When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?

[Brian4Liberty]

When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE5doLAWJZ8

Quick summary of the Ron Paul Liberty Report video:

In the first two minutes, Ron says that he is neither for open borders or totally closed borders, and that he likes to look at it from an economic perspective, and that the US economy is bad. He then goes into the welfare state problem and welfare state mandates and incentives, and that nothing will be solved unless the economy gets better.

Ron later describes a potential ideal situation with a Bracero type arrangement (temporary labor, no citizenship). McDaniel's (who was Ron's immigration staff specialist) later states bluntly "you were not an open borders person".

Ron also criticizes e-verify, the futility of a bigger "wall" and birthright citizenship. He mentions the absurdity of Trump's plan to intercept the money that poor workers send to Mexico, and is not fond of demagogueing and scapegoating.

In essence, Ron's position has not changed one iota from his position in 2007:

Ron Paul: “I Believe In National Sovereignty”.
...
What is your view on legal immigration?

I think it depends on our economy. If we have a healthy economy, I think we could be very generous on work programs. People come in, fulfill their role and go back home.

I`m not worried about legal immigration. I think we would even have more if we had a healthy economy.

But in the meantime, we want to stop the illegals. And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq.

Is the economy healthy enough right now?

No. I don`t think so. I think the economy is going downhill. People are feeling pinched—in the middle, much more pinched than the government is willing to admit. Their standard of living is going down.

[puppetmaster]

As soon as it starts.....and it is welcomed by TPTB.

[thoughtomator]

40 million illegals ago

[tod evans]

Only when the immigrants move into your neighborhood.......

[Acala]

Immigrants are trying to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids!

[erowe1]

Easy. Under no circumstances is open immigration an invasion. Consider the open immigration any one of the United States has from any other. None of this crossing of state lines, no matter how much it happens, is an invasion.

[fisharmor]

I'm six minutes into this, is there any talk of invasions at all in this video, or is it just there to try to find a constitutional justification for clear federal overreach and disregard of the 10th amendment with respect to immigration?

[tod evans]

Easy. Under no circumstances is open immigration an invasion. Consider the open immigration any one of the United States has from any other. None of this crossing of state lines, no matter how much it happens, is an invasion.

The hell it isn't!

I want Ca. and Ill. to come and repatriate their natives!

[fisharmor]

I didn't know that stuff about exceptions to birthright citizenship...
Guys, I'm not sure posting Ron's videos is good for the campaign, since it underscores what we're missing........

[thoughtomator]

Here's some musical accompaniment for this thread.

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm six minutes into this, is there any talk of invasions at all in this video, or is it just there to try to find a constitutional justification for clear federal overreach and disregard of the 10th amendment with respect to immigration?

Congratulations on actually watching the video...

[DevilsAdvocate]

Easy. Under no circumstances is open immigration an invasion. Consider the open immigration any one of the United States has from any other. None of this crossing of state lines, no matter how much it happens, is an invasion.

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

What if government policy encouraged millions of socialists to immigrate to the United States and vote for socialist dictators? Oh wait.

[thoughtomator]

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

I've asked that same exact question of the open-borders fanatics, and they have absolutely no answer. They simply do not believe in self defense on any scale larger than the personal.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I've asked that same exact question of the open-borders fanatics, and they have absolutely no answer. They simply do not believe in self defense on any scale larger than the personal.

How could you expect them to believe in self defense of the nation when they don't even want you to have a gun for self defense?

[fisharmor]

I've asked that same exact question of the open-borders fanatics, and they have absolutely no answer. They simply do not believe in self defense on any scale larger than the personal.

Since when is two or more people a "self"?

Maybe we have no answers because your premises are absurd.

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

What if a giant space snail ejaculates all over us and we drown?
Woulda, coulda, and shoulda all mean
DIDN'T

Never happened, not gonna happen. We've been over this already so I'll be sure to watch out and point out when you are the one dispensing fantasy stories.

Besides, your impossible unicorn scenario doesn't take into account that sending armed soldiers over here still doesn't get them voter registration cards.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Never happened, not gonna happen. We've been over this already so I'll be sure to watch out and point out when you are the one dispensing fantasy stories.

Besides, your impossible unicorn scenario doesn't take into account that sending armed soldiers over here still doesn't get them voter registration cards.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Not gonna happen? Why not?? It's an easy way to conquer a borderless country without firing a shot, especially in the nuclear age. Are you saying the Chinese are stupid? They have quadruple our population and are constantly trying to figure out ways to cut down their numbers, one easy way to do that would be to ship people over here.

It's amazing how you say it's impossible to happen, when it's happening right before our eyes. But not with China, with Mexico. You simply call the idea absurd, well explain, why is it absurd? It's smart.

[thoughtomator]

Since when is two or more people a "self"?

Maybe we have no answers because your premises are absurd.

If saving myself means I have to save someone who is watching my back, that's a form of self-defense. If you're the kind of person who never had anyone's back and nobody ever had yours, it's going to be an alien concept.

[CaptainAmerica]

Its only considered invasion by people who are upset that the welfare is being dipped into.....

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

What if a giant space snail ejaculates all over us and we drown?
Woulda, coulda, and shoulda all mean
DIDN'T

Never happened, not gonna happen. We've been over this already so I'll be sure to watch out and point out when you are the one dispensing fantasy stories.

Besides, your impossible unicorn scenario doesn't take into account that sending armed soldiers over here still doesn't get them voter registration cards.

The point of the question is not whether or not it will happen. If it did happen, would you still be for open borders? More to the point, if there was an immigrant population that overwhelmingly supported bigger government, would you still be fine with them flooding the country? In the name of libertarianism, would you support a policy that would result in a far bigger government? There's no need to speculate as to whether or not that would happen; it's happening right now.

[LibertyEagle]

Its only considered invasion by people who are upset that the welfare is being dipped into.....

No, it's more than that. We used to be picky about who we let immigrate here and we also let them in in small enough numbers such that they could assimilate into our culture. Also, the people who were allowed here wanted to become Americans and yes, had to be self-sufficient or have someone sponsoring them; not to mention be tested to try to keep those carrying diseases out.

None of this is the case now.

[fr33]

No, it's more than that. We used to be picky about who we let immigrate here and we also let them in in small enough numbers such that they could assimilate into our culture.

We also used to be less picky about it than we are now. As a conservative, what narrative are you trying to conserve?

[thoughtomator]

We also used to be less picky about it than we are now. As a conservative, what narrative are you trying to conserve?

How can you be less picky than an open invitation to whomever wants to crawl over the border and poop out a kid that they will get fully subsidized first-world coverage for the birth and give the kid citizenship, to boot?

We don't even get to pick. They are picking themselves.

[LibertyEagle]

We also used to be less picky about it than we are now. As a conservative, what narrative are you trying to conserve?

I don't think so.

Narrative? Are you thinking founding principles? American culture? What?

[TheTexan]

What if a giant space snail ejaculates all over us and we drown?
Woulda, coulda, and shoulda all mean
DIDN'T[SIZE=4][SIZE=2]

Never happened, not gonna happen.

Kinda like anarchy.

Bam!

[William Tell]

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

What if government policy encouraged millions of socialists to immigrate to the United States and vote for socialist dictators? Oh wait.

All this^^^

But the open border folks simply don't care. Their love for open borders seems to come before common sense.

[Brian4Liberty]

So, one person actually watched the video?

[fr33]

How can you be less picky than an open invitation to whomever wants to crawl over the border and poop out a kid that they will get fully subsidized first-world coverage for the birth and give the kid citizenship, to boot?

We don't even get to pick. They are picking themselves.

I don't think so.

Narrative? Are you thinking founding principles? American culture? What?

There used to be a time when people came over here and paid a little bit of money and then they became citizens almost immediately instead of what we have today. Back then rich people didn't buy their way in like they do now. Dumb farmers from Germany came over here easily and settled the midwest. They didn't even speak the english language. Nowadays you have to wait in line for decades, while people like y'all bitch about law breakers instead of the ridiculous laws.

[timosman]

When Does Open Immigration Become An Invasion?

Never. Our glorious nation has an unlimited capacity for new immigrants and can accept as many people as we want. Pumping 1 million people into our country in a year is not a big deal. It has a great effect on our prosperous economy and has a very positive impact on deficits and wages. It actually helps us raise living standards of all hard working citizens as the immigrants usually make way more than the natives. The work ethic of immigrants can put natives to shame. After escaping terrible conditions in their home country these people will do anything for their new homeland, especially for the ruling class. I have never heard an immigrant complaining about the work conditions and, unlike many natives, demand fair treatment, living wage, work life balance and other crazy ideas which clearly have no place in the modern economy. We need to become as efficient as possible, work more hours and should not question authority. There are, unfortunately, some people who clearly do not see things for what they are. We should make sure we have enough spots reserved for them in the reeducation camps. Like, for example, this crazy lady:

[kcchiefs6465]

What if China started shipping soldiers over? Just marching them across the border? Not firing a shot, just marching into the country, and straight into the voting booth, electing Chinese governors and mayors and a Chinese president? They could conquer America without firing a shot.

What if we didn't vote to strip others of their rights?

America was conquered long ago if freedom is your criterion for determining if a country is or is not 'conquered.'

I've asked that same exact question of the open-borders fanatics, and they have absolutely no answer. They simply do not believe in self defense on any scale larger than the personal.

The question assumes a few things. That's more the reason why it's not responded to.

"What if they come and vote?"

The question is fallacious. You are assuming things to make your position seem more logical.

As Devil'sAdvocate said, "What if they elect [Chinese] governors?" Well what if we didn't have governors for them to elect? Oh nevermind that. 'We' just steer clear of the question as it is so concretely sound it cannot possibly be addressed.

How could you expect them to believe in self defense of the nation when they don't even want you to have a gun for self defense?

I advocate that everyone bare arms, if possible, actually. I am unequivocally in favor of self-defense. Like when a friend I went to school with shot and killed two of the three men who attempted to rob him. Nothing gives me more satisfaction than instant karma.