Trial, and error

[pcosmar]

and in that you are only partially correct.

the crime.? the victim.? The original sin (prior to Adam)?

perhaps,,again,,

I mentioned in another thread, a surprise. One that some here will appreciate.

There is a surprise in this trial.. (will it happen,,did it happen) well,, it is after the War in Heaven whenever that is done.

The prosecutor convicts himself

just a glimpse of what was shown. more than good enough for me.

[pcosmar]

In a sense, you could say we are witnesses, but our testimony has no bearing on anyone other than ourselves, so we're more akin to defendants giving testimony.

actually, no.
as witnesses we will recount the atrocities done to Human Kind (to God's Creation) through the ages.
We will recount our temptations as well as our sin.

and those accountable will be called into account.
We are talking Perfect Justice Here.

[pcosmar]

There is an aspect of the trial I want to present..

I was hoping, as most Christians are familiar with the concept of a trial.. And a final Judgement.

even this was contested..

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.…

We are the witnesses.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[TER]

The witnesses are the Saints who have run the race, received their crowns, and right now pray for us before the throne of God, as described in the Book of Revelation.

[pcosmar]

The witnesses are the Saints who have run the race, received their crowns, and right now pray for us before the throne of God, as described in the Book of Revelation.

Yes,, that is one description from scripture. Believers,, from all time.
Us,, if you call Christ brother.

We are/will be witnesses.. in the trial.. but also here,,

We are to give testimony,, Be ready to give answer,, here..

We testify of Christ,,

But it is an aspect of the trial,, of Judgement that is often overlooked. I had never heard it taught.
But it is true..

We are on the witness stand.. and this is much deeper truth.

[pcosmar]

Time to bump

and a bump for time.

We are in time,, but outside of time eternity exists. and this is all done.

[pcosmar]

The witnesses are the Saints who have run the race, received their crowns, and right now pray for us before the throne of God, as described in the Book of Revelation.

as described.
almost 2000 years ago..
And yet John saw it happen.

And I saw it too,, or a small sliver of it.

and yet here we are,, doing time on earth.

There is a war ongoing,,

There is the trial..

We are already there.

and when you get that,, everything changes

[Sola_Fide]

actually, no.
as witnesses we will recount the atrocities done to Human Kind (to God's Creation) through the ages.
We will recount our temptations as well as our sin.

and those accountable will be called into account.
We are talking Perfect Justice Here.

Yes, man will recount his sin, and be held accountable for the sin he committed. This idea that you have that man is some neutral player is completely unbiblical. Man is willingly sinful and will be judged because of his sin.

If man doesn't have a perfect righteousness, if a man has even one sin on his account, he won't be able to stand in the presence of God. He will be cast out.

[donnay]

Yes, man will recount his sin, and be held accountable for the sin he committed. This idea that you have that man is some neutral player is completely unbiblical. Man is willingly sinful and will be judged because of his sin.

If man doesn't have a perfect righteousness, if a man has even one sin on his account, he won't be able to stand in the presence of God. He will be cast out.

Jesus dying on the cross rent the veil from top to bottom and through him you may be forgiven.

____________


Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Chronicles 7:14 - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ezekiel 18:21-23 - But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. (Read More...)

Revelation 2:5 - Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh [them] shall have mercy.

Matthew 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Romans 2:4 - Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

------------

If you repent, and really mean it (God knows your heart so HE cannot be fooled) and ask it in Jesus' name, your sins are blotted out and your slate is clean.

[pcosmar]

If man doesn't have a perfect righteousness, if a man has even one sin on his account, he won't be able to stand in the presence of God. He will be cast out.

I stand there.
I saw (a sliver of) the Trial.

I am there on the stand.

and I am still trying to grasp the realities that knowledge presents.

some things are clear. and some less so.

The first and most notable thing to come to grip with is that the trial is not about man,, or judging man.

Man was already judged.
And Man was redeemed.

This is the Revelation.
It was new to me because of what I had learned. and I had to rethink much. (still am)

And living in linear time makes Heavens Eternity hard to grasp.

I know what I know. it cannot be unseen. and it can be hard to explain.

But I am there and I am not on trial.

The accusers arguments are defeated by the testimony of the witnesses.

The accuser will convict himself.

and all creation will Glorify God .

[Sola_Fide]

I stand there.
I saw (a sliver of) the Trial.

I am there on the stand.

and I am still trying to grasp the realities that knowledge presents.

some things are clear. and some less so.

The first and most notable thing to come to grip with is that the trial is not about man,, or judging man.

Man was already judged.
And Man was redeemed.

This is the Revelation.
It was new to me because of what I had learned. and I had to rethink much. (still am)

And living in linear time makes Heavens Eternity hard to grasp.

I know what I know. it cannot be unseen. and it can be hard to explain.

But I am there and I am not on trial.

The accusers arguments are defeated by the testimony of the witnesses.

The accuser will convict himself.

and all creation will Glorify God .

Yeah Pete.... You're having these visions and everything, but if your visions aren't Biblical, then you know where else they are coming from.

Your idea that God's judgement is not about judging man is completely wrong. The judgement of the wicked is on just about every page of the Bible.

If you are having visions that the final judgment is not about man, then it's not Biblical, which means it's not coming from God. God speaks with His Word only.

[Sonny Tufts]

Man is willingly sinful and will be judged because of his sin.

If man doesn't have a perfect righteousness, if a man has even one sin on his account, he won't be able to stand in the presence of God. He will be cast out.

Your hopelessly inconsistent positions continue. If, as you claim, man is inherently sinful it follows that no man can ever have perfect righteousness because he will always have at least one sin on his record. It then follows that all men will be cast out, thereby making the entire concept of The Elect nonsense because no one will be saved.

[pcosmar]

Yeah Pete.... You're having these visions and everything,

Not plural,, I was shown a very small sliver,,, a glimpse,, a flash ,, just a small view of my place in that.

It was in answer to a question I had asked years earlier,, and my question was answered,, and then some.

I am still in awe years later,, and still grappling with the implications.

[pcosmar]

If you are having visions that the final judgment is not about man, then it's not Biblical,

So you say

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

but I don't think you know the book that well.

[Sola_Fide]

Your hopelessly inconsistent positions continue. If, as you claim, man is inherently sinful it follows that no man can ever have perfect righteousness because he will always have at least one sin on his record. It then follows that all men will be cast out, thereby making the entire concept of The Elect nonsense because no one will be saved.

No.

The elect will be righteous in God's sight because the perfect life of Jesus will be imputed to them on their account.

This is what the gospel of Jesus Christ is.

[acptulsa]

The first and most notable thing to come to grip with is that the trial is not about man,, or judging man.

Man was already judged.
And Man was redeemed...

The accuser will convict himself.

and all creation will Glorify God .

Your idea that God's judgement is not about judging man is completely wrong. The judgement of the wicked is on just about every page of the Bible.

If you are having visions that the final judgment is not about man, then it's not Biblical, which means it's not coming from God. God speaks with His Word only.

The elect will be righteous in God's sight because the perfect life of Jesus will be imputed to them on their account.

This is what the gospel of Jesus Christ is.

And what else do we find throughout the Bible? We find we are not to judge. We find the publican, in his humility and repentance, will ascend to heaven before the Pharisee, who spends all his time concerning himself with who else but him will and will not go to heaven.

That, my man, is Biblical.

[Ender]

And what else do we find throughout the Bible? We find we are not to judge. We find the publican, in his humility and repentance, will ascend to heaven before the Pharisee, who spends all his time concerning himself with who else but him will and will not go to heaven.

That, my man, is Biblical.

Yep.

[Dr.3D]

The witnesses are the Saints who have run the race, received their crowns, and right now pray for us before the throne of God, as described in the Book of Revelation.

Yes, that goes well with these verses.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels-- to say nothing of ordinary matters?

[pcosmar]

Do you not know that we are to judge angels,, ??

as noted,, the implications are many.

[Sola_Fide]

And what else do we find throughout the Bible? We find we are not to judge. We find the publican, in his humility and repentance, will ascend to heaven before the Pharisee, who spends all his time concerning himself with who else but him will and will not go to heaven.

That, my man, is Biblical.

But if we are talking about the direct teaching of imputation, then you need to go to the book of Romans and other epistles where this is explained. If you won't go there for some ridiculous reason, then it confirms what I already know: that you aren't a Christian and don't have a Christian doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture anyway.

[pcosmar]

But if we are talking about the direct teaching of imputation, then you need to go to the book of Romans and other epistles where this is explained. If you won't go there for some ridiculous reason, then it confirms what I already know: that you aren't a Christian and don't have a Christian doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture anyway.

I have read Romans,,
And not being a Roman, I took what I learned and moved on.

I don't camp out there.

[Sola_Fide]

I have read Romans,,
And not being a Roman, I took what I learned and moved on.

I don't camp out there.

I know why. The Spirit of God gives His people a love for His word.

[pcosmar]

I know why. The Spirit of God gives His people a love for His word.

Romans is not the Whole of God's Word, nor is it all God's words.. It does contain some.

I take the whole book as a whole,, knowing that it contains God's Word.
But it also contains the words of others.

go directly to God for answers.

[Sola_Fide]

Romans is not the Whole of God's Word, nor is it all God's words.. It does contain some.

I take the whole book as a whole,, knowing that it contains God's Word.
But it also contains the words of others.

go directly to God for answers.

So now you are saying that all the words of the book of Romans are not the inspired words of God? Hahaha.... OK bro. You go for that.

(And to think, this is a guy who accepts an obvious 1st century forgery rather than the pristine Word of God). You deserve to believe forgeries if you don't love His word.

[pcosmar]

So now you are saying that all the words of the book of Romans are not the inspired words of God?

NO I do not. (you like twisting words)
and I find it hard to believe that anyone could be stupid enough as to actually believe that.

It is a letter from Paul to the Romans. And yes,, it contains the Word of God,, as well as the words of a man.

I speak the Word of God,, but not all the words I speak are Gods Word.

If you cannot grasp that distinction you are beyond help.

by the way,, Paul starts Romans with a Paraphrased Quote from Enoch,, Rom 1:18
Right after his greeting and introduction.

[pcosmar]

and a bump

[pcosmar]

Yes, man will recount his sin, and be held accountable for the sin he committed. This idea that you have that man is some neutral player is completely unbiblical.

Nothing will be hidden,, neither action nor intent.
Though the idea that man has been corrupted is wholly biblical.

Sin entered the world through Adam. It did not originate with Adam.
There was a War in Heaven,, and the rebellious were cast to earth. The Original Sin was cast to earth.
It preexisted. And it was in the Garden.

It is Biblical..sin enter the world through Adam, Yes Adam sinned..And Christ Redeemed. It is Biblical.
The Redemption part being the Good News.

[Sola_Fide]

Nothing will be hidden,, neither action nor intent.
Though the idea that man has been corrupted is wholly biblical.

Sin entered the world through Adam. It did not originate with Adam.
There was a War in Heaven,, and the rebellious were cast to earth. The Original Sin was cast to earth.
It preexisted. And it was in the Garden.

It is Biblical..sin enter the world through Adam, Yes Adam sinned..And Christ Redeemed. It is Biblical.
The Redemption part being the Good News.

I don't really know what you're saying here.

It doesn't matter who sinned. Adam acted as the federal head of all of mankind when he sinned, thereby condemning man to death.

Just as the Second Adam, Jesus, acts as the federal head for His elect people, imputing His perfect life to their account so they are saved.

This is all in Romans 5, if you care to read it.

[pcosmar]

I don't really know what you're saying here.

of course not.
you don't read the bible,, only the approved verses you have been given. to accuse and to argue.

[Sola_Fide]

of course not.
you don't read the bible,, only the approved verses you have been given. to accuse and to argue.

What is your problem with Romans 5? Have you ever read it?