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Thread: Rand Paul Backers Still Believe He Can Stand Out

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Backers Still Believe He Can Stand Out

    Rand Paul Backers Still Believe He Can Stand Out
    SuperPACers, former staffers, hope for a tougher Paul who fights on foreign policy and civil liberties to stand out.
    By Brian Doherty | Aug. 20, 2015

    ...
    Ed Crane, co-founder and retired longtime chieftain of the Cato Institute, runs the Paul-supporting PurplePAC. With his libertarian movement background, he sees the best chances for Paul lie in being more consistently libertarian, and he says others in the campaign’s orbit are getting the same feeling. “The very fact that he was going after the NSA, skeptical of being the world’s policeman, that made him unique,” Crane says, and explains why he started off polling double digits.

    Paul should have used the first GOP candidate debate, Crane says, and all his earned media, to hit home that he is “the candidate who is pro free market, anti-crony capitalism and is skeptical of the efficacy of the U.S. being the world’s policemen, and is also concerned about civil liberties” unlike his opponents who all want “boots on the ground” in Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East.
    ...
    Matt Kibbe, formerly of FreedomWorks, is now working with a Paul SuperPAC called Concerned American Voters, focusing on get out the vote ground game in Iowa. He’s trying to keep his eye on the prize through the chaos of bad polling and waves of media trying to bury the Paul campaign prematurely.

    “Rand should stick to his strengths,” Kibbe says, “one of which is ground game and the second of which is being the substantive, disruptive policy guy who has actually proposed radical tax reform, led on criminal justice reform and stands out from crowd on foreign policy and civil liberties, own the libertarian aspects of who he is.”

    If he can do that and “stays long enough to cull the herd and get focused,” things could still work out fine when actual votes are cast, Kibbe believes.
    ...
    Bruce Fein, a former Reagan administration Justice Department lawyer and former Ron Paul advisor who helped craft a Rand Paul lawsuit against the NSA, says he is in negotiations for a big role in PurplePAC moving forward. He hopes ultimately he can help them “articulate more forcefully what Rand ought to be doing and is not doing, giving him downfield blocking” for a more radically anti-intervention and pro-civil liberties campaign.

    Despite being best known as a conservative movement legal scholar, Fein was most passionate talking about foreign policy: he stressed that “where Rand should be distinguishing himself head and shoulders above all the others is that we don’t go abroad in search of monsters to destroy, you cannot take states whose political culture is in the Pleistocene age and make them democracies, and that defense should be focused on protecting the U.S. from attack, deterrence” and not “wasting money and lives needlessly. We do the equivalent of sticking a bayonet into a hornets' nest and wonder why the hornets come back.”

    Someone with as impeccable a history of being tough on America’s enemies as President Eisenhower, Fein says, warned us about the military industrial complex who “pursue needless gratuitous wars for profit” and he thinks Paul can successfully call on that tradition in the GOP now.
    ...
    All agree that Trump is stealing some of the “outsider” vibe that should have been Paul’s to claim, despite being a sitting senator. Darling sees value in Trump’s radically anti-establishment position against the notion of “political families akin to royalty” like the Clintons and Bushes. Trump also shows, Darling says, that many Republican voters are very eager to oppose current Republican political leadership, an area that Paul is also well equipped to grab, standing alone on issues like NSA spying.

    Fein thinks Trump’s brashness is something Paul might want to emulate, “don’t be recessive, be dominant,” don’t be afraid to use adjectives--“you can reasonably describe our foreign policy as utter idiocy, costing trillions and killing needlessly, and it has to be said that way” not disguised under such “Georgetown seminar” terms as “’conservative realism.’ Permanent war and limited government are antonyms” and Paul needs to sharply make that case.

    “The upside to Trump,” says Kibbe, "is that he demonstrates the complete distrust and disgust that voters have with the standard two party duopoly and that dynamic should be Rand’s playing field. People are genuinely eager to throw everyone out, and if he’s good enough Rand can turn that into a libertarian policy mandate.”
    ...
    All see no reason to believe the Paul campaign is over; all agreed aspects of both the campaign and polling and fundraising were frustrating, especially considering the vital stakes for libertarian ideas at stake. Darling, who worked for Paul, is sure that Paul is “not the kind of guy to walk away from a fight. He stood up at the debates nose to nose with the two bullies, Christie and Trump, and anyone who thinks he will pull out, no way, they don’t know the guy. He’s not a quitter.”
    ...
    More: http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/20/ra...lieve-he-can-s
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Well...what he should have done and what he did are 2 different stories. (sitting here in my Rand Paul campaign shirt) The reason Ron won so many hearts and minds is because he said what he believed early and often.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    Well...what he should have done and what he did are 2 different stories. (sitting here in my Rand Paul campaign shirt) The reason Ron won so many hearts and minds is because he said what he believed early and often.
    I'm of the opinion that Randal said a whole helluva a lot about what he believed early and often.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    All agree that Trump is stealing some of the “outsider” vibe that should have been Paul’s to claim, despite being a sitting senator. Darling sees value in Trump’s radically anti-establishment position against the notion of “political families akin to royalty” like the Clintons and Bushes. Trump also shows, Darling says, that many Republican voters are very eager to oppose current Republican political leadership, an area that Paul is also well equipped to grab, standing alone on issues like NSA spying.

    Fein thinks Trump’s brashness is something Paul might want to emulate, “don’t be recessive, be dominant,” don’t be afraid to use adjectives--“you can reasonably describe our foreign policy as utter idiocy, costing trillions and killing needlessly, and it has to be said that way” not disguised under such “Georgetown seminar” terms as “’conservative realism.’ Permanent war and limited government are antonyms” and Paul needs to sharply make that case.

    “The upside to Trump,” says Kibbe, "is that he demonstrates the complete distrust and disgust that voters have with the standard two party duopoly and that dynamic should be Rand’s playing field. People are genuinely eager to throw everyone out, and if he’s good enough Rand can turn that into a libertarian policy mandate.”
    It would be great to know exactly which so called adviser suggested that Rand attack Trump at the last debate. Then, that person could be fired. Unless it is a member of the Paul family in which case they might be promoted. Most of the people supporting Trump would have supported Rand if there was no trump. And by attacking their guy, they make it personal. Rand couldn't have attacked anyone else?

    And by the way, wouldn't it be great if Rand could stop by his forum once in awhile and host a question and answer thread? This question could be posed directly. Has he ever mingled with the commoners here? If not why not?

    And speaking of question and answer sessions I notice that either Rand has never done a Reddit "Ask Me Anything" or it's not turning up in a search- but a lot of requests for him are. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/search...elevance&t=all

    Obama has done an AMA, Patrick Stewart did one today, Gary Johnson does one every 6 months or so, it's free publicity and a great chance to get his message out. Are Rand's people unaware of this great platform? And if so, what does that say about their competence?

    Here's the board- try searching for someone that you'd like to question and they'll probably turn up.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA
    Rand lied about Crimea and Iran
    " US Must Take Strong Action Against Putin's Aggression" -Rand
    “I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot, I’m not a libertarian. I’m a libertarian Republican. I’m a constitutional conservative”-Rand Paul
    WARNING: mods/admins are editing sigs without notice

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    It would be great to know exactly which so called adviser suggested that Rand attack Trump at the last debate. Then, that person could be fired. Unless it is a member of the Paul family in which case they might be promoted. Most of the people supporting Trump would have supported Rand if there was no trump. And by attacking their guy, they make it personal. Rand couldn't have attacked anyone else?
    So far, that's about the only way anyone has noticed how much he stands out.

    Furthermore, when a WWE 'wrestler' gets insulted, his fans might be offended. But when he gets his ass kicked, whichever 'wrestler' did it becomes their new favorite. That's the kind of person we're talking about.

    Only people who support someone on principle is likely to hold such a grudge. That's not who we're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  7. #6
    All of the backers have great ideas on things Rand needs to focus on and highlight to get him back on top. One problem! The candidate said in a interview that it's unlikely he's going to change his strategy.

    Asked if he will change tactics to counter his faltering poll numbers when he is back on the campaign trail next week, he doesn't see a need to.

    "I think I do exactly the same thing I've been doing," he said.

    Next week, that will mean a West Coast swing that will take him to Alaska and other Western states where his campaign believes his message resonates. http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pres...tional-n412451

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    It would be great to know exactly which so called adviser suggested that Rand attack Trump at the last debate. Then, that person could be fired. Unless it is a member of the Paul family in which case they might be promoted. Most of the people supporting Trump would have supported Rand if there was no trump. And by attacking their guy, they make it personal. Rand couldn't have attacked anyone else?

    And by the way, wouldn't it be great if Rand could stop by his forum once in awhile and host a question and answer thread? This question could be posed directly. Has he ever mingled with the commoners here? If not why not?

    And speaking of question and answer sessions I notice that either Rand has never done a Reddit "Ask Me Anything" or it's not turning up in a search- but a lot of requests for him are. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/search...elevance&t=all

    Obama has done an AMA, Patrick Stewart did one today, Gary Johnson does one every 6 months or so, it's free publicity and a great chance to get his message out. Are Rand's people unaware of this great platform? And if so, what does that say about their competence?

    Here's the board- try searching for someone that you'd like to question and they'll probably turn up.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA


    The rumor is that Rand went against advice for the debate, he said in an interview afterward that he was going to do it if it looked like they were going to try and marginalize him.

    There are certain FEC rules about campaigns coordinating with grassroots, there are ways it can be done, but I know Ron never posted here or the DP. He did his AMA after the campaign was over and I believe after the 1-year gag order after he left Congress. I read somewhere that Ron didn't ever allow himself to be alone with a female staffer, for being extra cautious of a setup.

  9. #8
    FOX had him on every other day, until a month or so ago. He needs to make some newsworthy statements to get back in their good graces. Maybe he should be heading up the DUMP BOEHNER campaign.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    It would be great to know exactly which so called adviser suggested that Rand attack Trump at the last debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    The rumor is that Rand went against advice for the debate, he said in an interview afterward that he was going to do it if it looked like they were going to try and marginalize him.
    It seems that Rand calls his own shots.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    ", that many Republican voters are very eager to oppose current Republican political leadership, an area that Paul is also well equipped to grab, standing alone on issues like NSA spying."

    Not when the millstone of Mitch McConnell is tied around Rand's neck. You can't attack the GOP leadership in Washington without attacking him and Rand isn't going to do that.

  13. #11
    I think I see a silver lining. Just work with me. Rand has a campaign for raging against the political machine right? He is not waging a full blown war against the Establishment which is very calculative. The Establishment faithful is dying and Rand is winning by not winning right this sec. Hopefully I have not lost y'all yet.

    Bush is taking water faster than Titanic, looking unpresidential like, and is breaking donors of the corrupt by imploding. (Grudgingly thanks to Trump) Walker who is usually next in blood line has been a disaster. Jeb protege Rubio is charismatic but support for an inexperienced and also undefined individual the Establishment will not back him, mark my words. Who will they depend on? Rand! Oh the horror for them while Ron is chuckling in the background.

    Rand has not burned that bridge for a reason. The Establishment hates to loose and their hand is almost forced to unite behind an likely choice . It may not show up until around October-November as Establishment candidates fall further. We are winning. Trump will either pull out like usual outsider candidates do (call them anti establishment flavors of the month) or Trump will implode by January. Rand's message will resonate and it will change the platform.

    Ted Cruz will sink when the Trump boat departs back to Reality TV. No matter Sachs money Cruz brings in, it will not be enough. Cruz will have no friends. Also the flavor of the month candidates like Dr. Carson and Carly will end just like history has proven time and time again.

    Be patient, this is the long game that is not for the weak in faith. Ron is not stupid and I guarantee that Rand is following his dad's advice. The next debate will be interesting as Rand will be the presidential looking candidate as the others will look unhinged. Rand threw the first snowball for a reason in the last debate to make a snow bolder. Rand sacrificed a pawn while the rest sacrificed a rook and now it is time to knock out their queen. Game Theory is about being not one or two steps ahead in thought but a rather three or four steps ahead to be able to adapt. Rand is changing other candidates plans and ultimately the race in front of our eyes!


    God bless,
    LifeLibertyPursuit

  14. #12
    Optimistic post...but let's be realistic. Whatever you say of Bush, both he and Trump have deep pockets. Folks like Carson or Fiorina may not have as much cash, but they'll easily be propped up considerable, calmer alternatives to the bombastic Trump. The Establishment- GOP, at least- may hate to lose, but that's because their party as a whole is awful, if the 2016 candidate slate is any indication.

  15. #13
    I think he should just go back to being himself. Walking the line pretending to be a neocon seemed like a good strategy at the time. I thought it would work. It didn't. Go back to talking about government overreach, civil liberties, the economy and non-intervention. Probably won't be winning issues this time, but Ron was gaining steam. They will be important soon enough.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think he should just go back to being himself. Walking the line pretending to be a neocon seemed like a good strategy at the time. I thought it would work. It didn't. Go back to talking about government overreach, civil liberties, the economy and non-intervention. Probably won't be winning issues this time, but Ron was gaining steam. They will be important soon enough.
    Gained steam? Paul was still marginalized during the debates, didn't really 'win' Iowa until the very end, had his delegates switched, had to hold his own convention, had delegates assaulted...when did he gain any semblance of steam?



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