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That's what I thought, a $#@!ing monkey from the concrete jungle..
It's no wonder you feel compelled to attribute positions not in evidence to those who would question your authenticity..
I see an urban hipster.........
Gun "ranges" are for cops and city dwellers......
The subject was you attributing positions not in evidence to those who would question your authenticity.
Which you have again failed to address....
Too much pollution in your air?
How well do your skin tight pink pants that aren't "hipster" go over at the range? Any better when you get adventurous and take a foray into "The Country"?
Old Helmuth [This is a literal quote from myself, some years ago, with a few redactions]:
This is a good question [poster] brings up. Does every country on earth have some sort of immigration policy -- that is, laws restricting immigration? Or are there, in fact, countries you can "just drive into"?A different poster:
But since you seem to be well versed in this subject, why is it that EVERY country I can think of, has some sort of immigration policy? You can't just drive into China, Russia, The Sudan, Ethiopia, Sweden, Afghanistan, can you? Don't all counties have laws regarding immigration? Or am I misinformed on this?
There are many blocks of countries allowing free or virtually free immigration between themselves. Notably, in mainland Europe one can drive to and fro with no notice of borders whatsoever other than perhaps a sign welcoming you, much like passing between states in the USA, and in South America the Mercosur Agreement allows free transit and trade (and relatively free immigration) throughout most of the continent. Argentina in particular allows free immigration. The government of Argentina welcomes the whole world to come there if they want, no hassles, no quotas, no restrictions. My Dad is in Brazil as we speak, and will be living there for much of the next couple years, doing some work down there. My Mom will be going too, and probably my brother. I could go too with virtually no difficulty. All the (fairly minimal) hassle would be on the US side, getting permission to leave (passport), not on the Brazil side.
As pointed out by another poster, the United Arab Emirates, including Abu Dhabi and Dubai, allow and encourage free and open immigration. Dubai's been built by millions of Bangladeshi laborers, to the benefit of all. Qatar seems to have fairly free immigration as well.
So, we are full of present-day examples of countries with unrestricted immigration doing well. These are not anarchies, they are just normal nation-states that happen to allow unrestricted immigration, either from a certain set of other nation-states, or from the whole world.
As far as examples from the broader swath of total human experience, bringing in the past, that is, rather than our tiny snapshot of time that is the present, the examples of countries with unrestricted immigration would be: basically every decent country in western civilization, when not at war. So, that's rather a lot of precedent for success.
Significantly for us Americans, the USA has had unrestricted (legally) immigration for the majority of its existence.
There are theoretical and practical points to be made on both sides of the immigration-restriction question, but often those on the free-immigration side focus on the theory while the restrictions-on-immigration side focuses on the practical. That is why I'm trying to, myself, focus on the practical side this time. There is a good practical argument to be made for unrestricted immigration. It has a good track record, centuries of success to back it up.
Restrictive immigration policy is an innovation, a new thing, which came about only recently along with the rise of the total states in the 20th century. I would claim that this radical idea, along with so many other of the totalitarian innovations, has not proved very successful.
Last edited by H_H; 03-19-2018 at 04:09 PM.
OK, I appreciate the attention to the practical side of things. Reality is too often neglected in favor or elegant theorums (theori?). Let's take these examples you have presented:
Europe: How is that working out for them lately? Has this policy been causing some discomfort and upheaval lately?
South America: Well, I don't know that Mercosur is causing many problems for them, at least not that I've heard of. Not like Europe. So good for them.
Argentina: They were basically open-borders, yes, but have they continued this policy? I'm not sure. Plus, they have been having major economic and corruption problems and so not many people want to come there. I don't think their net immigration numbers are positive (flowing in) for the past two decades.
United Arab Emirates and Qatar: They allow you to visit, but not to become a citizen. So, a lot different than the USA's situation. This permitting of people to come in and live but not own property or have any rights creates a two-tiered society, which is probably highly undesirable from a long (or even medium) term point of view. It only works if you're planning on sending the second-class underclass home packing after you're done using them. So it's a short-term exploitation play.
Historically, every decent country in western civilization, when not at war: Hmm, probably true to an extent, but only an extent. The loci of power were much more at the feudal lord level for most of Western Civ's history. So sure, nation-states weren't restricting immigration, because they didn't exist yet. The monarchies weren't restricting immigration, because the monarchs were not in charge of a whole lot (by a modern's scale). But did the feudal lords exert any say regarding who could and who could not come and farm on their green, rolling estate? Just a little? You bet your mud-digging stick they did! Total and absolute dictatorial immigration control! That was the rule, throughout Western Civilization.
The US of A: Noice! You save your knock-out punch for last! Indeed you could saw there were few restrictions, in some senses, in the 1800s USA. However, in other senses, there were quite a lot of restrictions.
The main thing I'd like to ask is this:
OK, maybe some countries allow lots of immigration into them, or even have no legal restriction on it whatsoever. But, here is the important thing: does that policy help them? Or does it hurt them?
That would be the important thing to figure out, logically speaking, yes? You can say "The UAE is a horrible, inhospitable desert" and "The 1800s USA had a lot of dysentery" but that does not prove that inhospitable deserts are the ideal place to build good societies (if, indeed the UAE is a good society. Doubtful.) nor that Dysentery Is What Built This Country and What America is All About!
The less free a society is the less it has to fear from unrestricted immigration, America is freer than the rest of the world so if they all flood in here we will be dragged down to their level, in addition the freer a society is the more prosperous it will become and that will attract more people, potentially more than can be assimilated.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
How many people are logged in at Stormfront at any one time, I wonder.
Is it not very many?
I would assume that it's at least a good order of magnitude more than here.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 03-23-2018 at 11:15 PM.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
Hey, I, Old Helmuth, was just going along with another poster's assertion, and this was many years ago. What's the reality then? Could you tell us? Are you saying it's really hard to get in? Visas hard to come by? That is not my experience. I myself have been to the dry and oily peninsula. But that's just a sample of one. So enlighten us.
And fact is that it is hundreds of thousands/millions of immigrants from south Asia who did(/are doing assuming it's still under construction) the grunt construction work for Dubai etc. Are you not considering them "immigrants" for some esoteric reason of your own? If so, please share.
Anyway, the point was, these are countries with huge numbers of fairly low-skill immigrants flooding in -- in fact brought in intentionally, by policy -- and yet their economies are doing pretty good. They are nice countries to live. They are getting better and better, in fact, in tandem with more and more immigration. So what's the problem? How are you going to say there's a problem with mass immigration?
The UAE has neither free nor open immigration. The reason that you did not have any problem getting a tourist visa is because policies vary based upon the nationality of the person seeking the visa and because tourism is not immigration.
Uhh, if the emirates have closed immigration as you say, wouldn’t that make it impossible for a million Bangladeshis to be there? I don’t get it. What are you saying? The only thing that comes to mind is that, as I postulated, you may have some esoteric definition of immigration such that these Bangladeshis are excluded.
Most people’s definition of “closed,” though, does not mean “letting tons of foreigners in.” That sounds more like a wide-open door than a closed one.
But again, I don’t know much about the situation and am happy to be enlightened by you and then enhance my opinion accordingly.
(edit: Just fixed the color, that's all)
Last edited by H_H; 02-17-2020 at 07:57 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Wow. All that. And then it turns out to be just an autistic grammar/usage post. Sigh. It even so happens I actually used the word “fairly.” Guess that didn’t help ya. I know it’s hard to understand spectrums when you’re on the spectrum, but boy. Wow. This was ridiculous.
So thank you, TheCount, for pointing out the shocking revelation that the UAE is not ancapistan and has some sort of regulations and laws regarding immigration. Fact Check!!1!, lol. Nice work, dude. Fact check accomplished.
Do you see, guys? Can you blame me? Seriously.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Having come across this, I was suddenly shocked and awed to see American Spartan: true Americun.
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