Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 50

Thread: Reality Check: Is There A Link Between Mass Shootings and Anti-Depressants?

  1. #1

    Reality Check: Is There A Link Between Mass Shootings and Anti-Depressants?




  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Are they killing people because they are nuts and taking medicines because they are nuts? Or are the medicines making them nuts?

    How many million take those medicines and DON'T go out and kill anybody? I go with the "already nuts" theory. There is not evidence that any of the killers were plain, normal, sane people before they were given the medicines. They were already having issues before their prescriptions.

    Piece says one in ten are taking them. Are one in ten homicidal maniacs?

    Guns don't kill people. Prozac doesn't kill people. Crazy people with guns kill people.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-28-2015 at 03:12 PM.

  4. #3
    Me-n-mine won't be taking SSRI's.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Are they killing people because they are nuts and taking medicines because they are nuts? Or are the medicines making them nuts?

    How many million take those medicines and DON'T go out and kill anybody? I go with the "already nuts" theory. There is not evidence that any of the killers were plain, normal, sane people before they were given the medicines. They were already having issues before their prescriptions.

    Piece says one in ten are taking them. Are one in ten homicidal maniacs?

    Guns don't kill people. Prozac doesn't kill people. Crazy people with guns kill people.
    Where is the list of mass shooters who weren't on or hadn't been on pharmaceutical anti-depressants or pain meds?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Sane people don't do such things. If one in ten are on them as the piece suggests, that is over 30 million. How many of them have turned out to be mass murderers? If pills are the cause, we should have at least a million of them.

    Then there is the argument that if somebody kills a lot of people and wasn't medicated that maybe they SHOULD have been under the care of a psychological expert.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-28-2015 at 03:33 PM.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Are they killing people because they are nuts and taking medicines because they are nuts? Or are the medicines making them nuts?

    How many million take those medicines and DON'T go out and kill anybody? I go with the "already nuts" theory. There is not evidence that any of the killers were plain, normal, sane people before they were given the medicines. They were already having issues before their prescriptions.

    Piece says one in ten are taking them. Are one in ten homicidal maniacs?

    Guns don't kill people. Prozac doesn't kill people. Crazy people with guns kill people.
    That would be a hasty generalization fallacy. Because some people who take SSRI's are afflicted with violent ideation (a known and documented side effect of SSRI drugs) does not mean that all people are affected by that side effect. A more logical point would have been to compare the ratio of notoriety killers who are on SSRIs vs those who are not, and compare that ratio to the ratio of those who are mentally ill and medicated vs unmedicated.

    If, for example, 95% of notoriety killers are on or recently off of SSRI drugs, while only 40% of violent sociopaths are on or recently off of SSRI drugs, then the difference between 95% and 40% is a lot more relevant to the question than a non-rational presumption that anyone who would do a notoriety killing would necessarily be on psychological drugs because they are sick.

    Not everyone who is a violent psychopath is medicated, however nearly everyone who does these notoriety killings, is. That is the salient point. If the ratio of medicated vs unmedicated notoriety killers was the same as medicated vs unmedicated violent psychopaths, then you might have a point, although that would indicate the drugs are worthless. If the ratio was much larger amongst the killers, that would logically indicate that SSRIs may contribute to the motivation for killing.

    Finally, violent ideation is a known and documented side effect of SSRI drugs, so it's not like this is a real stretch.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Are they killing people because they are nuts and taking medicines because they are nuts? Or are the medicines making them nuts?
    You make it sound as if it's an exclusionary, one or the other question. It's not.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 08-28-2015 at 04:08 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    They were nearly all white men. Does being a white male mean you are likely to be a mass killer? Did being a white male cause them to do it?

    Correlation is not causation.

    If you took a sane person, gave them SSRIs and they went out and killed somebody, you may have a claim that there might be a link. But none of them were considered "normal" before they went on the meds.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    I have been diagnosed with severe PTSD and I won't touch the stuff. I'm toughing it out on my own. Believe it or not, I tried weed for the first time a couple of months ago and I thought I was going to die. The feeling weed gave me was the same feeling as a panic attack... where I'm not in control of the situation. I will never touch it again.

    But I have a cousin who is Tripolar (very rare), and has been on meds and disability from his job at IBM since age 31, he is now 64. He is convinced he won't live a day without his meds. He has basically had a pharmaceutical lobotomy.

    To my knowledge, almost all of the high profile (alleged) shooters have been on psychotropic medications prescribed by American Medical Association drug pushers.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They were nearly all white men. Does being a white male mean you are likely to be a mass killer? Did being a white male cause them to do it?

    Correlation is not causation.

    If you took a sane person, gave them SSRIs and they went out and killed somebody, you may have a claim that there might be a link. But none of them were considered "normal" before they went on the meds.
    Once again, this boils down to ratio. If the ratio of white serial killers to minority serial killers is statistically significantly different than the ratio of white population to minority population in general, then a conclusion may be drawn about racial demographics and violent psychopathy. However, such an anomaly is refuted by the FBI:

    https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p.../serial-murder

    Myth: Serial killers are all white males.

    Contrary to popular belief, serial killers span all racial groups. There are white, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian serial killers. The racial diversification of serial killers generally mirrors that of the overall U.S. population.

    • Charles Ng, a native of Hong Kong, China, killed numerous victims in Northern California, in concert with Robert Lake.

    • Derrick Todd Lee, an African-American, killed at least six women in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

    • Coral Eugene Watts, an African-American, killed five victims in Michigan, fled the state to avoid detection, and murdered another 12 victims in Texas, before being apprehended.

    • Rafael Resendez-Ramirez, a native of Mexico, murdered nine people in Kentucky, Texas, and Illinois, before turning himself in.

    • Rory Conde, a Colombian native, was responsible for six prostitute homicides in the Miami, Florida area.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They were nearly all white men. Does being a white male mean you are likely to be a mass killer? Did being a white male cause them to do it?
    You seriously gonna pull that left-wing BS while we are looking every day this week at a black shooter on our TVs? One who idealized an Asian shooter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Correlation is not causation.
    Yep. That is not controversial. Or even spin. Shocking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If you took a sane person, gave them SSRIs and they went out and killed somebody, you may have a claim that there might be a link. But none of them were considered "normal" before they went on the meds.
    Probably a majority of violence and murder occurs while under the influence of alcohol. Are you going to tell us that the use of alcohol is pure coincidence?
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 08-28-2015 at 04:39 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Where is the list of mass shooters who weren't on or hadn't been on pharmaceutical anti-depressants or pain meds?
    The Sandy Hook shooter, for starts. And why limit it to mass shootings>

    This is why I don't watch Swann. This theory has been disproved statistically over and over.We already have an Alex Jones.

  15. #13
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18990713 - the rate of homicides committed during a first episode psychotic break before treatment was 1.59 homicides per 1,000 patients. "The annual rate of homicide after treatment for psychosis was 0.11 homicides per 1,000 patients."

    http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/violent-behavior-backgrounder.pdf - 12 studies indicating that alcohol nd drug use is more closely correlated with violence than SSRIs.

  16. #14
    So let's go back to my earlier question. How many mass shooters were "normal" before being given their meds? That would show that meds probably changed who they were and how their minds worked. If the meds were the cause of what they did...

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They were nearly all white men. Does being a white male mean you are likely to be a mass killer? Did being a white male cause them to do it?

    Correlation is not causation.

    If you took a sane person, gave them SSRIs and they went out and killed somebody, you may have a claim that there might be a link. But none of them were considered "normal" before they went on the meds.


    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The Sandy Hook shooter, for starts. And why limit it to mass shootings>

    This is why I don't watch Swann. This theory has been disproved statistically over and over.We already have an Alex Jones.
    And that would be an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you find an anecdote that one of the several mass shooters had stopped taking Celexa and Fanapt long enough to no longer produce metabolites in his system does not mean that there is no connection between SSRI's and violent ideation.

    Instead, a logical and scientific process would be to compare the ratio of medicated vs unmedicated mass shooters to the ration of medicated vs unmedicated violent psychopaths. If the ratio of medicated shooters is statistically significantly different than the ratio of medicated psychopaths, then conclusions may logically be drawn. Nobody is arguing that 100% of all mass shooters are on SSRIs.

    Finally, violent ideation is a well known and well documented side effect of SSRI type drugs.

    For example, acute liver failure is a well known and swell documented side effect of acetaminophen overdose. If a patient goes to the doctor with acute liver failure after an acetaminophen overdose, then that condition is considered linked to the overdose, because such an outcome is a known side effect of the drug. Nobody calls liver failure from acetaminophen overdose a conspiracy theory.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They were nearly all white men. Does being a white male mean you are likely to be a mass killer? Did being a white male cause them to do it?

    Correlation is not causation.

    If you took a sane person, gave them SSRIs and they went out and killed somebody, you may have a claim that there might be a link. But none of them were considered "normal" before they went on the meds.
    Do white people take psychiatric medication on a larger scale than minorities?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Once again, this boils down to ratio. If the ratio of white serial killers to minority serial killers is statistically significantly different than the ratio of white population to minority population in general, then a conclusion may be drawn about racial demographics and violent psychopathy. However, such an anomaly is refuted by the FBI:
    I actually think one of two things. First, almost all false flags are white, privileged young men (the enemy of the state, especially if you're trying to create racial unrest). Or, for argument sake, if these are not false flags; the potential exists that young black men are not receiving the same mental health care, leading to the onslaught of prescriptions for psychotrophic drugs at the same rate as young white men.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The Sandy Hook shooter, for starts.
    Incorrect, try again (Fanapt).
    Last edited by dannno; 08-28-2015 at 04:51 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post


    Does that mean that all blacks are on SSRIs?

    Nobody is yet showing cause and effect- that SSRIs turned somebody normal into a mass murderer.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-28-2015 at 04:54 PM.

  24. #21
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Does that mean that all blacks are on SSRIs?
    No, it means black people commit crimes because they are disadvantaged in society and white people commit mass shootings because they are on SSRIs.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    And that would be an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you find an anecdote that one of the several mass shooters had stopped taking Celexa and Fanapt long enough to no longer produce metabolites in his system does not mean that there is no connection between SSRI's and violent ideation.

    Instead, a logical and scientific process would be to compare the ratio of medicated vs unmedicated mass shooters to the ration of medicated vs unmedicated violent psychopaths. If the ratio of medicated shooters is statistically significantly different than the ratio of medicated psychopaths, then conclusions may logically be drawn. Nobody is arguing that 100% of all mass shooters are on SSRIs.

    Finally, violent ideation is a well known and well documented side effect of SSRI type drugs.
    Again, this theory has already been explored and researched. Your side has a theory but no facts, and the facts that I present will never be enough to make you reconsider your position. Instead, there will be allegations of big pharma funded science and shilling, but again with no evidence.

    What Zippy said is correct. Mass shooters are mentally ill. It makes perfect sense that the odds of them being treated for mental illmess would be far greater than for the average population. There is true that early in the protocol there is a slight rise in violent or suicidal tendencies for people taking SSRIs, but Chantix (the stop smoking drug) has a much worse record in that respect. So where are the Chantix killers?
    For example, acute liver failure is a well known and swell documented side effect of acetaminophen overdose. If a patient goes to the doctor with acute liver failure after an acetaminophen overdose, then that condition is considered linked to the overdose, because such an outcome is a known side effect of the drug. Nobody calls liver failure from acetaminophen overdose a conspiracy theory.
    Thats because there's a mountain of scientific research to back up the theory.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Incorrect, try again (Fanapt).
    SHow me your source or STFU. According to Infowars, the Fanapt story is inaccurate - it was reported to the NY Daily News by an internet troll who claimed to be the shooter's uncle"

    The reason for it being removed was likely the fact, as reported by Democratic Underground, that the claim that Lanza was on Fanapt was allegedly made not by Lanza’s real uncle, but by an Internet troll who reportedly inserts himself into every mass shooting story by posing as a family member of the killer.
    http://www.infowars.com/fanapt-hoax-...nd-ssri-drugs/

    Seriously, when Infowars says it was a hoax, you can be pretty sure it was indeed a hoax.
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-28-2015 at 05:02 PM.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Nobody is yet showing cause and effect.
    What do you think "known documented" side effects are?

    A known documented side effect of ethyl alcohol is intoxication. Therefore the cause of drinking ethyl alcohol renders the effect of drunkenness.

    Indeed, the phrase "side effect" actually contains the word effect, because they are things that are known to be caused by the consumption of that substance.

    There is your cause and effect.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    SHow me your source or STFU.
    The OP.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Again, this theory has already been explored and researched. Your side has a theory but no facts, and the facts that I present will never be enough to make you reconsider your position. Instead, there will be allegations of big pharma funded science and shilling, but again with no evidence.

    What Zippy said is correct. Mass shooters are mentally ill. It makes perfect sense that the odds of them being treated for mental illmess would be far greater than for the average population. There is true that early in the protocol there is a slight rise in violent or suicidal tendencies for people taking SSRIs, but Chantix (the stop smoking drug) has a much worse record in that respect. So where are the Chantix killers?


    Thats because there's a mountain of scientific research to back up the theory.
    My brother is a psychologist. Totally against drug usage in treatment. None of his patients have gone on a killing spree. I think his way is more effective.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    My brother is a psychologist. Totally against drug usage in treatment. None of his patients have gone on a killing spree. I think his way is more effective.
    30 million people who ARE on SSRIs have not gone on killing sprees (and good for your brother!- I would agree that such drugs are probably way over- prescribed but I still see no proof they turn people into killers who were not already unstable)

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    My brother is a psychologist. Totally against drug usage in treatment. None of his patients have gone on a killing spree. I think his way is more effective.
    You know the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist, right?

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The OP.
    We have already established that the OP is wrong.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Fact Check: 355 Mass Shootings So Far in 2015?
    By BarryDonegan in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-04-2015, 12:06 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-28-2013, 01:16 PM
  3. Ben Swann Reality Check: Is Ron Paul really anti-Israel?
    By brandon_simpson in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-15-2011, 05:03 AM
  4. Acts of violence associated with anti-depressants
    By donnay in forum Open Discussion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 04-06-2009, 11:10 AM
  5. Reality Check: Can we really mass 70 mio votes come Dec 08?
    By Wingman in forum Grassroots Central
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-16-2007, 07:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •