I never liked the idea of penalizing businesses for hiring people that are already here. Stop them at the border, do not encourage legal immigration and let ICE or local enforcement deal with illegals.Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty
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Bull crap. Seriously, leave already.
No I don't. Neither will Ron Paul.
Letting ICE and local enforcement "deal with illegals" (there's that word again) = penalizing business for hiring people that are already here.
You're either for it or you're against it. Make up your mind.
I have never been a huge fan of border fences, the only thing that can be said about them is that they are a first line of defense against bad elements.
But in addition, that would apply just as much to airports and seaports. Then you have the problem of overstaying visas. None of that can be addressed by a border fence. Establishment types have been talking border fence forever, but it's a bit of a red herring at this point.
The real leverage and root problem would be to address illegal hiring, and illegal welfare state benefits. That's where the real problem lies. Eliminate incentives.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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Bingo. Especially about hiring. And everybody who studies this issue comes to that same conclusion.
If you want to be an immigration hard liner, it requires massive nationwide central managing of all employers and employees. We all (not just immigrants) have to have government issued papers with unique identification numbers proving that we're permitted by the government to work here. And they get to know who we are, where we work, how much we earn, and where we put our money. Those who take this seriously have long known that and unabashedly support it.
Exactly.
I have been more vocal here than anyone on that which was due to John Kaisch's national new hires database that was instituted as part of the "1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity" (aka the welfare reform act). I would rather lose the ability to catch illegals than allow that level of government tracking.
There will always be illegals here. I have less of a problem with the ones working than those receiving benefits. My biggest grievance is we are encouraging them to come here legally, doing nothing to secure the invasion at the border and allowing illegals to receive benefits.
I have no problem with a state ID card for government benefits only issued to state citizens. No ID card, no eligibility to vote or receive government benefits.
* See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
* Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.
It's not fair that you group Sessions with Graham and Cotton. What's your problem with Sessions' immigration view? I think this was a smart move for trump, though not sure rand needed to make this move
Senator Jeff Sessions consulting ...https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positio...gration-reform
Immigration Reform That Will Make America Great Again
Donald Trump For President
2015.08.16
he three core principles of Donald J. Trump's immigration plan
When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.
Specifics in linked position paper.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...america-needs/
Jeff Sessions: Donald Trump’s Immigration Policy Is ‘Exactly the Plan America Needs’
by Matthew Boyle
Breitbart
16 Aug 2015
"Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), the intellectual leader of the conservative movement and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee on Immigration and the National Interest, issued a statement on Sunday afternoon praising 2016 Republican frontrunner Donald Trump’s immigration policy plan for America.
"“This is exactly the plan America needs,” Sessions said in response to Trump’s plan. “Not only would the plan outlined in this paper work, but more quickly than many realize.
"“Most importantly, this plan reestablishes the principle that American’s immigration laws should serve the interests of its own citizens.
"“For too long, ‘immigration reform’ plans in Washington have served the special interests at the expense of working Americans. By contrast, this plan puts the needs of working Americans foremost, and develops an effective strategy for improving their wages and job prospects.
"“Crucially, this plan includes an emphasis on lifting struggling minority communities, including our immigrant communities, out of poverty — by preventing corporations from bringing in new workers from overseas to replace them and drive down wages.
"“When the labor market is oversupplied, it tilts the balance of power away form workers and towards employers. In combination with a smart, fair trade policy this proposal would reinvigorate the middle class.
"“Polling shows this plan will appeal broadly to all segments of the electorate: prioritizing the just demands of loyal, everyday Americans who have been shunned by a governing elite.”
"Trump’s plan is designed to put American workers first, and calls for halting of green cards until Americans are employed again—and pushes for a significant slowdown in the issuance of donor-class-craved H-1B visas, which have been used by many companies like Disney and Southern California Edison among others to replace Americans with cheaper, foreign workers.
"Trump consulted Sessions in putting together the plan, and now that he has the support of such an influential lawmaker who’s the key leader in Congress on this issue, it’s unlikely that anyone will ever be able to legitimately criticize him for lack of substance again."
See link for full article.
Please remain on topic, William Tell.
William Tell, this thread is for a discussion of Trump's just posted position on Immigration Reform. It has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Please remain on topic. Why don't you read the position statement and comment on Trump's plan for immigration reform.
Just a few years ago he told Bill O'Reilly that he supported a path to citizenship for all those who are here illegally. You're being hoodwinked. Donald Trump only cares about promoting himself.
Good, then we can deport all the illegals there to defend the oil. It will be unbelievable.
* See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
* Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.
Here's an on topic post: I reject Trump's police state.
Points 2 & 3 are meaningless in light of the overarching, Constitution destroying, sovereignty surrendering provisions of things like NAFTA, WTO, and worst of all now TPP.
So really the only point is "build a wall". Which can be circumvented by a ladder or a tunnel and does nothing more than moderately bump up the cost of illegally immigrating. More evidence that his appeal is an emotional appeal to people who are simply angry and want someone they perceive as a "thug" who will go into the white house and become a no-holds barred dictator. Americans are practically begging for fascism.
As Ron Paul said, a "strongman", like Putin, Napolean or Hugo Chavez.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
Why should I believe he would follow through?
Did you read the position paper or just the excerpt I posted?
We know he didn't like Romney's 'mean-spirited' plan. We know he liked how the Democrats were 'kind'.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz3j1qZtM66“He had a crazy policy of self deportation which was maniacal,” Trump told the conservative website NewsMax. “It sounded as bad as it was, and he lost all of the Latino vote. He lost the Asian vote. He lost everybody who is inspired to come into this country.”
Running to the right of his rivals in the Republican primary, Romney endorsed a policy of self-deportation, where illegal immigrants would leave the United States voluntarily. Obama won over two-thirds of the Asian vote and the Hispanic vote, according to exit polls.
“Republicans didn’t have anything going for them with respect to Latinos and with respect to Asians,” the real estate mogul-turned-reality TV star said.
“The Democrats didn’t have a policy for dealing with illegal immigrants, but what they did have going for them is they weren’t mean-spirited about it,” Trump added. “They didn’t know what the policy was, but what they were is they were kind.”
It is a great plan, far superior and pro-American citizen compared to Rand who want to encourage legal immigration and favors foreign workers over Americans by proposing increases to the H-1B visa program which puts Rand in the same category as Cruz, Jeb, Rubio, etc.
The best part.
Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
Requirement to hire American workers first. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need to companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
* See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
* Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.
I was neg repped by David Sadler by saying that Trump supports a police state. David, how does one enforce what was described in the OP?
Last edited by Sola_Fide; 08-16-2015 at 08:17 PM.
Trump's police state:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5959786
Why don't you read the position paper to find out.
Trump is a police state tyrant:
Triple the number of ICE officers. As the President of the ICE Officers’ Council explained in Congressional testimony: “Only approximately 5,000 officers and agents within ICE perform the lion’s share of ICE’s immigration mission…Compare that to the Los Angeles Police Department at approximately 10,000 officers. Approximately 5,000 officers in ICE cover 50 states, Puerto Rico and Guam, and are attempting to enforce immigration law against 11 million illegal aliens already in the interior of the United States. Since 9-11, the U.S. Border Patrol has tripled in size, while ICE’s immigration enforcement arm, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), has remained at relatively the same size.” This will be funded by accepting the recommendation of the Inspector General for Tax Administration and eliminating tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.
Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans.
Mandatory return of all criminal aliens. The Obama Administration has released 76,000 aliens from its custody with criminal convictions since 2013 alone. All criminal aliens must be returned to their home countries, a process which can be aided by canceling any visas to foreign countries which will not accept their own criminals, and making it a separate and additional crime to commit an offense while here illegally.
Detention—not catch-and-release. Illegal aliens apprehended crossing the border must be detained until they are sent home, no more catch-and-release.
Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.
Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence. This is a threat to national security. Individuals who refuse to leave at the time their visa expires should be subject to criminal penalties; this will also help give local jurisdictions the power to hold visa overstays until federal authorities arrive. Completion of a visa tracking system – required by law but blocked by lobbyists – will be necessary as well.
Cooperate with local gang task forces. ICE officers should accompany local police departments conducting raids of violent street gangs like MS-13 and the 18th street gang, which have terrorized the country. All illegal aliens in gangs should be apprehended and deported. Again, quoting Chris Crane: “ICE Officers and Agents are forced to apply the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Directive, not to children in schools, but to adult inmates in jails. If an illegal-alien inmate simply claims eligibility, ICE is forced to release the alien back into the community. This includes serious criminals who have committed felonies, who have assaulted officers, and who prey on children…ICE officers should be required to place detainers on every illegal alien they encounter in jails and prisons, since these aliens not only violated immigration laws, but then went on to engage in activities that led to their arrest by police; ICE officers should be required to issue Notices to Appear to all illegal aliens with criminal convictions, DUI convictions, or a gang affiliation; ICE should be working with any state or local drug or gang task force that asks for such assistance.”
William Tell, Why don't you comment on the position paper? Of course, you will have to read it first.
I could read my toilet paper after I used it, but I choose not to.
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