TX-Cop executed while pumping gas in Houston.

[Christian Liberty]

Not, "in some ways", is.

Not because of what I say but because they say it.

They say that they are warriors and are fighting a war every day, against us.

So if it is war, then expect casualties, expect the enemy to not play by your rules and expect them to engage in asymmetrical warfare.

Have they ever said all the citizenry are at war with them? I thought usually they claim its criminals.

Of course, the real truth is that according to the govt we're all criminals, but I realize a lot of cops don't get this.

You're seeing forward motion and condemning it for not being as neat-n-tidy as you'd like.

This really isn't forward motion, honestly.

You will NEVER get a mainstream organized religion to rally against big government at this stage simply because the congregations income is severely influenced by governments largess.

Take away the free $#@!, including government "jobs" and they'll fall in lock, stock and barrel but your idea will remain fruitless until then.

What I hear is the tit-suckers screaming to protect the status quo, it has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with their bellies...

Yeah, I understand. Its extremely frustrating. I don't know what to do about it. I'm hoping that secular humanism will get heavy handed enough to get Christians to start hating the State and then collapse.

But, while I honestly don't know how to get Christians to start caring (and I feel like I'm punching a wall as I try) i do know that judgment starts with the House of God.

Are you saying the death of this police officer is not justified?

Yes, I am. I'm not saying the cop was a just man, but vigilantism is unjust, and there are enough mitigating factors to police work that make it, while wrong, not warranting of execution.

[Anti Federalist]

Have they ever said all the citizenry are at war with them? I thought usually they claim its criminals.

Of course, the real truth is that according to the govt we're all criminals, but I realize a lot of cops don't get this.

No, you have it bass-ackwards.

They often claim that there is a "war on cops", but that is not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how they view themselves as warriors at war with us.



Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

Harvard Law Review Forum

Commentary by Seth Stoughton

Apr 10, 2015

http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/...rrior-problem/

Within law enforcement, few things are more venerated than the concept of the Warrior. Officers are trained to cultivate a “warrior mindset,” the virtues of which are extolled in books, articles, interviews, and seminars intended for a law enforcement audience. An article in Police Magazine opens with a sentence that demonstrates with notable nonchalance just how ubiquitous the concept is:

“[Officers] probably hear about needing to have a warrior mindset almost daily.”

Modern policing has so thoroughly assimilated the warrior mythos that, at some law enforcement agencies, it has become a point of professional pride to refer to the “police warrior.” This is more than a relatively minor change in terminology. Though adopted with the best of intentions, (pure naive horse$#@! - AF) the warrior concept has created substantial obstacles to improving police/community relations. In short, law enforcement has developed a “warrior” problem.

[TheTexan]

There's no reason for violence. There's no reason to go killing cops. Sheriffs are elected in America. You have the power to change your local police department. I don't hear anyone here claiming we need to murder politicians because we aren't getting our way electorally. If you don't like the criminal justice system, elect better sheriffs. Elect better politicians to write better laws. We still have recourse through the ballot box.

Don't go around killing home town cops that are just doing their best to create a better community. These aren't SS, they are just people working a day job.

Yes, we just need to vote harder and we can make Rand president. Let's stick to the ballot box approach, its working great so far.

[Christian Liberty]

Ugh... I hate how I'm caught in the middle of the "not all cops are bad" people and the "we're at war and so killing is fine" mentality. I dislike both.

[adissa]

Ugh... I hate how I'm caught in the middle of the "not all cops are bad" people and the "we're at war and so killing is fine" mentality. I dislike both.

I asked you a question at the bottom of page 3.

[kcchiefs6465]

Ugh... I hate how I'm caught in the middle of the "not all cops are bad" people and the "we're at war and so killing is fine" mentality. I dislike both.

This coming from the one who wishes to stone adulterers... that's rich.

Live by the sword and all that, right?

[adissa]

This coming from the one who wishes to stone adulterers... that's rich.

Live by the sword and all that, right?

That's where I was going with my question. Christian Liberty is wildly inconsistent in his/her opinions.

[Dianne]

Ugh... I hate how I'm caught in the middle of the "not all cops are bad" people and the "we're at war and so killing is fine" mentality. I dislike both.

I agree. There is no justification whatsoever, to gun down a living creature; unless that creature has put you or your family in imminent danger. PERIOD !!!!! No ands, no buts, no what ifs, no woulda, shoulda, coulda's.

[Anti Federalist]

Ugh... I hate how I'm caught in the middle of the "not all cops are bad" people and the "we're at war and so killing is fine" mentality. I dislike both.

I did not SAY it was "fine".

It's horrible.

And part of the blame can be laid right at the feet of the warrior cop and his mindset.

My only question is, what is the next move?

Stand down and try to restore some sanity and "peace" back in being a "peace officer"?

Or up the ante' and become even more hostile, aggressive and belligerent?

[Anti Federalist]

I agree. There is no justification whatsoever, to gun down a living creature; unless that creature has put you or your family in imminent danger. PERIOD !!!!! No ands, no buts, no what ifs, no woulda, shoulda, coulda's.

If "they" don't stand down and de-escalate, it's going to come to that.

Where the very presence of a uniform and badge in your immediate vicinity will de-facto be a sign of clear and present danger to your life and limb.

[tod evans]

I agree. There is no justification whatsoever, to gun down a living creature; unless that creature has put you or your family in imminent danger. PERIOD !!!!! No ands, no buts, no what ifs, no woulda, shoulda, coulda's.

A declaration of war places every one of us who are not members of the "Just-Us" department in imminent danger.

There is no other way to view the war they've declared.

[adissa]

I agree. There is no justification whatsoever, to gun down a living creature; unless that creature has put you or your family in imminent danger. PERIOD !!!!! No ands, no buts, no what ifs, no woulda, shoulda, coulda's.

Christian Liberty may disagree with you. S/he's all for the killing of adulterers and homosexuals. Among other people.

[kcchiefs6465]

I did not SAY it was "fine".

It's horrible.

And part of the blame can be laid right at the feet of the warrior cop and his mindset.

My only question is, what is the next move?

Stand down and try to restore some sanity and "peace" back in being a "peace officer"?

Or up the ante' and become even more hostile, aggressive and belligerent?

They never were peace officers.

So in actuality your rhetorical question is pondering if wholly counterproductive, immoral, and criminal organizations will morph into a productive force for society. Might as well ask if the Crips are going to pass out turkeys this year. And to add another caveat, even if they did, so the $#@! what? Would that fundamentally change their M.O.?

Harris County? Where was this gentleman when the police there were beating, molesting, murdering, and/or imprisoning peaceful people? Oh, he was participating in it? Meh.

[Christian Liberty]

Christian Liberty may disagree with you. S/he's all for the killing of adulterers and homosexuals. Among other people.

Execution by the State, with the testimony of at least two witnesses or equivalent levels of evidence, after a trial, and only for action, not identity. Not vigilantism.

[adissa]

Execution by the State, with the testimony of at least two witnesses or equivalent levels of evidence, after a trial, and only for action, not identity. Not vigilantism.

WTF are you talking about??

[Anti Federalist]

A declaration of war places every one of us who are not members of the "Just-Us" department in imminent danger.

There is no other way to view the war they've declared.

What you're liable to receive when you call cops for "help"

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...d-kill-his-dog

[kcchiefs6465]

WTF are you talking about??

He's talking about that if two people say that you are an adulterer, you ought to be buried and pelted with stones until dead.

He's saying that that is fundamentally different from simply stoning people on whim or stoning people to exact some form of justice.

For more information on the matter or mindset, I would recommend reading works from the Taliban (or a similarly fanatical religious organization).

[Christian Liberty]

He's talking about that if two people say that you are an adulterer, you ought to be buried and pelted with stones until dead.

He's saying that that is fundamentally different from simply stoning people on whim or stoning people to exact some form of justice.

For more information on the matter or mindset, I would recommend reading works from the Taliban (or a similarly fanatical religious organization).

The Taliban couldn't preach in a Christian society

[kcchiefs6465]

The Taliban couldn't preach in a Christian society

And the punishment if they did?

I am not as versed on OT law as I should be, apparently.

ETA: I did make a thread specifically for you as I am kind of curious about your views on the subject and didn't want to derail the thread further.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...45#post5976245

[adissa]

The Taliban couldn't preach in a Christian society

A rose by any other name.....

[Dianne]

Geeeeeeeeez, I must be missing something. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere that says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" ? Why such over generalizations? How can the terrible acts of a handful of bad police officers lead this forum to believe they should all be under attack. Look at Obama, for example... a black murderer who is elite and can get away with it. Does that mean all black people are bad? Of course not.

Stop with the generalizations.

[heavenlyboy34]

Execution by the State, with the testimony of at least two witnesses or equivalent levels of evidence, after a trial, and only for action, not identity. Not vigilantism.

How quickly many self-proclaimed Christians forget what Jesus actually said!

…6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court 10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?"11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

[heavenlyboy34]

The Taliban couldn't preach in a Christian society

They could in denominational and non-denom Christian societies. The standards aren't usually so strict as they are in Catholic and Orthodox societies. In the US at least, any ol' schmuck can get ordained for a fee and a little training.

[Anti Federalist]

Why such over generalizations? How can the terrible acts of a handful of bad police officers lead this forum to believe they should all be under attack.

Because it is not a handful.

For instance, there are over 200 SWAT raids across the country every day.

[kcchiefs6465]

Geeeeeeeeez, I must be missing something. Isn't there something in the Bible somewhere that says "Thou Shalt Not Kill" ? Why such over generalizations? How can the terrible acts of a handful of bad police officers lead this forum to believe they should all be under attack. Look at Obama, for example... a black murderer who is elite and can get away with it. Does that mean all black people are bad? Of course not.

Stop with the generalizations.

Your analogy is faulty. If someone said all black people accept stolen monies to perform and enforce immoral and often criminal acts and they did, then there would be no controversy in such a statement, right? It would be like calling the sky blue (one could only argue the true hue of the blue and not that the sky was not blue).

They feel unappreciated? Underpaid? In danger? Resign.

Why don't they? And then of course there's the elephant in the room of why is there not mass outrage BY the police over extrajudicial summary executions, roadside molestation, the incarceration of 'criminals' who've never committed a crime etc. They either actively endorse as much or they passively endorse as much.

You keep kicking a hornet's nest, don't be surprised when you're stung.

As others have said, let them regress their militarized attitudes and "Them vs. Us" attitudes and more people might be inclined to support them. Let them quit enforcing unconstitutional (while possibly being one supposedly contractually obligated to support as much considering their oath) edicts destroying people's lives.

I'll take it a step further. $#@! them. Same as I would say $#@! every last welfare queen gaming the system through theft, fraud, and robbery to finance their more-extravagant-than-the-mean's lifestyles.

[puppetmaster]

Ok most here know that I am a former LEO. I want to tell you a quick storey about what happened last Wednesday night.. I am a casino manager and while I was sitting in my office I heard a commotion outside my door. I looked up and saw two people wrestling back and forth. The young Mexican kid pushed this senior down to the ground and strong armed his wallet. He ran out an exit and I pursued. I chased this kid a block or so and caught up to him in the first floor of a parking garage. I slammed him against the wall and held him until the police arrived. This is the same thing I would have done if I was still in uniform. I know there are many good and many bad cops out there. I think anyone who says all cops are bad really limited on their exposure. From what I have seen from where I have worked it is 50 50. BTW.. this kid could not speak English and most likely was an illegal but the cops could not ask him.....funny thing he was well dressed and clean cut. But he still could not outrun me and I was twice his age......lol. anyway he will plea out and get out to commit another crime soon.

And another funny thing is the guys wallet that was stolen had 168 bucks in it. 10 feet away from where he stole the wallet a guy had just hit a 20 thousand dollar jackpot and took it all in cash.....had it right in his hands when this went down.

[Dianne]

Ok most here know that I am a former LEO. I want to tell you a quick storey about what happened last Wednesday night.. I am a casino manager and while I was sitting in my office I heard a commotion outside my door. I looked up and saw two people wrestling back and forth. The young Mexican kid pushed this senior down to the ground and strong armed his wallet. He ran out an exit and I pursued. I chased this kid a block or so and caught up to him in the first floor of a parking garage. I slammed him against the wall and held him until the police arrived. This is the same thing I would have done if I was still in uniform. I know there are many good and many bad cops out there. I think anyone who says all cops are bad really limited on their exposure. From what I have seen from where I have worked it is 50 50. BTW.. this kid could not speak English and most likely was an illegal but the cops could not ask him.....funny thing he was well dressed and clean cut. But he still could not outrun me and I was twice his age......lol. anyway he will plea out and get out to commit another crime soon.

And another funny thing is the guys wallet that was stolen had 168 bucks in it. 10 feet away from where he stole the wallet a guy had just hit a 20 jackpot and took it all in cash.....had it right in his hands when this went down.

I was a correctional officer, and husband is still a Sergeant in the DOC. I can tell you, probably 10% dirty officers who smuggle in cell phones, pot, cigs. The rest do their job respectfully. I hate to think the 10% dirty officers would get me killed and this forum approve it.

[Dianne]

Ok most here know that I am a former LEO. I want to tell you a quick storey about what happened last Wednesday night.. I am a casino manager and while I was sitting in my office I heard a commotion outside my door. I looked up and saw two people wrestling back and forth. The young Mexican kid pushed this senior down to the ground and strong armed his wallet. He ran out an exit and I pursued. I chased this kid a block or so and caught up to him in the first floor of a parking garage. I slammed him against the wall and held him until the police arrived. This is the same thing I would have done if I was still in uniform. I know there are many good and many bad cops out there. I think anyone who says all cops are bad really limited on their exposure. From what I have seen from where I have worked it is 50 50. BTW.. this kid could not speak English and most likely was an illegal but the cops could not ask him.....funny thing he was well dressed and clean cut. But he still could not outrun me and I was twice his age......lol. anyway he will plea out and get out to commit another crime soon.

And another funny thing is the guys wallet that was stolen had 168 bucks in it. 10 feet away from where he stole the wallet a guy had just hit a 20 jackpot and took it all in cash.....had it right in his hands when this went down.

And what is a LEO?

[kcchiefs6465]

Ok most here know that I am a former LEO. I want to tell you a quick storey about what happened last Wednesday night.. I am a casino manager and while I was sitting in my office I heard a commotion outside my door. I looked up and saw two people wrestling back and forth. The young Mexican kid pushed this senior down to the ground and strong armed his wallet. He ran out an exit and I pursued. I chased this kid a block or so and caught up to him in the first floor of a parking garage. I slammed him against the wall and held him until the police arrived. This is the same thing I would have done if I was still in uniform. I know there are many good and many bad cops out there. I think anyone who says all cops are bad really limited on their exposure. From what I have seen from where I have worked it is 50 50. BTW.. this kid could not speak English and most likely was an illegal but the cops could not ask him.....funny thing he was well dressed and clean cut. But he still could not outrun me and I was twice his age......lol. anyway he will plea out and get out to commit another crime soon.

And another funny thing is the guys wallet that was stolen had 168 bucks in it. 10 feet away from where he stole the wallet a guy had just hit a 20 jackpot and took it all in cash.....had it right in his hands when this went down.

If in your experience as a police officer, the ratio of good vs. bad police officers was 50/50, why did you not speak out (also is that why you left)?

My knees ache daily, future back problems in lieu, bruised and cut up, usually. My feet bleed sometimes. No complaints, you know? I love a hard day's work finished with a couple stiff drinks. The old American Way, I suppose. With what I make I ought be content. It's only when I consider what they take does reality hit me.

You know what I see on my way to an 11 hour shift? Speed traps. They are literally stealing from the productive. And for what? To hire more of them? To pay existing salaries? To replace AC compressors so that they can sit in comfort targeting and scheming against the productive caste of society? THAT is why there are no good cops. THAT is why I cannot possibly respect them. Out of uniform I've shot the $#@! with a few (until their profession is brought up and then I must worry if I have complied with every one of the tens of thousands of laws and regulations... naturally the conversation falls apart after their profession is brought up)

[Anti Federalist]

I was a correctional officer, and husband is still a Sergeant in the DOC. I can tell you, probably 10% dirty officers who smuggle in cell phones, pot, cigs. The rest do their job respectfully. I hate to think the 10% dirty officers would get me killed and this forum approve it.

You've seen the posts I have made through the years, showing how many people in prison are actually innocent.

I could not do your, or your husband's job, and still sleep at night, knowing I was party to jailing in rape cages hundreds, perhaps thousands (I do not know how big the facility(s) were/are) of people who were, in fact, innocent.

ETA - And once again, to make perfectly clear, I never said I approved of what happened in Houston.

I analyzed it and gave it a proper name: a casualty of war.

I war I never wanted, that I never supported, that I want no part of.