Rand wouldn't punish feds who used Ashley Madison

[erowe1]

Anyone who can read the beliefs of Gary North (below) and come away thinking he stands for liberty in any way, shape, or form needs their head examined.

Ron Paul read them and came away thinking Gary North stood for liberty.

[Christian Liberty]

So.... I would have no representation, voice, or participation in society... = LIBERTY!

Heck... none of us are (really) represented in this society.

I would have no freedom of speech or expression... = LIBERTY!

Well, sort of. You can't blaspheme, no. But that doesn't amount to "no freedom of speech or expression."

What else?? I'm really starting to like this idea!

I wouldn't expect you to like it.

Could I question these ayatollahs... er.... 'religious leaders' or redress of greivances?

Not sure whether you're talking about church or state officials (which are institutionally separate) but either way... of course. Criticizing church or state should always be allowed.

Could I own firearms?

Yes, gun control is illegitimate.

Being a second-class citizen (if non-believers still alive are considered citizens)... would I be protected from unreasonable search and seizure?

Everyone should be protected from unreasonable search and seizure, whether citizen or sojurner.

If I chose to practice my own religion (being 'a heck of a lot more free than I am today!) would that be considered blasphemy?

Not necessarily, no. Public worship isn't allowed but its not blasphemy either, so not capitally punishable.

Seriously.... listen to yourself.

What you advocate is ANATHEMA to a free people. It is LITERALLY religious statism incarnate. This would lead to massive civil war and the death of millions... You can't force religion on people, no matter how much you believe in it.

Meh, I just care what the Bible says.

[jllundqu]

Heck... none of us are (really) represented in this society.


Well, sort of. You can't blaspheme, no. But that doesn't amount to "no freedom of speech or expression."


I wouldn't expect you to like it.



Not sure whether you're talking about church or state officials (which are institutionally separate) but either way... of course. Criticizing church or state should always be allowed.



Yes, gun control is illegitimate.



Everyone should be protected from unreasonable search and seizure, whether citizen or sojurner.



Not necessarily, no. Public worship isn't allowed but its not blasphemy either, so not capitally punishable.


Meh, I just care what the Bible says.

I understand that we are just waxing philosophic here, but you must understand that if a group tried to institute what you describe, people like me would violently resist you... by the millions... I would literally fight you to the death to prevent people like you from attempting to force me into submission...

Pretty sure Jesus would want people to voluntarily choose to worship, rather than have an oligarchy of fanatics force their version of it on everyone by the barrel of a gun.

[Christian Liberty]

I understand that we are just waxing philosophic here, but you must understand that if a group tried to institute what you describe, people like me would violently resist you... by the millions... I would literally fight you to the death to prevent people like you from attempting to force me into submission...

Well, it wouldn't implemented in a situation like that. If most people were against it it wouldn't be possible anyway. If most people in one part of the country were very for it but most people in another part were very against it, I'd advocate splitting the country in two.

I support extremely local government, so you could just move to a different locality, assuming there weren't mass conversions to the point where every locality decided to do this.

Pretty sure Jesus would want people to voluntarily choose to worship, rather than have an oligarchy of fanatics force their version of it on everyone by the barrel of a gun.

You wouldn't be forced to worship but just read the law Jesus said he didn't come to abolish (Matthew 5:17)

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul read them and came away thinking Gary North stood for liberty.

Prove it. Prove to me that he read those ideas about capital punishment and proclaimed them to stand for liberty. If you can, if you find those exact words, I will denounce Ron Paul immediately.

[cajuncocoa]

No one has answered my question yet about a theocracy or Christian Liberty... what about us non-Christians... where do we fit in to this ideal of yours? Serious question.

Range of capital offenses


North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,^[24][25] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.^[26] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.^[3][27] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates the practice [of homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."^[28]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblically approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.^[4][29]

[Christian Liberty]

Prove it. Prove to me that he read those ideas about capital punishment and proclaimed them to stand for liberty. If you can, if you find those exact words, I will denounce Ron Paul immediately.

I think erowe is more saying that Ron Paul thinks Gary North supports liberty generally, not necessarily that he considers those PARTICULAR positions to be pro-liberty. Kind of like how I'd say Rand Paul generally supports liberty despite being overly statist (yes, I said it... if you don't understand why, meh)

Phil Kayser is another theonomist that has endorsed Ron Paul:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1173338.html

As has Joel McDurmon, as has Bojidar Marinov. I'd be shocked if there weren't others.

[Christian Liberty]

Range of capital offenses


North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,^[24][25] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.^[26] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.^[3][27] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates the practice [of homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."^[28]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblically approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.^[4][29]

Find me an actual (accurate) quote from Gary North saying "unbelievers" should be stoned, and I'll denounce him as a tyrant. On the other hand, if I don't prove it, I'm going to report you and block you for lying. How's that?

[Christian Liberty]

Because, if I knew you in person I'd bet you money that's taken out of context somehow. Even the Covenanters don't believe that, and most of them are more radical than us

[jllundqu]

Range of capital offenses


North favors capital punishment for a range of offenders; including women who lie about their virginity, blasphemers, nonbelievers, children who curse their parents,^[24][25] male homosexuals, and other people who commit acts deemed capital offenses in the Old Testament.^[26] North also favors capital punishment for women who have abortions.^[3][27] North stated that the biblical admonition to kill homosexuals in Leviticus is God's "law and its morally appropriate sanction", arguing that "God is indeed a homophobe" who "hates the practice [of homosexuality] and those who practice it" and "hates the sin and hates the sinner."^[28]

North has said that capital punishment should be carried out by stoning, because it is the biblically approved method of execution and it is cheap due to the plentiful and convenient supply of stones.^[4][29]

And that's why I own many many weapons.... of various calibers. I would put a .40cal hollow point in Mr. North's fascist pumpkin before I let people like him in a position of power where he could charge me with capital punishment for exercising my beliefs.... if the above mentioned article is accurate, that is.

[hells_unicorn]

I understand that we are just waxing philosophic here, but you must understand that if a group tried to institute what you describe, people like me would violently resist you... by the millions... I would literally fight you to the death to prevent people like you from attempting to force me into submission...

Pretty sure Jesus would want people to voluntarily choose to worship, rather than have an oligarchy of fanatics force their version of it on everyone by the barrel of a gun.

Who said anything about forcing you into submission my self-conscious friend. I could be wrong, but I think CL shares my position that secession from pagan institutions like the U.S. Constitutional system is our preferred road of political dissent. If you don't want to live in a Christian society, don't visit us. But if you do, you will respect the boundaries of said system or else be subject to immediate expulsion.

I have no interest in conquest, otherwise I'd be out there with the Trump and Huckabee supporters. I am also not interested in sharing a government with people who profess libertine or antinomian views of morality and think that public dissemination of anti-Christian political doctrines is some sort of Utopian ideal. Multiculturalism is a Frankfurt School sham that needs to be purged from society, and afterward, nations need to be properly re-constituted with appropriate boundaries to stave off the coming tide of civil unrest.

This visual of us forcing conversion at gun point is hyperbolic nonsense, and more applicable to Marxist governments and past practices of the Roman Catholic Church. Thomas Paine was an idiot, and Thomas Jefferson wasn't far behind him, and proof of this is all over their rabid support for the French Revolution, which is where we had some actual mass executions for holding the wrong position on religion and politics within a context of Enlightenment and Post-Enlightenment western civilization.

[jllundqu]

And that's why I own many many weapons.... of various calibers. I would put a .40cal hollow point in Mr. North's fascist pumpkin before I let people like him in a position of power where he could charge me with capital punishment for exercising my beliefs.... if the above mentioned article is accurate, that is.

I would also fight to the death to defend the other banished groups of humanity listed above... homosexuals, lying women, blasphemers, and oh yeah... mouthy children... I don't think clipping medium size rocks at babies heads is very Christian

[hells_unicorn]

Find me an actual (accurate) quote from Gary North saying "unbelievers" should be stoned, and I'll denounce him as a tyrant. On the other hand, if I don't prove it, I'm going to report you and block you for lying. How's that?

I think you can pretty much assume cajun as either a liar or a mentally unstable person and just break off contact with her. She's on my ignore list now and my confidence in female intelligence is already starting to make a comeback.

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul read them and came away thinking Gary North stood for liberty.

Never mind, erowe. I found my own proof. $#@! this $#@! and this place. I'm out. I'll find liberty somewhere else because it sure won't be found here. Not with these people influencing things from now on.

[hells_unicorn]

I would also fight to the death to defend the other banished groups of humanity listed above... homosexuals, lying women, blasphemers, and oh yeah... mouthy children... I don't think clipping medium size rocks at babies heads is very Christian

It's interesting to note that the whole country just witnessed a homosexual murdering a lying woman...I mean news reporter...who was living with a man out of wedlock down in Virginia. A truly sad and disgusting turn of events, but also a typical outcome for the "banished groups of humanity" that you are ready to die for. If you really had compassion, you'd be telling these people about the error of their ways before they'd come to an end like this, not blessing them in their errors.

[dannno]

Never mind, erowe. I found my own proof. $#@! this $#@! and this place. I'm out. I'll find liberty somewhere else because it sure won't be found here. Not with these people influencing things from now on.

I dunno we have always had one or two theos here, I don't remember them ever convincing anybody of anything.

[jllundqu]

Find me an actual (accurate) quote from Gary North saying "unbelievers" should be stoned, and I'll denounce him as a tyrant. On the other hand, if I don't prove it, I'm going to report you and block you for lying. How's that?

"When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime... The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death."
-Gary North, Olson, Walter (November 1, 1998). "Reasonable Doubts: Invitation to a Stoning". reason.com. Reason Foundation. Retrieved October 24, 2014. "

There's a lot more out there, but he basically thinks that Old Testament Law IE Leviticus Chpt 20 is a good guide, which basically calls everything a capital crime punishable by death... sleeping with your wife during her period, for example... Absolute bananas crazy talk.

And as for HU's message above. I support a human beings right to make his or her own choices and live with the consequences. Myself for example. I don't for one second believe that Jesus is my savior and the son of god. I make my own choices and live my life accordingly in service to my fellow man. I'm not perfect. but I'm pretty sure none of us are. I don't want nor expect you or anyone to purport to tell me the "error of my ways" as I find no error in my ways, just as I'm sure you find no error in yours.

[Tywysog Cymru]

Good! (as far as political implications yes they could accept baptism, take the citizenship oath and become citizens.)

Would there be scrutiny to make sure they weren't faking their Christianity?

What happens to the Cultural Christians in a theonomic society? I'm speaking here of the typical person in a denomination like the Church of England where they only go to Church to be baptized, married, and buried.

[Carlybee]

Ron Paul's homeschool curriculum was written partially by Gary North? That is very disappointing. I may have to rethink my participation as well.

[jllundqu]

Ron Paul's homeschool curriculum was written partially by Gary North? That is very disappointing. I may have to rethink my participation as well.

I looked into the Ron Paul homeschool stuff and was very disappointed. I've since snatched up a plethora of different stuff... Book Shark (basically secular version of Sonlight), Timberdoodle, Math-U-See, etc etc.... Working wonderfully so far.

I was also dismayed when I saw North's participation.

[jllundqu]

There was some dustup about his involvement from the get go:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ght=Gary+North

[idiom]

You really want to kill marriage off? Stone people for adultery.

Ain't no one going to get married.

Dafuq sort of forum am I on?

"Your water bill payment was a day late. That's a violation of your contract. That's a capital offence in this voluntary community sir!"

[Carlybee]

I looked into the Ron Paul homeschool stuff and was very disappointed. I've since snatched up a plethora of different stuff... Book Shark (basically secular version of Sonlight), Timberdoodle, Math-U-See, etc etc.... Working wonderfully so far.

I was also dismayed when I saw North's participation.

I find the fact that he associates with this Christian Taliban guy at all very disturbing.

[hells_unicorn]

Ron Paul's homeschool curriculum was written partially by Gary North? That is very disappointing. I may have to rethink my participation as well.

This is the part where the hippies realize they don't like the consequences of actual liberty and then go off to join forces with Bernie Sanders. I saw this coming a mile away and am not surprised one bit.

You really want to kill marriage off? Stone people for adultery.

I'm not in line with this position, but it is interesting to point out that divorce rates have been skyrocketing in western libertine nations for the past century or so, while the small Middle East conclaves where adultery is still a capitol offense we see marriage rates staying steady, and also a lot less STDs.

"Your water bill payment was a day late. That's a violation of your contract. That's a capital offence in this voluntary community sir!"

And more pointless hyperbole via bad analogy. Anyone who equates divorce with being a day late with your water bill does well not to marry, and such an attitude definitely explains why no-fault divorce has become the 2nd sacrament of secular America, the 1st being infanticide.

[Carlybee]

This is the part where the hippies realize they don't like the consequences of actual liberty and then go off to join forces with Bernie Sanders. .

Liberty my ass. Gary North's religious beliefs in no way equate to liberty. He is a radical fundamentalist..which is totally contrary to the principles of liberty. I'm not sure why you would assume I would support Sanders. I'm not a Marxist.

[dannno]

There was some dustup about his involvement from the get go:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ght=Gary+North

Apparently the curriculum was supposed to be designed for Christians and non-Christians. Gary North probably has a lot of knowledge in some areas that are important to the liberty movement, even though I vehemently oppose his supposed views on theocracy.

[DisneyFan]

Unless there is some evidence that North has inserted his controversial views into the curriculum, I don't really see the problem.

[heavenlyboy34]

Liberty my ass. Gary North's religious beliefs in no way equate to liberty. He is a radical fundamentalist..which is totally contrary to the principles of liberty. I'm not sure why you would assume I would support Sanders. I'm not a Marxist.

Can you define this? I doni't know of anything "fundamental" about North's opinions WRT religion.

[euphemia]

Here's where I stand on this: The federal government should not be involved in anyone's sex lives, but it should also not be a vehicle for it. Government emails should be only for government business, end of discussion. Nobody should be looking at FB, checking personal emails, shopping, or shopping around if they are on a government machine, email service, or anything touching government internet.

If you want to shop or whatever, do it on your own time on a device you pay for.

[Carlybee]

Can you define this? I doni't know of anything "fundamental" about North's opinions WRT religion.

Christian Reconstructionism is ultra fundamentalism.