Thread: ​Judge dismisses challenge to Arizona immigration law

  1. #1

    ​Judge dismisses challenge to Arizona immigration law

    ​Judge dismisses challenge to Arizona immigration law
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-di...migration-law/

    PHOENIX -- Challengers of Arizona's landmark immigration law failed to show that police would enforce the statute differently for Latinos than it would for people of other ethnicities, a judge said in a ruling that dismissed the last of seven challenges to the law.

    The ruling could signal the end of the case and gave a victory to backers of the law, which was approved in 2010.

    In her order Friday, U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton dismissed the challenge and upheld provisions that were previously ruled on by appeals courts.

    She upheld the law's controversial requirement that police, while enforcing other laws, can question the immigration status of those suspected of being in the country illegally. The U.S. Supreme Court also upheld the requirement, but the law's detractors continued to push their challenge at a lower-court level.

    Opponents have "not produced any evidence that state law enforcement officials will enforce SB1070 differently for Latinos than a similarly situated person of another race or ethnicity," Bolton wrote.
    {MORE AT SOURCE - AP via CBS}



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  3. #2
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-03-2018 at 08:23 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  4. #3
    Just wear a red hat that says "Make America Great Again", they will wave you through.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    So if a cop in Arizona stops me and demands to see my citizenship papers then I have to produce them?
    If it is a legal traffic stop and the cop has a reasonable belief that you might not be an American, than yes. You appear to speak perfect English, so it is unlikely the cop would have such a reasonable belief.

    What happens if I don't.
    I'm not sure. It's been a while since I've read the entire law, some of which remains invalidated by the courts. I think maybe you could be detained while there was an investigation.

    What qualifies as proof of citizenship (I'd like to be sure I'm carrying the right papers when I go to Arizona)?
    A driver's license from any state that doesn't give them to illegal aliens (such as California) should be more than enough. Have fun on your trip. It's hot, but it's a dry heat, so it's not too bad.

  6. #5
    If it is a legal traffic stop and the cop has a reasonable belief that you might not be an American
    What denotes "reasonable belief"? Looking Mexican (that is racial profiling)? In Arizona, 30% of citizens are Hispanic. Having an accent?
    What if you "left your papers at home?" Should you be arrested? Deported?

    Papers please!
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-06-2015 at 12:16 PM.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What denotes "reasonable belief"?
    Being unable to speak English is a good start.

    Looking Mexican (that is racial profiling)? Having an accent?
    Nah, probably not.

    What if you "left your papers at home?"
    I don't know; look it up.

    Should you be arrested?
    Arrested on what charges? "Should" is a value judgment, not a legal question. What do you think?

    Deported?
    IIRC, they'd be transfered to ICE. Under this President, that probably means immediate release.

  8. #7
    I know citizens who speak poor English. And immigrants who speak perfect English.

    Arrested on what charges? "Should" is a value judgment, not a legal question. What do you think?
    Not having proper ID. "Reasonable belief" of immigration status by merely looking at somebody is also a value judgement. It is impossible to tell visually or by behavior. Arizona has government officials and University professors who could theoretically find themselves stopped every day as being a possible illegal immigrant.

    "Driving while Hispanic" is not a crime.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-06-2015 at 12:38 PM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I know citizens who speak poor English.

    "Poor English, " or "no English?" Having extremely poor, little-to-no English while being able to speak another language is a good reason to suspect someone of not being an American. If someone is naturalized despite that, that's another indication the immigration system is broken. Whatever government official signed off on that should be in prison.

    Not having proper ID.
    I don't think that's a crime unless you're driving without a license.

    by merely looking at somebody... It is impossible to tell visually
    And that is why it does not constitute reasonable belief by any standard used in this law.

    Arizona has government officials and University professors who could theoretically find themselves stopped every day as being a possible illegal immigrant.
    Under this law, you can't be stopped for just looking like an illegal immigrant. I tried to explain this already, but it didn't register. So I'm telling you again. Try to pay attention.

    "Driving while Hispanic" is not a crime.
    That is correct, and it remains so under this law.



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  11. #9
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-03-2018 at 08:23 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  12. #10
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-03-2018 at 08:24 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    You appear to speak perfect English, so it is unlikely the cop would have such a reasonable belief.
    Do you promote talking to the cops? Or only if it's an informal English proficiency exam?

  14. #12
    xxxxx
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 07-03-2018 at 08:25 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  15. #13
    A sovereign nation must have borders and defined citizens. Without it, we lose our identity and laws or they get superceded by world government laws.

  16. #14
    We have defined borders and citizens. The question is are there really millions coming across the border so we need to spend more billions on defending it than we do now and raise your taxes to help pay for it? Do we need to expand our government and security apparatus to track people within the country and check papers on everyone to sort out who may or may not be here legallly? Or is it just part of a political blame game to try to win votes in the coming election?


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    My Canadian friend who's overstayed her visa (by over a decade) will be happy to hear that.
    I'm sure that members of this forum will be here soon to lament how she's been destroying American culture with her Canadian filth.

    Unless that sentiment is reserved for certain kinds of immigrants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    {Pew}
    Those numbers are phony. Pew distributes Communist propaganda. Why are you posting Communist bull$#@! to a libertarian forum? Are you a Communist?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I'm sure that members of this forum will be here soon to lament how she's been destroying American culture with her Canadian filth.

    Unless that sentiment is reserved for certain kinds of immigrants.

    Didn't one candidate propose a border wall with Canada? (but that of course would not stop the 48% of illegal immigrants like your friend who entered the country legally and simply over-stayed their visas).

    Note on babies- most babies of immigrants occur years after then entered the country- a normal event in life- rather than coming to the country while pregnant and giving birth so you can get more welfare. An exception to that is those rich Chinese women paying tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars as "birth tourists" to come have a baby, get a passport, and return to China.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-07-2015 at 12:06 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    Those numbers are phony. Pew distributes Communist propaganda. Why are you posting Communist bull$#@! to a libertarian forum? Are you a Communist?
    Do you have documented figures to contradict their numbers? Please share if you have them. Or are they wrong because they don't fit your own perceptions of the "problem"?

    "Vote for me and I will protect you from this EVIL HORDE swarming our shores to DESTROY OUR VERY WAY OF LIFE!"
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-07-2015 at 12:08 PM.

  22. #19
    Bear Stearns put the number at 20 million in 2005. Every reliable estimate has about 1 million new arrivals per year since then.

    Why are you posting Communist bull$#@! to a libertarian forum? Are you a Communist?

  23. #20
    Bear Sterns tried to extrapolate a national figures from how much money was sent from the US to Mexico and housing permits issued in just two communities (how one determines illegal immigrants by counting housing permits I have no idea- are all houses bought by illegal aliens?). They conducted no population survey. The author of that piece since concedes the total is lower now. Not growing by a million a year.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...28432695989918

    Others have estimated much higher numbers of illegal immigrants. In 2005, Robert Justich, then a portfolio manager for Bear Stearns, co-wrote a report putting the population at as high as 20 million, citing increases in remittances to Mexico and in housing permits in communities with enclaves of illegal immigrants.

    Mr. Justich left Bear Stearns in 2007 and hasn't updated his estimate. But he still thinks the government, Pew and CIS numbers are too low. "The assumption that illegal people will fill out a census form is the most ridiculous concept I have ever heard of," says Mr. Justich, who now owns a music and film production firm in Hoboken, N.J.

    Other researchers criticize the Bear Stearns analysis for failing to note that the surge in remittances might simply reflect better record-keeping. Nor would a rise in remittances necessarily mean a surge in illegal immigration. Using such figures involves "making a lot of assumptions," says Jeffrey Passel, senior demographer for the Pew Hispanic Center.

    Mr. Justich says that the number is no longer as high as 20 million, citing the weakening economy and stepped-up enforcement.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-07-2015 at 06:02 PM.

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