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Thread: Non-addictive Natural Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depression – Leave Rx Drugs Be

  1. #1

    Non-addictive Natural Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depression – Leave Rx Drugs Be

    Non-addictive Natural Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depression – Leave Rx Drugs Behind

    Posted by JB Bardot



    Kratom is a tree native to Southeast Asia that is widely known as ‘nature’s vicodin’. The leaves of the tree can be chewed, made into a tea, or dried and added to capsules that cure anxiety, depression, migraines and many types of chronic pain. The plant acts as both a mild sedative when used sparingly; and in large doses, as a stimulant. It can also be used to wean patients off opiate addictions such as heroin and morphine. The plant is from the same family as the coffee tree, and Thai people have used Kratom leaves as a form of medicine for centuries to treat conditions such as diarrhea, nervousness and opiate withdrawal. Many long-term users of Kratom claim that it is more effective at managing pain than many powerful painkillers such as morphine and vicodin, and is far less addictive than chemical narcotics. The DEA has placed Kratom onto their Drugs and Chemicals of Concern list in the past, and it is illegal in Australia, Thailand, Malaysia and Burma. It is available over-the-counter in powder form, dried leaves, capsules and as an extract, and there have been no reported cases of overdose or serious side-effects.

    History of Kratom

    The first documented cases about Kratom comes from the early 19th century after a Dutch Botanist named Pieter Korthals commented on how the leaves of the tree reminded him of a Bishops mitre and named the tree Mitragyna. There is not much evidence available on the use of Kratom before Europe’s colonisation of Asia, but it is generally believed that Asian people have used this herb for hundreds of years. Farmworkers would often chew the leaves as a pick me up in the morning in the same way as many people now rely on coffee. In 1943, the Thai government passed a new law banning the use of kratom citing it as a dangerous drug, although many people believe the move was to protect the government’s investment in the booming opiate business. Despite the ban, kratom use continues in Thailand even though the government imposes strong penalties on those caught with the herb.

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #2
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ncy-rooms?lite

    Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms

    When a patient showed up in a West Coast emergency room early this month suffering withdrawal from something he called "kratom," the psychiatrist on duty was forced to scramble for information. But when the doctor looked it up, she found that the opiate-like leaf from Southeast Asia is well known in the worlds of alternative medicine and the drug culture.

    What the doctor, who asked not to be named, found in an Internet search were Web pages set up by dozens of companies selling kratom leaf and touting it as a way to combat fatigue, pain and depression — even as an antidote to heroin addiction.

    But in addition to its possible medicinal uses, kratom is beginning to show up in U.S. emergency rooms, with doctors saying they are dealing with people sick from taking it — especially teens who try it to get high.

    "Every month somebody is trying to get a new 'safe high'," said Frank LoVecchio, medical director of the Banner Good Samaritan Poison and Drug Information Center in Phoenix, Ariz. "(Kratom) is definitely not safe."

    Estimating usage of the drug is impossible, but emergency events involving kratom appear to be increasing, he said. In 2005, only two incidents were reported by poison control centers nationwide. But Banner’s center dealt with six emergencies involving kratom in 2011, he said.

    As with many herbal and chemical products on the market, science and law enforcement are playing catch-up. Little research has been done to determine the risks of taking kratom, so it remains legal and unregulated in the United States.

    The leaf, which is indigenous to Southeast Asia, has been around for thousands of years, and proponents argue that it is safe and effective for many maladies, while having fewer side effects and being less addictive than pharmaceutical alternatives, such as oxycodone. In small doses, they say, kratom provides an energy boost — the plant is in the coffee family — and in larger doses it creates a mellow, sedating effect, acting on the opioid receptors.

    "Kratom makes people feel pain free, strong, active and optimistic," according to the Website Kratom.com. It has multiple functions, said the site, which sells kratom leaves, powder and extracts from Thailand — "as a strong and reliable herbal painkiller, to relieve depression and as a social and professional enhancer to intensify communicational skills and induce higher motivation."

    Just as its safety has not been well studied, the drug has no scientifically established medical uses — though it has many enthusiastic adherents who swear by it. Testimonials in support of its ability to relieve chronic pain, depression, diabetes and other maladies surface in droves whenever kratom makes the news, as witnessed in the comments following this blog published in the Phoenix New Times in August 2011.

    But even promoters warn that daily use of kratom can lead to dependence and nasty side effects.

    “Long-term daily high dose kratom consumption is also reported to induce nervousness, sleeplessness, loss of libido, constipation and the darkening of skin complexion,” Kratom.com says in its "dangerous effects" section.


    Although there have been no fatalities from kratom, "The known risks and dangers of Kratom overdoses include hallucinations, delusions, listlessness, tremors, aggression, constipation and nausea," the site said.

    The emergency room psychiatrist said the patient who recently came in reported using kratom several times a day, every day, "because he discovered that if he stopped it he started getting withdrawal." The doctor said the man's symptoms appeared "identical to heroin withdrawal."

    Upon arrival, the patient was suffering "severe depression and anxiety and emerging opiate withdrawal symptoms," including chills, aching muscles and gooseflesh, the psychiatrist said. The patient was treated to ease withdrawal symptoms and then hospitalized, according to the doctor.
    "When we see people who take this, they sometimes get respiratory depression," said LoVecchio, similar to the effect of opiates like heroin. "What’s odd is that some of them get really, really agitated, a little combative, (with) nausea and vomiting. They usually get medication for nausea and Valium to ease the paranoia," before being sent home.

    He said other users, such as recovered heroin addicts, report that the symptoms are less pronounced, probably because they have built up a tolerance to opiates.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-14-2015 at 01:22 AM.

  4. #3
    Overdoses from Kratom: 0



    It should be studied more, but it appears that it may in fact be a safe alternative to other types of pain medications and anti-depressants.

    How much are the people who end up in the ER taking? What is their method of ingestion? Are they mixing it with alcohol or other drugs?

    It could be that people using it in reasonable amounts won't see too many of the side effects compared to people who use copious amounts.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    The site I trust to not put a spin on "drugs" is Erowid.

    However like any site that's honest about such things the feds surely monitor it....


    https://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

    EFFECTS LIST #
    POSITIVE
    Simultaneous stimulation & sedation
    Feelings of empathy
    Feelings of euphoria
    Aphrodisiac qualities for some people
    Vivid waking dreams
    Useful with physical labor
    Low doses can result in a lasting "glow" in some people, feeling better than normal the next day
    Increases sociability and talkativeness
    NEUTRAL
    Relatively short duration
    Change in ability to focus eyes
    Analgesia
    NEGATIVE
    Very bitter taste
    Dizziness, nausea and/or vomiting at higher doses
    Mild depression during and/or after
    Increase in (perceived) body temperature. (feel hot and sweaty)
    Hangover similar to alcohol, including headaches and sometimes nausea (at higher doses)
    Desire to repeat experience more frequently than intended, can lead to addiction
    Tolerance building quickly after a few days in a row of repeated use, tolerance to effects reduces with a one to three days of abstinence

  6. #5

  7. #6
    The title says "Non-Addictive." So once again, DonnaY posts inaccurate information.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The title says "Non-Addictive." So once again, DonnaY posts inaccurate information.
    Given my reading at Erowid I'd not classify this plant as addictive.

    No first hand experience though......

  9. #8
    At the grow I work at here in Denver one of my good friends/co-workers takes a handful of these everyday and swears by them.

    But he refuses to pick any up for us because he swears it's as addicting as opiates (which he went to rehab for a few years back) and by his own account he cannot stop taking them if he tried so while it's certainly a nice, natural, stimulant I can say from his first handed, heavy, experience of using these that they are absolutely addicting and you'll be dropping $30 on them a day before you know it...

    Do not believe ANYONE who tells you these aren't addictive because I see it first hand with him that they are VERY addictive and the reason he won't pick any up for us is because everyone he's gotten on to them has also become addicted. The biggest problem with trying to quit taking them is you'll fall into a huge depression during the withdraws (his claim, not mine) and your body will feel like $#@! until your system has cleansed itself of it.

    You've been warned.
    Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 08-14-2015 at 06:40 PM.
    It's just an opinion... man...



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  11. #9
    Self-treatment of opioid withdrawal using kratom (Mitragynia speciosa korth)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670991/
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  12. #10
    So we demonize weed and Kratom but Oxycontin gets the green light by the all powerful FDA. SMDH.

    FDA Approves Addictive Painkiller Oxycontin For Children
    Drug has developed notorious reputation for creating national abuse epidemic

    by Paul Joseph Watson | August 15, 2015

    The Food and Drug Administration has approved the highly addictive and dangerous drug Oxycontin for children as young as 11 despite the fact that overdoses involving prescription painkillers now represent a national epidemic, with 17,000 Americans dying every year.

    The approval was given by the FDA after a study by Purdue Pharma of Stamford, Connecticut, the same company that manufactures the drug, “supported a new pediatric indication for OxyContin in patients 11 to 16 years old,” according to the federal agency.

    The fact that the drug was approved for children on the basis of a study by the same company that stands to financially profit from the decision represents a flagrant conflict of interest. In 2013, Purdue Pharma had to pay $4 million to settle with a county in Kentucky for “damages the community suffered after the company marketed OxyContin as a safer alternative to other pain medicine,” leading to the drug being dubbed “hillbilly heroin.”

    The Food and Drug Administration has approved the highly addictive and dangerous drug Oxycontin for children as young as 11 despite the fact that overdoses involving prescription painkillers now represent a national epidemic, with 17,000 Americans dying every year.

    The approval was given by the FDA after a study by Purdue Pharma of Stamford, Connecticut, the same company that manufactures the drug, “supported a new pediatric indication for OxyContin in patients 11 to 16 years old,” according to the federal agency.

    The fact that the drug was approved for children on the basis of a study by the same company that stands to financially profit from the decision represents a flagrant conflict of interest. In 2013, Purdue Pharma had to pay $4 million to settle with a county in Kentucky for “damages the community suffered after the company marketed OxyContin as a safer alternative to other pain medicine,” leading to the drug being dubbed “hillbilly heroin.”

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  13. #11
    What's killing people who consume Oxycontin isn't the opioid it's the damn Tylenol....

  14. #12
    I'm not demonizing anything i'm simply pointing out that what you posted is bull$#@! and I know it from first hand experience.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I'm not demonizing anything i'm simply pointing out that what you posted is bull$#@! and I know it from first hand experience.
    My comments were not directed towards you, but to the establishment cronies who are demonizing it. Yet, it is A-okay to push Oxycontin on kids--why, because Big pHARMa has friends in government. Now I call bull$#@! on that. You can take it however way you want.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #14
    Oxycontin sales are restricted- even to kids. You need approval from a doctor to buy it (or hit the black market). Kratom has no such restrictions (in this country- some countries do restrict its sale and use). Both are addictive.

    You make it sound like they will be handing out Oxy like candy on street corners to all the children. Actually there are supposed to be strict limits on its use.

    http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/NewsEvents/ucm456973.htm

    In adults, OxyContin is approved for the management of pain that is severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment. In the U.S., extended-release opioids are used to manage chronic pain in adults; from low back pain to osteoarthritis to cancer-related pain.

    FDA recently approved the use of OxyContin in certain pediatric patients 11 years and older. Similar to adults, OxyContin is approved for use in these patients to manage pain severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment for which alternative treatment options are inadequate.

    The major difference is that all pediatric patients that are considered for pain management with OxyContin should already have been treated with an opioid pain medicine. This way, their health care providers know that these pediatric patients can be treated safely with OxyContin.

    What information did FDA need to support the approval of OxyContin for pediatric patients?

    There's not a lot of opioid use in children, so when we planned this pediatric program for OxyContin, we had to carefully identify how these drugs were being used and also what information would be useful for prescribers.

    But before I get into the program, I’ll back up a step and mention the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act (BPCA) of 2002. Among other provisions, this Act provides incentives to drug companies that study medications in pediatric patients. Under BPCA, we issued a Pediatric Written Request to ask the makers of OxyContin to study oxycodone and OxyContin in pediatric patients.

    One of these studies evaluated the safety of OxyContin and its pharmacokinetic profile - briefly, how the drug moves through the body - in pediatric patients likely to receive OxyContin from their doctors. Pediatric patients don’t usually have the same kind of chronic pain conditions as adults, so patients in the study were prescribed OxyContin in situations where they were expected to require pain management with an opioid for many weeks - for example, after extensive trauma, or after major spinal surgery or other types of major surgery to correct of birth defects.

    The studies supported the addition of a pediatric indication to the OxyContin label for patients 11 to 16 years old, and provided the much-needed data to health care providers.The new study data and resulting pediatric indication for OxyContin give doctors more specific information on how to safely manage pain in their pediatric patients following these types of surgery or traumas.
    Are there any other opioids approved for pediatric uses?

    There are not many extended-release, long-acting products specifically approved for pediatric use. Duragesic (fentanyl) and OxyContin are the only extended-release opioid products with FDA-approved labeling regarding pediatric use. There are also some immediate-release opioid medicines that have some pediatric information in their labels.

    What are the dangers of extended-release opioids and when should these powerful drugs be used in children?

    We are always concerned about the safety of our children, particularly when they are ill and require medications and when they are in pain. OxyContin is not intended to be the first opioid drug used in pediatric patients, but the data show that changing from another opioid drug to OxyContin is safe if done properly.

    Children are not treated with opioids very often and usually it's only for a limited period of time with close supervision by health care professionals. In pediatric patients who require opioid treatment to manage pain, extended-release opioids may be a useful alternative because they are taken only once or twice per day rather than every 4 to 6 hours.

    Fewer daily doses may free patients for physical therapy appointments, allow them to go home from the hospital sooner, and may help them to sleep through the night without waking up from pain. So from that perspective it's very useful.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-16-2015 at 07:35 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    At the grow I work at here in Denver one of my good friends/co-workers takes a handful of these everyday and swears by them.
    I’m curious if kratom is competing with the newly established “grow” businesses in CO.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I'm not demonizing anything i'm simply pointing out that what you posted is bull$#@! and I know it from first hand experience.
    I'd consider your "friend" to be 2nd hand experience. I do agree that anyone with an addictive nature should be wary of this plant. It is a potent herb. For me the “addiction” is as bad as my coffee addiction. I give up both 4 times a year during fasts.

    But he refuses to pick any up for us because he swears it's as addicting as opiates (which he went to rehab for a few years back)
    People with a history of opiate addiction should stay away from it, but which one does he prefer for his health? I do know people who are basically functional drunks who have switched their addiction for alcohol (and other things) to an addiction for kratom and they are happier. The kratom relieves their anxiety without the intoxication.

    and by his own account he cannot stop taking them if he tried so while it's certainly a nice, natural, stimulant
    Some people are the same way with coffee, alcohol, marijuana, chapstick, etc.

    these that they are absolutely addicting and you'll be dropping $30 on them a day before you know it...
    Where is your friend buying from? Most websites sell it for $10 or less an ounce (some places sell for more, others sell for a lot less). Unless your friend is ingesting over 80 grams a day (an insane amount) there is no way he is spending that much. A heavy user (from what I've read) is someone who ingest 15 to 25 grams a day.
    Last edited by RJB; 08-16-2015 at 07:31 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Oxycontin sales are restricted- even to kids. You need approval from a doctor to buy it (or hit the black market). Kratom has no such restrictions (in this country- some countries do restrict its sale and use). Both are addictive.
    That's impossible that they get it from the black market. There are laws against that.



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  20. #17
    The reason these threads get heated is there are three camps.

    1. The libertarians who are very wary of any negative report about an herb for fear of dangerous "War on Drugs" response from the government.

    2. The libertarians who know a loved one who had a bad experience with certain material and want to warn others. They may not want a governmental ban, but given the nature of our government, it gets interpretted as that on this forum.

    3. The ones who love every pharmaceutical and demonize any plant that threatens the bottom line.

    This is too bad. Kratom can be habit forming (as is anything that makes a person feel "good,") but arguably as benign as a coffee addiction for some. However, it may be worse with other people, and these potential dangers should be discussed, but due to the ever growing abuses of the nanny-state, such a discussion is hampered by the fear of what they may do to a potentially beneficial plant.
    Last edited by RJB; 08-16-2015 at 09:04 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    The reason these threads get heated is there are three camps.

    1. The libertarians who are very wary of any negative report about an herb for fear of dangerous "War on Drugs" response from the government.

    2. The libertarians who know a loved one who had a bad experience with certain material and want to warn others. They may not want a governmental ban, but given the nature of our government, it gets interpretted as that on this forum.

    3. The ones who love every pharmaceutical and demonize any plant that threatens the bottom line.

    This is too bad. Kratom can be habit forming (as is anything that makes a person feel "good,") but arguably as benign as a coffee addiction for some. However, it may be worse with other people, and these potential dangers should be discussed, but due to the ever growing abuses of the nanny-state, such a discussion is hampered by the fear of what they may do to a potentially beneficial plant.
    Well said, RJB.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    At the grow I work at here in Denver one of my good friends/co-workers takes a handful of these everyday and swears by them.

    But he refuses to pick any up for us because he swears it's as addicting as opiates (which he went to rehab for a few years back) and by his own account he cannot stop taking them if he tried so while it's certainly a nice, natural, stimulant I can say from his first handed, heavy, experience of using these that they are absolutely addicting and you'll be dropping $30 on them a day before you know it...

    Do not believe ANYONE who tells you these aren't addictive because I see it first hand with him that they are VERY addictive and the reason he won't pick any up for us is because everyone he's gotten on to them has also become addicted. The biggest problem with trying to quit taking them is you'll fall into a huge depression during the withdraws (his claim, not mine) and your body will feel like $#@! until your system has cleansed itself of it.

    You've been warned.
    It sounds like it may be the best solution for your friend, otherwise he would likely be taking substances that are more dangerous.

    For me I just use herb. If somebody had some of this stuff I would try it, but I wouldn't take it regularly. Your friend is an addict and is projecting his addictive tendencies onto others like yourself. If you made the choice to try it, or use it in very small sparing dosages you would probably be fine. If you have an addictive personality and don't think you would be able to control yourself - and if you aren't on it or anything else now and don't have any need for this type of medication you may consider not taking it.

    This sounds like it is relatively non-addictive compared to other opioids. Cupcakes are "addictive". And to be honest, cupcakes sound like they will kill you before kratom.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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