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Thread: Why Not Default On Student Loans?

  1. #1

    Why Not Default On Student Loans?

    http://www.rense.com/general96/whynotdefault.html

    Roughly twice as many people have student loans as there are college students. It’s tough to list all the reasons for this, but I’ll hit the highlights:

    First, higher education is, in many cases, wildly overpriced. Second, most jobs you can get with “generic” degrees can’t pay off the loans. Third, most loans are for four years, while degrees take six years—it’s easy to spend years in college and exit with nothing to show for it but debt and no degree to help pay it off. Fourth, loans go to anyone who can click a box saying he wants a degree, so lots of folks are being loaned money for no good reason. Fifth, college administrators, eager for growth, have annihilated standards so that it’s easy to get into a college, so more people are taking loans. Sixth, accreditation, which is supposed to restrict loans just to schools which are interested in education, has been subverted by college administrators so that there’s nothing stopping a bogus school from raking in billions in loan money. Those are just off the top of my head, but then there’s the big reason:

    No matter how desperate your financial situation, the only way to be rid of your student loans is to pay them off. There’s no bankruptcy protection against student loans. Pay them off, or keep paying what you can until the day you die. These loans are forever, for many people lured into this system.

    That said, there are a plethora of loan deferment programs that let you put off when you need to start paying, or to pay less now for bigger payments later, or whatever. However, many people see their minimum wage (or less) paychecks, look at the expected monthly payment on the student loan for the education that is only worth minimum wage, and say “this is ridiculous, I’m just not going to pay.”

    A recent NY Times piece discusses one person’s journey into deciding to simply default on the loans:

    Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face…

    I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.


    Now, I’m not necessarily recommending this. “This’ll ruin your credit,” is the most common threat against defaulting, but I’m not so sure this is much of a penalty. If you have a massive debt hanging over your head, your credit isn’t that good anyway. At least, in theory.

    There’s a moral issue to not repaying loans, but student loans are a very different matter than other consumer loans. Much like cigarette addiction, these loans are generally inflicted on the young, who simply don’t realize what they’re signing up for. Just as tobacco company executives are viewed with disdain for targeting children for their product, so too can a case be made that college administration’s efforts to trap people into these inescapable debts is also immoral. In many cases the infliction of these loans has been unconscionable, so defaulting on these loans is no more immoral than being addicted to smoking.

    The person who’s decided to default, by the way, is no kid, and has made the decision to give up on paying off the loans after careful deliberation:

    Forty years after I took out my first student loan, and 30 years after getting my last, the Department of Education is still pursuing the unpaid balance. My mother, who co-signed some of the loans, is dead. The banks that made them have all gone under. I doubt that anyone can even find the promissory notes. The accrued interest, combined with the collection agencies’ opulent fees, is now several times the principal.

    ...
    (Full Article on Link)

    Philsophically, it sounds like a perfectly legitimate argument to me. You can default on other types of debt, but when you try to self-improve, you cant? Does that sound like a legitimate loan or is that predatory lending? You cant escape debt for things that may truly better you, but you can escape debt for worthless material possesions? The word Mortgage comes from two root words, Mort and Gage, where Mort, being akin to other words like Mortal basically means death, and Gage is akin to Engage is latin for "Contract". Thus "Mort" + "Gage" is literally translated to Death Contract. Most people are familiar with a Mortgage being related to a loan taken out against ones house. But is this not essentially what Student Loans are, a Death Contract? Since many student loans will trap students in debt for the rest of their lives, often times with absolutely nothing to show for it, is this not exactly what a Death Contract is? If you buy a house, that is a lot of money, so one could see that taking a lifetime to pay off. But in terms of Education, when the education is flat out worthless, what is the newly created debt-slave getting in exchange out of it? When it is truly wothless, why should such a debt be considered non dischargable? Why would the financial elite want such types of debt to be non dischargable? Shouldnt loans for things considered worthless be dischargable?

    I swear the US is now the Land of Opposites.
    - Freedom is Slavery
    - Sickness is Health
    - War is Peace
    - Debt is Wealth
    - Supidity is Wisdom
    - Love is Hate
    - Death is Life

    Should a person ever ask the question "what can I do to be the best person I could ever be", the only advice I might ever be able to offeri is to look at what the US does and do the exact opposite.

    ---

    For the record, I am not against learning, I am fully against Education when it is used as a form of Indoctrination and a path to Debt Enslavement. Mark Twain once said "never let school stand in the way of learning", which is exactly what is happening.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    I've made these exact arguments on RPFs a few times against the student loan industry and bankruptcy laws and the insane corruption that goes on because of regime involvement...but an awful lot of people try to argue that student loans are a legitimate industry issuing legit contracts. I still don't buy that argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  4. #3
    Why honor any contracts or agreements?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Why honor any contracts or agreements?
    Not sure if srs...but if so, it's because the agreements are voluntary and neither party is defrauding the other. I could come up with other reasons, but I'm busy ATM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  6. #5
    when I became educated about how the monetary system worked. I got out of "debt" as fast as I could.
    I will not allow any "funny money" to be created in my name.
    my understanding is that in a debt based system, once the debt is issued. it sits there on the balance sheet of the bank.
    the bank can then. leverage these "funds" 9 times. (fractional reserve banking)

    the bankers are playing with the "money" created in your name.

    the only way this monster can be defeated is to beat them at their own game.

    GET OUT OF DEBT!

  7. #6
    I have a friend who is 63 years old. She is a professional student, who uses student loans and pell grants to pocket $3,500. every semester (3 months roughly). She doesn't own anything the government can lien upon her death, so her theory is she will stay in school, continue changing course of study, and get that $1,000. plus per month to go to online community college until she dies. So far, she has done this successfully for three years now.

    She was in the workforce, paying into the system for 40 plus years; so I guess I would rather see her milk the system then some drug cartel illegal alien who crossed the border 15 minutes ago.

  8. #7
    No matter how desperate your financial situation, the only way to be rid of your student loans is to pay them off. There’s no bankruptcy protection against student loans. Pay them off, or keep paying what you can until the day you die. These loans are forever, for many people lured into this system.
    Things are changing, however the "free community college" is because HS are failing to educate people. Colleges keep raising tuition because financial aid is there. it's rising faster than available aid. Lots of gvmt meddling is messing things up.


    http://www.usnews.com/education/best...cipate-in-2015

    3. Pay As You Earn is set to expand.​ President Barack Obama announced plans last ​June to expand access to Pay As You Earn, a federal repayment program that allows borrowers to limit student loan payments to 10 percent of their discretionary income and forgives the remaining balance after 20 years.

    Currently, only relatively recent borrowers have access to the plan. Students who borrowed before October 2007 or haven't borrowed since October 2011 can't access PAYE but may repay through different, less generous income-driven plans.

    The expansion would make borrowers who took out earlier loans eligible to switch into Pay As You Earn.

    The Department of Education estimates that as many as 5 million borrowers will become eligible to enroll in Pay As You Earn after the expansion, which is slated for late 2015.

    "[Obama] wanted this to be in effect by December of this year," says McClean. "That would be assuming that everything goes on time."

    -t

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne View Post
    I have a friend who is 63 years old. She is a professional student, who uses student loans and pell grants to pocket $3,500. every semester (3 months roughly). She doesn't own anything the government can lien upon her death, so her theory is she will stay in school, continue changing course of study, and get that $1,000. plus per month to go to online community college until she dies. So far, she has done this successfully for three years now.

    She was in the workforce, paying into the system for 40 plus years; so I guess I would rather see her milk the system then some drug cartel illegal alien who crossed the border 15 minutes ago.
    yes Love.
    there are but 2 ways to defeat the monster.

    starve it or milk it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    Things are changing, however the "free community college" is because HS are failing to educate people. Colleges keep raising tuition because financial aid is there. it's rising faster than available aid. Lots of gvmt meddling is messing things up.


    http://www.usnews.com/education/best...cipate-in-2015

    3. Pay As You Earn is set to expand.​ President Barack Obama announced plans last ​June to expand access to Pay As You Earn, a federal repayment program that allows borrowers to limit student loan payments to 10 percent of their discretionary income and forgives the remaining balance after 20 years.

    Currently, only relatively recent borrowers have access to the plan. Students who borrowed before October 2007 or haven't borrowed since October 2011 can't access PAYE but may repay through different, less generous income-driven plans.

    The expansion would make borrowers who took out earlier loans eligible to switch into Pay As You Earn.

    The Department of Education estimates that as many as 5 million borrowers will become eligible to enroll in Pay As You Earn after the expansion, which is slated for late 2015.

    "[Obama] wanted this to be in effect by December of this year," says McClean. "That would be assuming that everything goes on time."

    -t
    so, they are desperate to keep those notes on the balance sheet?

    does this surprise you?

    where is zippy when I need him?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    yes Love.
    there are but 2 ways to defeat the monster.

    starve it or milk it.
    That's quotable.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  13. #11
    "You must spread some rep around before giving it to DamianTV again"

    Can someone cover me?

    -t

  14. #12
    I have a friend who is brilliant and speaks several languages but can only find low paying jobs. He'd like to go to college but way back when he was an 18-year-old who had just aged out of foster care he took out a student loan. Nobody told him that because of aging out of foster care he was supposed to get to go to college for free. Now he's in his 30s and his small loan has ballooned into an enormous amount that he will probably never be able to pay off.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by catfeathers View Post
    I have a friend who is brilliant and speaks several languages but can only find low paying jobs. He'd like to go to college but way back when he was an 18-year-old who had just aged out of foster care he took out a student loan. Nobody told him that because of aging out of foster care he was supposed to get to go to college for free. Now he's in his 30s and his small loan has ballooned into an enormous amount that he will probably never be able to pay off.
    There's most likely a gov'ment program for that. As an aside, this isn't a unique problem. My dad was still paying off his student loans in his 40s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  16. #14
    no one is forcing these people to take these loans. I paid my way and I still regret it, even though I have no debt. College for me was like daycare for adults.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    http://www.rense.com/general96/whynotdefault.html



    (Full Article on Link)

    Philsophically, it sounds like a perfectly legitimate argument to me. You can default on other types of debt, but when you try to self-improve, you cant? Does that sound like a legitimate loan or is that predatory lending? You cant escape debt for things that may truly better you, but you can escape debt for worthless material possesions? The word Mortgage comes from two root words, Mort and Gage, where Mort, being akin to other words like Mortal basically means death, and Gage is akin to Engage is latin for "Contract". Thus "Mort" + "Gage" is literally translated to Death Contract. Most people are familiar with a Mortgage being related to a loan taken out against ones house. But is this not essentially what Student Loans are, a Death Contract? Since many student loans will trap students in debt for the rest of their lives, often times with absolutely nothing to show for it, is this not exactly what a Death Contract is? If you buy a house, that is a lot of money, so one could see that taking a lifetime to pay off. But in terms of Education, when the education is flat out worthless, what is the newly created debt-slave getting in exchange out of it? When it is truly wothless, why should such a debt be considered non dischargable? Why would the financial elite want such types of debt to be non dischargable? Shouldnt loans for things considered worthless be dischargable?

    I swear the US is now the Land of Opposites.
    - Freedom is Slavery
    - Sickness is Health
    - War is Peace
    - Debt is Wealth
    - Supidity is Wisdom
    - Love is Hate
    - Death is Life

    Should a person ever ask the question "what can I do to be the best person I could ever be", the only advice I might ever be able to offeri is to look at what the US does and do the exact opposite.

    ---

    For the record, I am not against learning, I am fully against Education when it is used as a form of Indoctrination and a path to Debt Enslavement. Mark Twain once said "never let school stand in the way of learning", which is exactly what is happening.
    You've got us by the balls; those of us that did not go to college but still pay the taxes which pay for the loans.

    How about this, general public: Don't go to college. Get a job in agriculture and stop bitching about immigrants taking jobs that you never wanted in the first place. You don't have to sit on your ass shuffling papers around for a living. Wah, you've got it so bad having to get a student loan and living like a high schooler for 4 more years. My crocodile tears can't be contained.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Not sure if srs...but if so, it's because the agreements are voluntary and neither party is defrauding the other. I could come up with other reasons, but I'm busy ATM.
    Was there fraud when the student took out the loan? Was the agreement voluntary or were they forced into it?

    If somebody defaults on a home loan or a car loan- they can lose that property. If you default on a student loan can you be forced to forfeit your education or degree earned?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-07-2015 at 01:04 PM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    "You must spread some rep around before giving it to DamianTV again"

    Can someone cover me?
    -t
    Gotcha!
    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Was there fraud when the student took out the loan? Was the agreement voluntary or were they forced into it?

    If somebody defaults on a home loan or a car loan- they can lose that property. If you default on a student loan can you be forced to forfeit your education or degree earned?
    That's why it's the height of stupidity to loan that money. If not for buying out politicians to overturn bankruptcy laws, these banksters would have lost their shirts. Now they make their money. College is too expensive to work ones way through and you have kids indoctrinated through 12 years of "education" and advice from "education counselors" that the way to succeed is to take out a loan for ANY degree.

    Yeah the kids can investigate, but they tend to naively trust their teachers. Seeing what a fraud it is, is the true education. Unfortunately it's through experience when it's too late.
    Last edited by RJB; 09-07-2015 at 07:49 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    yes Love.
    there are but 2 ways to defeat the monster.

    starve it or milk it.
    Yeah, point well taken. But that is our system. I wonder if I knew how it worked, if I would have sponged off of it all my life. But the thought never crossed my mind.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If somebody defaults on a home loan or a car loan- they can lose that property. If you default on a student loan can you be forced to forfeit your education or degree earned?
    Nope. I guess that's tough $#@! for the lender, then, isn't it? Whose fault is it that the lender didn't bother to get collateral for the loan? I hope there is a massive movement by everyone to default on their student loans (I don't have any, by the way). That's the fastest way to kill the program and kick start the massive reset needed in higher education.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Nope. I guess that's tough $#@! for the lender, then, isn't it? Whose fault is it that the lender didn't bother to get collateral for the loan? I hope there is a massive movement by everyone to default on their student loans (I don't have any, by the way). That's the fastest way to kill the program and kick start the massive reset needed in higher education.
    Morally speaking, I am inclined to say that they ought to pay back the loans they took out.

    Personally speaking, I can't find myself much caring about the plight of the creditor when said creditor is subsidized by all and they target propagandized youth when pimping their lifelong brand of debt.

    Their lending practices, yet again, lack any sort of common sense. They give drug addicts thousands of dollars in a single instance and then are going to have the audacity to act surprised when it is not repaid.

    Them being bailed out will be the final nail in the coffin which is the dollar.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  25. #22
    No matter how desperate your financial situation, the only way to be rid of your student loans is to pay them off.
    They say that as if they think it's strange that someone who borrows money on the promise that they will pay it back with interest should keep that promise.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    They say that as if they think it's strange that someone who borrows money on the promise that they will pay it back with interest should keep that promise.
    Right. Geez, folks. Quit looking for the easy way out. If you borrow money, pay it back.

    Yeah, it sucks. And yeah, the system sucks. I'm not sure that I'd call it "predatory", but you shouldn't allow yourself to be the prey. Yes, they ran up the price of college education. Yeah, they try to make you believe you need it. But damn. If they gave you the money, pay it back.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Right. Geez, folks. Quit looking for the easy way out. If you borrow money, pay it back.

    Yeah, it sucks. And yeah, the system sucks. I'm not sure that I'd call it "predatory", but you shouldn't allow yourself to be the prey. Yes, they ran up the price of college education. Yeah, they try to make you believe you need it. But damn. If they gave you the money, pay it back.
    This sounds very good (I'm paying my loans myself), but as I've said on every thread on this topic... 1) government intervention is what got lenders to lend to people with no collateral, business plan, anything. 2) Eating the loss on bad loans may be what it takes for the student lending industry to get its $#@! together

    I think both sides of this argument are valid, but considering the loans weren't issued rationally due to regime intervention, I'd prefer to let the students off and give the bill to congressmen personally (dating back to when the gov'ment loan industry began) as well as the various other scoundrels involved in the affair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Morally speaking, I am inclined to say that they ought to pay back the loans they took out.

    Personally speaking, I can't find myself much caring about the plight of the creditor when said creditor is subsidized by all and they target propagandized youth when pimping their lifelong brand of debt.

    Their lending practices, yet again, lack any sort of common sense. They give drug addicts thousands of dollars in a single instance and then are going to have the audacity to act surprised when it is not repaid.

    Them being bailed out will be the final nail in the coffin which is the dollar.
    +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    This sounds very good (I'm paying my loans myself), but as I've said on every thread on this topic... 1) government intervention is what got lenders to lend to people with no collateral, business plan, anything. 2) Eating the loss on bad loans may be what it takes for the student lending industry to get its $#@! together

    I think both sides of this argument are valid, but considering the loans weren't issued rationally due to regime intervention, I'd prefer to let the students off and give the bill to congressmen personally (dating back to when the gov'ment loan industry began) as well as the various other scoundrels involved in the affair.
    So instead of a government-backed loan program, a government-backed entitlement instead? Let's not be coy. If you're talking about giving people money that they don't have to pay back, it's just a handout. Screw 'em, I say. You got in bed with the State, live with the herpes.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So instead of a government-backed loan program, a government-backed entitlement instead? Let's not be coy. If you're talking about giving people money that they don't have to pay back, it's just a handout. Screw 'em, I say. You got in bed with the State, live with the herpes.
    When the loans are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, they aren't ever going to be able to pay them back.

    Essentially they'll be debt slaves for the remainder of their lives never being able to own a home.

    This is what they sell to children throughout the course of 17,500 hours of forced attendance. Now are those who took the loans ultimately to blame? Yes, of course. The money is funny anyways. And let's be real, it's never going to be paid back. The banks will be bailed out.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Right. Geez, folks. Quit looking for the easy way out. If you borrow money, pay it back.

    Yeah, it sucks. And yeah, the system sucks. I'm not sure that I'd call it "predatory", but you shouldn't allow yourself to be the prey. Yes, they ran up the price of college education. Yeah, they try to make you believe you need it. But damn. If they gave you the money, pay it back.
    A contract is JUST a contract. It isn't a suicide pact or a blood oath. People breech contracts ALL THE TIME. In fact breeching contracts is so common, nearly all real contracts contain provisions for what happens when the contract is breeched. Arguably, student loan contracts aren't even real contracts. They are a government benefit program pretending to be a contract much like Social Security is pretending to be a pension plan. Student loan contracts as they currently exist would not exist in a free market. A student loan contract, if it existed at all, in a free market would have security. And no lender with real money in the game would lend to the vast majority of students who now get credit merely for asking.

    So, given that a student loan is not so much a contract as it is a government benefit pretending to be a contract, and given that the money on loan was pulled out of thin air and didn't come out of somebody's savings, I have no problem with students saying "suck it" to the government.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So instead of a government-backed loan program, a government-backed entitlement instead? Let's not be coy. If you're talking about giving people money that they don't have to pay back, it's just a handout. Screw 'em, I say. You got in bed with the State, live with the herpes.
    I didn't say any such thing. Please re-read. The gov'ment should be out of the loan industry. (I don't consider bankruptcy a "government program", as it's always been around and will be around long after the regime ceases to be)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    A contract is JUST a contract. It isn't a suicide pact or a blood oath. People breech contracts ALL THE TIME. In fact breeching contracts is so common, nearly all real contracts contain provisions for what happens when the contract is breeched. Arguably, student loan contracts aren't even real contracts. They are a government benefit program pretending to be a contract much like Social Security is pretending to be a pension plan. Student loan contracts as they currently exist would not exist in a free market. A student loan contract, if it existed at all, in a free market would have security. And no lender with real money in the game would lend to the vast majority of students who now get credit merely for asking.

    So, given that a student loan is not so much a contract as it is a government benefit pretending to be a contract, and given that the money on loan was pulled out of thin air and didn't come out of somebody's savings, I have no problem with students saying "suck it" to the government.
    Very thoughtful and eloquent, good sir! +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

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