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Thread: Wikileaks is a Front for Russian Intelligence

  1. #1

    Wikileaks is a Front for Russian Intelligence

    http://20committee.com/2015/08/31/wi...-intelligence/
    The part played by Wikileaks in the Edward Snowden saga is an important one. The pivotal role of Julian Assange and other leading members of Wikileaks in getting Snowden from Hawaii to Moscow, from NSA employment to FSB protection, in the late spring of 2013 is a matter of record.

    For years there have been questions about just what Wikileaks actually is. I know because I’ve been among those asking. Over two years ago, little more than two weeks after Snowden landed in Moscow, I explained my concerns about Wikileaks based on my background in counterintelligence. Specifically, the role of the Russian anti-Semite weirdo Israel Shamir, a close friend of Assange, in the Wikileaks circle merited attention, and to anyone trained in the right clues, the Assange group gave the impression of having a relationship with Russian intelligence. As I summed up my position in July 2013, based on what we knew so far:

    It’s especially important given the fact that Wikileaks is playing a leading role in the Snowden case, to the dismay of some of Ed’s admirers and even members of his family. Not to mention that Snowden, as of this writing, is still in Moscow. One need not be a counterintelligence guru to have serious questions about Shamir and Wikileaks here. It may be a much bigger part of the story than it appears to the naked eye.

    Evidence that Wikileaks is not what it seems to be has mounted over the years. Assange’s RT show didn’t help matters, neither did the fact that, despite having claimed to possess secret Russian intelligence files, Wikileaks has never exposed anything sensitive, as they have done with the purloined files of many other countries. To say nothing of Assange & Co. taking unmistakably pro-Russian positions on a host of controversial issues. Questions logically followed.

    Now answers are appearing. It’s long been known that Wikileaks, by their own admission, counseled Ed Snowden in June 2013 to leave Hong Kong and head to Moscow. Contrary to the countless lies propagated by Snowden Operation activists, Snowden’s arrival in Russia was his choice; it had nothing to do with canceled passports in Washington, DC.

    An important gap has been filled this week by Julian Assange, who admitted that Snowden going to Moscow was his idea. Ed wanted to head to Latin America, Julian asserted, especially Ecuador, whose London embassy Assange has been hiding out in for years on the lam from rape changes in Sweden. As Assange explained, “He preferred Latin America, but my advice was that he should take asylum in Russia despite the negative PR consequences, because my assessment is that he had a significant risk he could be kidnapped from Latin America on CIA orders. Kidnapped or possibly killed.”

    Only in Russia would Ed be safe, Julian counseled, because there he would be protected by Vladimir Putin and his secret services, notably the FSB. One might think that seeking the shelter of the FSB — one of the world’s nastiest secret police forces that spies on millions without warrant and murders opponents freely — might be an odd choice for a “privacy organization.” But Wikileaks is no ordinary NGO.

    Why Assange knew Russia would take in Snowden — it could be a big political hassle for Moscow — is a key question that any counterintelligence officer would want answered. Was Julian speaking on behalf of the FSB or did he just “know” Ed could obtain the sanctuary plus protection he sought?

    Just as telling is the recent report on Assange’s activities in Ecuador’s London embassy, where it turns out Ecuadorian intelligence has been keeping tabs on him. Which is no surprise given the PR mess Assange has created for Ecuador with his on-going antics.

    Especially interesting is the revelation that, while holed up in London, Assange “requested that he be able to chose his own Security Service inside the embassy, suggesting the use of Russian operatives.” It is, to say the least, surpassingly strange that a Western “privacy advocate” wants Russian secret police protection while hiding out in a Western country. The original Spanish is clear: Assange “habría sido la elección de su propio Servicio de Seguridad en el interior de la embajada, llegando a proponer la participación de operadores de nacionalidad rusa.”

    Why Assange wants FSB bodyguards is a question every journalist who encounters Julian henceforth should ask. Until he explains that, Wikileaks should be treated as the front and cut-out for Russian intelligence that it has become, while those who get in bed with Wikileaks — many Western “privacy advocates” are in that group — should be asked their feelings about their own at least indirect ties with Putin’s spy services.

    P.S. For those familiar with espionage history, there is a clear precedent for such an arrangement. In 1978 the magazine Covert Action Information Bulletin appeared to expose the secrets of US and Western intelligence. Its editor was Phil Agee, a former CIA officer who had gotten into bed with Cuban and Soviet intelligence; think of Agee as the Snowden of the pre-Internet era. CAIB was in fact founded on the direction of the KGB and for years served as a conduit for Kremlin lies and disinformation that seriously harmed Western intelligence. While CAIB presented itself as a radical truth-telling group, in actuality it was a KGB front, though few CAIB staffers beyond Agee knew who was really calling the shots. One suspects much the same is happening with Wikileaks.
    This is a pretty damning article...and it doesn't help the cause of whistle blowers.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    http://20committee.com/2015/08/31/wi...-intelligence/


    This is a pretty damning article...and it doesn't help the cause of whistle blowers.
    Ok,, ?? .

    if you say so,

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    This is a pretty damning article...and it doesn't help the cause of whistle blowers.
    what exactly is damning about it?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    what exactly is damning about it?
    There is a lot of influence that Russia is directly working with them. That compromises their integrity.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    There is a lot of influence that Russia is directly working with them. That compromises their integrity.
    Are you saying that because they work with Russia that makes the leaks false? The U.S. is more than welcome to set up a competing organization and leak info about things the Russian government is doing.

  7. #6
    Especially interesting is the revelation that, while holed up in London, Assange “requested that he be able to chose his own Security Service inside the embassy, suggesting the use of Russian operatives.” It is, to say the least, surpassingly strange that a Western “privacy advocate” wants Russian secret police protection while hiding out in a Western country.
    Really not all that interesting when one considers the history of Western allies disappearing people onto secret flights, to secret prisons, to conduct secret torture campaigns.

    If I thought another imperial power would prevent this, or at least, trusted them to do more to protect me than the people actively looking to torture, imprison, or murder me, I'd probably go ahead and accept their security as well.

    The whole article is ridiculous.

    It is akin to implying Snowden is a Russian spy because he is in Russia. If one considers that most of the Western world would extradite Snowden for a sham of a trial, and that Russia, at least at the moment, won't, things start to make a little more sense.

    Furthermore, even if it is a Russian front, so what? Taking the article at face value I would say, "Good for the Russians in bringing this information to the light." Perhaps I'm a little more realistic as I did not live through the red scare.

    I don't care if the devil himself released the information. It should be in the public.

    Frankly it says something that certain whistleblowers who expose government crimes are better protected in Russia than in America. I can understand why that might irk the exceptionalists but for me I really just find it amazing.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    There is a lot of influence that Russia is directly working with them. That compromises their integrity.

    That compromises their integrity
    Are you aware that America is being distrusted an disliked on a higher level around the global? even if they are working with the Russians so what of it? i am quite your are one of those guys that want Edward Snowden arrested to.

    If America has being trustworthy why hasn't its own government or former Intel people set a organization and leak info about things the American government is doing then?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Are you aware that America is being distrusted an disliked on a higher level around the global? even if they are working with the Russians so what of it? i am quite your are one of those guys that want Edward Snowden arrested to.

    If America has being trustworthy why hasn't its own government or former Intel people set a organization and leak info about things the American government is doing then?
    It is a huge problem if national security information can get sent to the Russians.
    I don't want Snowden arrested...actually the way I read it, it seems as if he has been manipulated by Assange.



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  11. #9
    I don't find the article persuasive at all. You don't have to be a Russian spy to conclude that Russia is much better prepared, and motivated, to protect Snowden from the USA than a third-world Latin American country.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  12. #10
    Specifically, the role of the Russian anti-Semite weirdo Israel Shamir
    Was this article written by Bill Kristol or Jeffrey Toobin? Any time people use the word "anti-semite" to describe anyone, I automatically roll my eyes. The OP still thinks we are living in the 80's where the big bad Russian government is actually scarier then our current government.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    http://20committee.com/2015/08/31/wi...-intelligence/


    This is a pretty damning article...and it doesn't help the cause of whistle blowers.
    Damning? My first thought when reading it was that Israeli propaganda has really fallen on hard times.

  14. #12
    Bottom line is Russia is playing the moral high card over the U.S. post 911.

    Thanks Neo-cons

  15. #13
    Former NSA Officer: Wikileaks Is A Front For Russian Intelligence And Snowden's (Probably) A Spy
    from the every-time-I-say-it-out-loud,-it-becomes-more-true dept
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ably-spy.shtml
    To operate effectively, agents must have a clearly-defined enemy. But the real world is often uncooperative and fails to provide irredeemable villains. Incidents like the recent high profile leaks of Manning and Snowden further cloud the issue. Sure, there's the alleged "exceptionally grave damage" to national security, but much of what's exposed hasn't made the citizens being "defended" by the exposed entities any happier, or feel any less safe. So, when the enemies fail to hold the masses in thrall, what's a former NSA agent to do? The usual narrative isn't working and there's no clear consensus that Snowden, Manning or their mutual associate, Julian Assange are villains. Faced with the untidiness of the current reality, former NSA officer John Schindler has built his own "reality," and it's as insane as it is ugly.
    [...]
    Schindler seems to desperately want Snowden to be a tool of the Russian intelligence agencies and feels he has collected enough dots to say that Snowden is definitely in Russia and another entity he doesn't care for (Wikileaks) helped him out. Therefore, Wikileaks is a "fake activist group" created by the Russian government. But he willingly leaps across several logical gaps without presenting any supporting evidence other than "I've said this several times before." In other words, "Source: Me."
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  16. #14
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    this thread just makes me remember the opening scene from Austin Powers... "...Russian Intelligence... are you mad?"

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    There is a lot of influence that Russia is directly working with them. That compromises their integrity.
    So you post an article written by an NSA employee (or former) and then you claim that it is pretty "damning." Right.... Do you realize that the NSA HATES Snowden? Are you going to post an article by Bill Kristol on the virtues of war next?

  18. #16
    Looks like OP is just spreading NSA propaganda....

    How Surveillance-State Insiders Try to Discredit NSA Critics

    Who has done more than anyone else to increase public understanding of what the National Security Agency does? A top-10 list would have to include James Bamford, its first and most prolific journalistic chronicler, and Glenn Greenwald, a primary recipient of classified documents leaked months ago by whistleblower Edward Snowden. Over the weekend, I engaged in a back-and-forth with a former NSA employee who harshly criticized both (and me, too) with words that illuminate how some insiders view the press and the national-security state.

    His name is John R. Schindler. In his own words, he is a "professor of national security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College, where he’s been since 2005, and where he teaches courses on security, strategy, intelligence, terrorism, and occasionally military history." He previously spent "nearly a decade with the National Security Agency as an intelligence analyst and counterintelligence officer," and he is "a senior fellow of the International History Institute at Boston University and is chairman of the Partnership for Peace Consortium's Combating Terrorism Working Group, a unique body which brings together scholars and practitioners from more than two dozen countries across Eurasia to tackle problems of terrorism, extremism, and political violence." In addition, his blog (hxxp://20committee.com/)has some smart commentary on it.
    read the rest here:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...ritics/281941/



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    It is a huge problem if national security information can get sent to the Russians.
    I don't want Snowden arrested...actually the way I read it, it seems as if he has been manipulated by Assange.
    The US government shouldn't even HAVE secrets unless we are in, or about to be in, a legitimate war.

    And I find it absurd to suggest that Ed Snowden, who managed to hack the NSA from the inside, escape the country, negotiate a safe haven in the incredibly risky and complex world of international intrigue, and take time to speak eloquently about the risks we face and why he did what he did, is somehow just a stupid pawn to Wikileaks.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  21. #18
    Again, bumping a thread with an interesting OP
    does not mean that I agree with it to a hundred
    percentile. If we are still inside the Cold War, this
    thread hints at Robert Mueller's focus. Is Assange
    a traitor? Is Trump a Traitor? Or is this hyperbole?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    Again, bumping a thread with an interesting OP
    does not mean that I agree with it to a hundred
    percentile. If we are still inside the Cold War, this
    thread hints at Robert Mueller's focus. Is Assange
    a traitor? Is Trump a Traitor? Or is this hyperbole?
    Is Aratus insane?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    Again, bumping a thread with an interesting OP
    does not mean that I agree with it to a hundred
    percentile. If we are still inside the Cold War, this
    thread hints at Robert Mueller's focus. Is Assange
    a traitor? Is Trump a Traitor? Or is this hyperbole?
    Mueller is a traitor.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Is Aratus insane?
    Dude. I do feel you R the most obnoxious troll here...
    That was a quick post. You are not innocent at all!!!
    You have a paycheck contingent on your quantity
    And quality, and yes, you do drive people away
    Who free think. Your party line is most odd.
    Last edited by Aratus; 07-21-2018 at 01:22 AM. Reason: Dude... Okay... maybe I'm being too brusque...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    Dude... You ARE the most obnoxious troll here...
    That was a quick edit. You are not innocent at all.
    You do have a paycheck contingent on your quantity
    And quality, and yes, you do drive people away
    Who free think. Your party line is most odd.
    The most obnoxious troll would be you. Ask yourself how many people look at your pablum and sigh, another post by Aratus, wtf is he(she???) trying to say now.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    (major edit) Ask yourself how many people look at your {posting} and sigh, another post by Aratus, wtf is he(she???) trying to say now.
    Okay. Reframed. Yep.
    Dude. Dude Dude...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    Okay. Reframed. Yep.
    Dude. Dude Dude...
    How you tried seeking professional help?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Mueller is a traitor.
    If this is binary. Zero Sum Game Theory...

    Mueller is a traitor if Trump isn't one, they

    both went into a grudge match mode....

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    How you tried seeking professional help?
    Clearly you haven't.
    You are too quick with
    the ad hoc ipso facto
    leaps in something
    other than logic...

  31. #27
    What if Mueller and Trump are not at all treasonable but Trump has been
    much more corrupt and dishonest than Mueller. We have an equal impasse.

  32. #28
    If both Donald Trump and Robert Mueller have committed acts of treason
    then we all live in very interesting times, indeed! This is also possible!!!

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    What if Mueller and Trump are not at all treasonable but Trump has been
    much more corrupt and dishonest than Mueller. We have an equal impasse.
    Hitlery herself would find it hard to be more corrupt and dishonest than Mueller, she had greater opportunities but he made excellent use of his.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Hitlery herself would find it hard to be more corrupt and dishonest than Mueller, she had greater opportunities but he made excellent use of his.
    Let's go for the TRAITOR TRIFECTA...

    Hillary C committed treason.
    Robert M committed treason.
    Donald T committed treason.

    BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME!



    This is in its own way like a Democrat's
    impeachment "trifecta" where Trump, Pence
    and Ryan are booted out of our highest office
    within weeks of each other, as the Dems
    get who they want into the Oval Office.

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