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Thread: Anti-salad article

  1. #1

    Anti-salad article

    From Drudge;


    Why salad is so overrated

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...3d3_story.html


    As the world population grows, we have a pressing need to eat better and farm better, and those of us trying to figure out how to do those things have pointed at lots of different foods as problematic. Almonds, for their water use. Corn, for the monoculture. Beef, for its greenhouse gases. In each of those cases, there’s some truth in the finger-pointing, but none of them is a clear-cut villain.

    There’s one food, though, that has almost nothing going for it. It occupies precious crop acreage, requires fossil fuels to be shipped, refrigerated, around the world, and adds nothing but crunch to the plate.

    It’s salad, and here are three main reasons why we need to rethink it.

    Salad vegetables are pitifully low in nutrition. The biggest thing wrong with salads is lettuce, and the biggest thing wrong with lettuce is that it’s a leafy-green waste of resources.

    In July, when I wrote a piece defending corn on the calories-per-acre metric, a number of people wrote to tell me I was ignoring nutrition. Which I was. Not because nutrition isn’t important, but because we get all the nutrition we need in a fraction of our recommended daily calories, and filling in the rest of the day’s food is a job for crops like corn. But if you think nutrition is the most important metric, don’t direct your ire at corn. Turn instead to lettuce.

    One of the people I heard from about nutrition is organic consultant Charles Benbrook. He and colleague Donald Davis developed a nutrient quality index — a way to rate foods based on how much of 27 nutrients they contain per 100 calories. Four of the five lowest-ranking foods (by serving size) are salad ingredients: cucumbers, radishes, lettuce and celery. (The fifth is eggplant.)

    Those foods’ nutritional profile can be partly explained by one simple fact: They’re almost all water. Although water figures prominently in just about every vegetable (the sweet potato, one of the least watery, is 77 percent), those four salad vegetables top the list at 95 to 97 percent water. A head of iceberg lettuce has the same water content as a bottle of Evian (1-liter size: 96 percent water, 4 percent bottle) and is only marginally more nutritious.

    Take collard greens. They are 90 percent water, which still sounds like a lot. But it means that, compared with lettuce, every pound of collard greens contains about twice as much stuff that isn’t water, which, of course, is where the nutrition lives. But you’re also likely to eat much more of them, because you cook them. A large serving of lettuce feels like a bona fide vegetable, but when you saute it (not that I’m recommending that), you’ll see that two cups of romaine cooks down to a bite or two.

    The corollary to the nutrition problem is the expense problem. The makings of a green salad — say, a head of lettuce, a cucumber and a bunch of radishes — cost about $3 at my supermarket. For that, I could buy more than two pounds of broccoli, sweet potatoes or just about any frozen vegetable going, any of which would make for a much more nutritious side dish to my roast chicken.

    Lettuce is a vehicle to transport refrigerated water from farm to table. When we switch to vegetables that are twice as nutritious — like those collards or tomatoes or green beans — not only do we free up half the acres now growing lettuce, we cut back on the fossil fuels and other resources needed for transport and storage.

    Save the planet, skip the salad.

    Salad fools dieters into making bad choices. Lots of what passes for salad in restaurants is just the same as the rest of the calorie-dense diabolically palatable food that’s making us fat, but with a few lettuce leaves tossed in. Next time you order a salad, engage in a little thought experiment: Picture the salad without the lettuce, cucumber and radish, which are nutritionally and calorically irrelevant. Is it a little pile of croutons and cheese, with a few carrot shavings and lots of ranch dressing?

    Call something “salad,” and it immediately acquires what Pierre Chandon calls a “health halo.” Chandon, professor of marketing at INSEAD, an international business school in Fontainebleau, France, says that once people have the idea it’s good for them, they stop paying attention “to its actual nutritional content or, even worse, to its portion size.”

    I won’t be the first to point out that items labeled “salad” at chain restaurants are often as bad, if not worse, than pastas or sandwiches or burgers when it comes to calories. Take Applebee’s, where the Oriental Chicken Salad clocks in at 1,400 calories, and the grilled version is only 110 calories lighter. Even the Grilled Chicken Caesar, the least calorific of the salads on the regular menu, is 800 calories.

    Of course, salad isn’t always a bad choice, and Applebee’s has a selection of special menu items under 550 calories (many chain restaurants have a similar menu category). Applebee’s Thai Chicken Salad is only 390 calories (although it has more sodium than the Oriental Chicken Salad). Other chains, like relative newcomer Sweetgreen, have a good selection of salads that go further toward earning their health halo: more actual vegetables, less fried stuff.

    I asked Bret Thorn, columnist at Nation’s Restaurant News and longtime observer of the restaurant industry, about salads. “Chefs are cognizant of what’s going on in the psychology of diners,” he said. “They’re doing a kind of psychological health washing,” not just with salads, but with labels like “fresh” and “natural,” and foods that are “local” and “seasonal.” “A chef is not a nutritionist, or public health advocate,” Thorn points out. “They make food that customers want to buy.”

    And we want to buy things that are fried or creamy or salty or sweet, or all of those things. Which doesn’t mean that the right salad can’t be a good choice for a nutritious meal. It just means that it’s easy to get snookered.

    Salad has unfortunate repercussions in our food supply. Lettuce has a couple of No. 1 unenviable rankings in the food world. For starters, it’s the top source of food waste, vegetable division, becoming more than 1 billion pounds of uneaten salad every year. But it’s also the chief culprit for foodborne illnesses. According to the Centers for Disease Control, green leafies accounted for 22 percent of all food-borne illnesses from 1998-2008.

    To be fair, “leafy vegetables,” the CDC category, also includes cabbage, spinach and other kinds of greens, but the reason the category dominates is that the greens are often eaten raw. As in salad.

    None of this is to say that salad doesn’t have a role in our food supply. I like salad, and there’s been many a time a big bowl of salad on the dinner table has kept me from a second helping of lasagna. The salads we make at home aren’t the same as the ones we buy in restaurants; according to the recipe app Yummly, its collection of lettuce-based salads average 398 calories per serving (although a few do get up into Oriental Chicken territory).

    An iceberg wedge, with radishes and bacon and blue-cheese dressing, is something I certainly have no plans to give up. But as we look for ways to rejigger our food supply to grow crops responsibly and feed people nutritiously, maybe we should stop thinking about salad as a wholesome staple, and start thinking about it as a resource-hungry luxury.



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  3. #2
    For Christ's sake, just buy some damned seeds and grow it if you're so concerned. What food won't these people demonize?
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    As the world population grows, we have a pressing need to eat better and farm better, and those of us trying to figure out how to do those things have pointed at lots of different foods as problematic. Almonds, for their water use. Corn, for the monoculture. Beef, for its greenhouse gases. In each of those cases, there’s some truth in the finger-pointing, but none of them is a clear-cut villain.

    There’s one food, though, that has almost nothing going for it. It occupies precious crop acreage, requires fossil fuels to be shipped, refrigerated, around the world, and adds nothing but crunch to the plate....
    The biggest thing wrong with salads is lettuce, and the biggest thing wrong with lettuce is that it’s a leafy-green waste of resources.
    Eating a certain way to "save the world"? No thanks. I'll use all the resources I want, and far from guilty: I'll feel proud of it.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    For Christ's sake, just buy some damned seeds and grow it if you're so concerned. What food won't these people demonize?
    Soylent Green.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    For Christ's sake, just buy some damned seeds and grow it if you're so concerned. What food won't these people demonize?
    -Lettuce grows fast.
    -It's tasty and refreshing.

    What else do you need to know.

    This article borders on the ridiculous.

    Oh and I have a special disgust for this part;

    As the world population grows, we have a pressing need to eat better and farm better, and those of us trying to figure out how to do those things have pointed at lots of different foods as problematic. Almonds, for their water use. Corn, for the monoculture. Beef, for its greenhouse gases. In each of those cases, there’s some truth in the finger-pointing, but none of them is a clear-cut villain.
    Thats the kind of crap they were trying to feed me in University. Government is the solution to everything, although it wasn't spelled out as that... But who else is supposed to manage that ?
    "I am a bird"

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Government is the solution to everything
    Algae! Nothing but algae! With the right flavoring, it can be made to taste like anything. Everyone should eat nothing but Spirulina algae -- the only food to be given a 5-star Sustainability Rating from the government's Department of Food Righteousness board.

  8. #7
    Greens are an important part of a healthy diet - I'm not talking iceberg lettuce - I'm talking spinach, arugula, kale, water cress, sprouts and many others.

    I don't eat a ton of salads, but I have them once in a while and I try to cook down greens in grass fed butter occasionally as well.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Greens are an important part of a healthy diet - I'm not talking iceberg lettuce - I'm talking spinach, arugula, kale, water cress, sprouts and many others.

    I don't eat a ton of salads, but I have them once in a while and I try to cook down greens in grass fed butter occasionally as well.
    Kale is probably the most disgusting veggie ever conceived. Love me some spinach and lots of others, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Kale is probably the most disgusting veggie ever conceived. Love me some spinach and lots of others, though.
    Have you ever cooked it down? It doesn't taste much different than any other greens once cooked down.

    Arugula is quite bitter in salad, more than kale, but once you cook it down the bitterness goes away as well.

    I buy large bags of wild arugula and usually cook it down.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    If you hate lettuce that much, switch to fresh spinach. It's much more nutritious. There, I solved your dilemma, now why do you care about what I eat?
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Have you ever cooked it down? It doesn't taste much different than any other greens once cooked down.

    Arugula is quite bitter in salad, more than kale, but once you cook it down the bitterness goes away as well.

    I buy large bags of wild arugula and usually cook it down.
    Cooking it also takes away the nutrition. I prefer my veggies raw when I can.
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  14. #12
    I use spinach and romaine. Chunks of carrots, green onions, red cabbage, bell peppers, tomatoes, avocados. My salads are nutritious.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Kale is probably the most disgusting veggie ever conceived. Love me some spinach and lots of others, though.
    Ya ain't cooking it right. It has almost a bacon-y flavor if done well. I like it in soup, from what I recall of the recipe: garlic, onion, celery, carrots, white beans. Oh wait...I'll find you the recipe:

    http://m.allrecipes.com/recipe/13278...up/?mxt=t06rda

    I don't use potatoes, I use the white beans. It's called vegetarian, but I use chicken broth.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Ya ain't cooking it right. It has almost a bacon-y flavor if done well. I like it in soup, from what I recall of the recipe: garlic, onion, celery, carrots, white beans. Oh wait...I'll find you the recipe:

    http://m.allrecipes.com/recipe/13278...up/?mxt=t06rda

    I don't use potatoes, I use the white beans. It's called vegetarian, but I use chicken broth.
    I've thought about adding some veggies to my Ramen.
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    Ya ain't cooking it right. It has almost a bacon-y flavor if done well. I like it in soup, from what I recall of the recipe: garlic, onion, celery, carrots, white beans. Oh wait...I'll find you the recipe:

    http://m.allrecipes.com/recipe/13278...up/?mxt=t06rda

    I don't use potatoes, I use the white beans. It's called vegetarian, but I use chicken broth.
    I must admit I've never cooked it before. Just had it in a salad once and knew I never wanted it again. :P Thanks for teh recipe. xoxo
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  18. #16
    It's PEOPLE!



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  20. #17
    I just thought of a way to make this thread offensive. What do you get when you cross a Mexican with an octopus? I don't know, but it can sure pick lettuce! lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Cooking it also takes away the nutrition. I prefer my veggies raw when I can.
    No, not necessarily. Cooking often increases the nutritional value of many foods.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I've thought about adding some veggies to my Ramen.
    That there's a step in the right direction.

    Not sure how anyone over college-age can still tolerate that $#@! though.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    That there's a step in the right direction.

    Not sure how anyone over college-age can still tolerate that $#@! though
    .
    danke is "special" in a number of ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  24. #21
    I am going to have to go with the Earle of Sandwich on this one.

    meats,cheese and broth are food. bread is good for neatness and sopping up broth.

    I do like me some greens and beans though...
    I hear Bacon grease is the key ingredient to the good stuff.

    Polk Salad Annie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCSsVvlj6YA

    (firefox won't let me embed anymore)
    Last edited by HVACTech; 08-24-2015 at 05:03 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Cooking it also takes away the nutrition. I prefer my veggies raw when I can.
    There are different opinions on that - cooking down veggies also helps us expend less energy digesting and so we can ingest more of the vegetable so in some cases depending on the nutrient loss it can actually be beneficial to cook veggies.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...are-healthier/

    Here is a guide:

    http://www.health.com/health/gallery...7296_3,00.html

    Asparagus - cooked
    Beets - raw
    Broccoli - raw
    Mushrooms - cooked
    Onion - raw
    Red pepper - raw
    Spinach - cooked (Have it cooked and you'll absorb more calcium, iron, and magnesium.)
    Tomatoes - cooked


    More advice:

    http://paleoleap.com/cooking-vegetables-pale/
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #23
    //
    Last edited by specsaregood; 05-22-2016 at 10:23 PM.

  27. #24
    Why You Need to Cook these Vegetables for Maximum Nutrition

    You know you should eat your vegetables - but are they better cooked or raw? Raw vegetables of all kinds are great sources of vitamins, minerals, anti-oxidants, and fiber. However, the finest vegetables available are of no value to you if you cannot properly digest them - a key issue with some raw vegetables.

    Eating raw cruciferous vegetables actually suppresses your thyroid's hormone production, creating fatigue, coldness in your body and a slowing of your metabolism. Cruciferous vegetables include broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, kale, mustard greens, radishes, rutabagas and turnips.

    So, how can you get the benefits of these great cruciferous vegetables without all the negative effects?

    When eating cruciferous vegetables, it's important to cook them to avoid the thyroid-suppressing properties. But what if you are committed to a raw food diet (or you simply want to enjoy them raw)?

    Body Ecology's system of health and healing has a solution for raw foodists who want to eat cabbage, kale and collards … ferment them! This gets rid of the thyroid-suppressing effect and maximizes nutrition.

    Many people enjoy cooked vegetables - and now raw foodists can enjoy collards, kale, cabbage and other cruciferous vegetables safely too. Actually, raw, fermented vegetables are a great way for everyone to eat raw, and they also provide an abundance of necessary plant-based enzymes that ease digestion and populate your stomach with good bacteria. The fermentation process supports the growth of these good bacteria -- and once in your body, they prevent viral and fungal infections, boost immunity and increase the nutrient value of your food.

    Even better, raw, fermented vegetables are easy to make at home! It's as simple as mixing chopped veggies with any of our Body Ecology Starters and letting them ferment at room temperature for about a week.

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  29. #25
    Meh, bunny food.

    There is a reason cows don't rule the world.

    They have to eat 24/7 just to survive eating grasses.

    High nutrition meat FTW.

  30. #26
    Stupid article. They start by equating salad with lettuce, radish, and cucumber. That may be true in many restaurants that essentially serve what I call salad-shaped objects. But if that is true of your home-made salad, you aren't doing it right. I eat two big salads day. The salad I ate today for lunch contained lettuce. But it also contained seaweed, celery, carrot, raddichio (sp?), parsley, chard, amaranth, broccoli, broccoli sprouts, upland cress, and spinach. That is typical.

    Then they complain that it is dependent on fossil fuel. Not if you live in a southern climate and buy local produce. Or buy local in a northern climate and freeze it. But what do they suggest eating that ISN'T dependent on fossil fuel?

    Then they make nutritional statements based on the assumption that water is somehow a bad thing in food that dilutes nutritional value such that anything with water in it is somehow not worth eating. Really?

    Finally, they ignore the most important contribution to the diet from vegetables: the various phyto and micro nutrients, more of which are being discovered every week.

    I won't even comment on the stupidity of their half-baked environmental analysis.

    Sheesh.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  31. #27
    we've been adding a big splash of ACV to greens at the end of cooking.. kills that bitter taste.. adds tartness and one of the few ways I can actually get the ACV inside of me - still can't handle it in a turbo salad (like Acala mentioned)

    I throw all kinds of stuff in a bowl with lettuce (or spinach etc) .. to me, if it's got something green in it and is fork ready.. it's salad.
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

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  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    No, not necessarily. Cooking often increases the nutritional value of many foods.
    False. Not for veggies.

    ETA: To be clear, anything with chlorophyll in it is what I consider a veggie. Some things considered veggies are actually roots, like turnips and beets. Mushrooms are fungi, not veggies. I don't know for sure about those things, but anything with chlorophyll in it is certainly better raw. The more chlorophyll you ingest, the better.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 08-26-2015 at 04:09 AM.
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  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There are different opinions on that - cooking down veggies also helps us expend less energy digesting and so we can ingest more of the vegetable so in some cases depending on the nutrient loss it can actually be beneficial to cook veggies.
    Yes, I'm sure cooked veggies are quite easy to digest. So is charcoal, but I wouldn't recommend making that a staple.

    To be clear, I think all veggies are better raw. Some things considered veggies are actually roots, like turnips and beets.

    For sure, though, anything with chlorophyll in it is better raw. The more chlorophyll you ingest, the better.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 08-26-2015 at 04:07 AM.
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  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Meh, bunny food.

    There is a reason cows don't rule the world.

    They have to eat 24/7 just to survive eating grasses.

    High nutrition meat FTW.
    I would counter by saying that's definitely not the only reason cows don't rule the world, but I know your post was made in jest.
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