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Thread: Trump says Rand weak on Israel, military, golf game. Rand campaign responds.

  1. #1

    Trump says Rand weak on Israel, military, golf game. Rand campaign responds.

    Trump:

    Rand Paul is doing so poorly in the polls he has to revert to old footage of me discussing positions I no longer hold. As a world-class businessman, who built one of the great companies with some of the most iconic real estate assets in the world, it was my obligation to my family, my company, my employees and myself to maintain a strong relationship with all politicians whether Republican or Democrat. I did that and I did that well.

    Unless you are a piece of unyielding granite, over the years positions evolve as they have in my case. Ronald Reagan, as an example, was a Democrat with a liberal bent who became a conservative Republican.

    Recently, Rand Paul called me and asked me to play golf. I easily beat him on the golf course and will even more easily beat him now, in the world in the politics.

    Senator Paul does not mention that after trouncing him in golf I made a significant donation to the eye center with which he is affiliated.

    I feel sorry for the great people of Kentucky who are being used as a back up to Senator Paul’s hopeless attempt to become President of the United States--- weak on the military, Israel, the Vets and many other issues. Senator Paul has no chance of wining the nomination and the people of Kentucky should not allow him the privilege of remaining their Senator. Rand should save his lobbyist’s and special interest money and just go quietly home.

    Rand’s campaign is a total mess, and as a matter of fact, I didn’t know he had anybody left in his campaign to make commercials who are not currently under indictment!

    Rand campaign (Doug Stafford):

    Wow, that took a while to read.

    First, Ronald Reagan spent 20 years as a conservative before running for President, not twenty minutes. He changed out of conviction. He campaigned for Goldwater in 1964 giving one of the great conservative speeches of all time, setting the intellectual agenda for a generation of conservatives.

    Donald Trump couldn't set the intellectual conservative agenda of anything, not even the tiniest rooms, never mind a country. He is devoid of ideas other than he likes the idea of power and getting attention for foolish statements and bluster.

    Rand Paul is the one following in the footsteps of Reagan, setting the intellectual agenda for a conservative movement of change. Rand stands for principle. He has detailed plans to end our debt by balancing the budget in 5 years. He has a detailed flat and fair tax that would be a huge tax cut for Americans while ending the corporate welfare gravy train for people like Donald Trump.

    He has real plans to defeat the Washington machine like term limits and forcing Congress to read the bills.

    While he appreciates Donald's golf skills, I will note that [the game] was on his home course that he plays often. And he does sincerely appreciate Donald's generosity to the eye clinic. In fact he has mentioned it often, including in his op-ed and speeches this weekend.

    The fact is, Rand is running to fight the big business, big government establishment. Donald Trump already represents one end of that problem. Now he wants to represent the other. It won't work.

    read more:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...oset-democrat/
    Last edited by jct74; 08-12-2015 at 06:00 PM.



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  3. #2
    you can tell who is intellectual and who is a deflecting blowhard

  4. #3
    And of course, the headline of the article is "Donald Trump mocks Rand Paul, calls on him to quit presidential race" ...
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  5. #4
    Ah, it look less than a week, but it still appears as though he has nothing.
    They confronted me in the day of my calamity, but the Lord was my support.

  6. #5
    This will not hurt Trump or help Rand. Rand's campaign is ​a mess so far, and going after him in this way shows that he doesn't understand why Trump is leading in the polls the way he is.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  7. #6
    Call him out on bankruptcy

  8. #7
    I really don't feel like either side is giving their a-game in this exchange. Come on Stafford, instead of:
    While he appreciates Donald's golf skills, I will note that [the game] was on his home course that he plays often
    How about:
    It is concerning that Donald considers a good golf game an important part of running for president as we already have a liberal president that spends too much time on the golf course. We certainly don't need another one.

  9. #8
    Call him out on Planned Parenthood !!! He changed his opinion within four days. He said he would shut down the government if Planned Parenthood continued to receive funding. Then he goes on CNN four days later and says not to defund Planned Parenthood.

    Rand needs to go for the jugular on that Planned Parenthood flip flop.



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  11. #9
    Remember the 'bomber gap'?

    I hope Rand can bridge this humor gap. God knows he has enough material to work with.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    Call him out on bankruptcy
    and call Trump out on Rand giving a good chunk of his Congressional allotment back to the US Treasury . . .
    up to about $1.8 million (total over 3 years ?) I believe.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Remember the 'bomber gap'?

    I hope Rand can bridge this humor gap. God knows he has enough material to work with.
    Easier said than done. Facts aren't usually as funny as fluff.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    Easier said than done. Facts aren't usually as funny as fluff.
    Sandwich them. Don't state the fact until you say, 'Mark Twain said a game of golf was a nice walk spoiled. Trump certainly knows how to spoil a nice walk.

    'And his parents certainly knew how to spoil him, too.'
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    This will not hurt Trump or help Rand. Rand's campaign is ​a mess so far, and going after him in this way shows that he doesn't understand why Trump is leading in the polls the way he is.
    And you're an idiot. See? Everyone has opinions.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I really don't feel like either side is giving their a-game in this exchange. Come on Stafford, instead of:


    How about:
    ^^^ See? Now THAT would have been a head shot. First thing I thought of myself.


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And you're an idiot. See? Everyone has opinions.
    Compelling.

    Difference is, I'll be proven right soon enough. Trump isn't where he is in the polls on account of his positions (other than immigration). Attacking him on his positions isn't how to take him down.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  18. #16
    He has detailed plans to end our debt by balancing the budget in 5 years. He has a detailed flat and fair tax that would be a huge tax cut for Americans
    Yes! Yes! Yes!

    No statement from the campaign, on whatever topic, from now to the nomination, should fail to mention these two points.

    Rand should have the words written on the mirror, on a poster over his bed, tattooed to the inside of his eyelids.

    One piece of contructive criticism: you've got to mention the elimination of the payroll tax specifically.

    Everybody out there has a tax plan, the average voter has zero understanding of the differences between them.

    They will notice if you talk about eliminating the entire payroll tax.

    The fact is, Rand is running to fight the big business, big government establishment. Donald Trump already represents one end of that problem. Now he wants to represent the other.
    Boom
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Compelling.

    Difference is, I'll be proven right soon enough. Trump isn't where he is in the polls on account of his positions (other than immigration). Attacking him on his positions isn't how to take him down.
    I think you are also misjudging Trump's supporters. My evidence is only anecdotal; reading Trump supporters tweets on twitter. Whats yours?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Difference is, I'll be proven right soon enough.
    Or not.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    I think you are also misjudging Trump's supporters. My evidence is only anecdotal; reading Trump supporters tweets on twitter. Whats yours?
    Trump has no positions, except for immigration (which is also very vague in terms of specifics). This is by design. Trump is a cipher; he represents the disgruntled "anti-establishment" right wing, but it isn't because of his positions, it's because of his persona. Just look at the people he's managed to corral in support: Jesse Ventura, Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, even Stefan Molyneux!

    I don't doubt there are some supporters that have convinced themselves that Trump is a "real conservative" - that's meaningless title anyway, but I digress. Fundamentally though, that consideration is secondary to the mystique of "The Donald". Rand's positions are more anti-establishment than Trump, but his persona isn't. To take down Trump, you need to have the right persona, and Rand doesn't have that.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  23. #20
    "Mr. Trump you were a Democrat before you were a Republican before you were an Independent before you were a Republican. You were for government healthcare before you were against it. Is there anything that you are consistent with besides using government, that you admit to having bought and payed for in your own words, to bilk investors by declaring bankruptcy?"

    I'd send a $500 dollar donation the next day if Rand uses this in the next debate.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Trump has no positions, except for immigration (which is also very vague in terms of specifics). This is by design. Trump is a cipher; he represents the disgruntled "anti-establishment" right wing, but it isn't because of his positions, it's because of his persona. Just look at the people he's managed to corral in support: Jesse Ventura, Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, even Stefan Molyneux!

    I don't doubt there are some supporters that have convinced themselves that Trump is a "real conservative" - that's meaningless title anyway, but I digress. Fundamentally though, that consideration is secondary to the mystique of "The Donald". Rand's positions are more anti-establishment than Trump, but his persona isn't. To take down Trump, you need to have the right persona, and Rand doesn't have that.
    By anti-establishment are we talking the anti-Romney voters of 2012 (split between Newt, Paul, Santorum, etc)? Or is this a 'new' movement?

    I don't disagree that his persona is what has taken him to the top, and as you elude to this is his anti-establishment '$#@! the system' sort of attitude, or so as perceived by his supporters. So we could say they are mindlessly going to Trump because of the persona he is emitting, they want anti-establishment and think that is what they are getting. Doesn't it make sense then that, when presented with the facts that Trump is not anti-establishment, people will seek that elsewhere, even if it is not Rand? Or is persona the only thing you think will bring him down?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Doesn't it make sense then that, when presented with the facts that Trump is not anti-establishment, people will seek that elsewhere, even if it is not Rand?
    Yes, if they find another person who is not a politician, notably not politically correct, has the capacity to self-finance to not depend on the Chamber of Commerce, and is seen as having a better chance of winning than Trump.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    Yes, if they find another person who is not a politician, notably not politically correct, has the capacity to self-finance to not depend on the Chamber of Commerce, and is seen as having a better chance of winning than Trump.
    They wont fall off to Cruz or Fiorna or Carson, etc? No one currently in the race, or no combination of people in the race, can replace Trump?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    They wont fall off to Cruz or Fiorna or Carson, etc? No one currently in the race, or no combination of people in the race, can replace Trump?
    I think the criteria I mentioned are the reasons people are supporting Trump. Cruz is a politician, so no. Fiorina is PC police, so no. Carson is a joke, if you want a reason, he can't finance his campaign (including the general election) without the Chamber of Commerce.

    If Trump is out of the race, the whole thing changes, and they could support Paul, or maybe not because he burned his chances attacking Trump. Wail till Trump goes scorched earth on Rand
    Last edited by jj-; 08-12-2015 at 08:49 PM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    By anti-establishment are we talking the anti-Romney voters of 2012 (split between Newt, Paul, Santorum, etc)? Or is this a 'new' movement?
    It's a group of many different factions, which includes some of those people, yes. Populism tends to do that.

    I don't disagree that his persona is what has taken him to the top, and as you elude to this is his anti-establishment '$#@! the system' sort of attitude, or so as perceived by his supporters. So we could say they are mindlessly going to Trump because of the persona he is emitting, they want anti-establishment and think that is what they are getting. Doesn't it make sense then that, when presented with the facts that Trump is not anti-establishment, people will seek that elsewhere, even if it is not Rand? Or is persona the only thing you think will bring him down?
    Again, what we know of Trump's positions aren't anti establishment (other than immigration), but his persona is. People who are drawn in because of that aren't going to care about whether his positions are establishment or not. As long as he keeps being a brash, take charge alpha male, and continues to flip the bird at the PC police, that's all it's going to take.

    A decent analogy is that Rand is an empiricist, whereas Trump is a postmodernist. Rand can obliterate Trump logically and factually, but that won't matter because Trump and Rand are arguing from entirely different paradigms.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    Wail till Trump goes scorched earth on Rand
    Best thing that could happen to him. IMHO. Pretty much guarantee him the primary.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jj- View Post
    Wail till Trump goes scorched earth on Rand
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Best thing that could happen to him. IMHO. Pretty much guarantee him the primary.
    Rand is trying to provoke Trump to the point where Trump will attack him too much and people who are fed up with Trump will start coming to Rand's defense. Whether that can actually work remains to be seen...
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    Rand is trying to provoke Trump to the point where Trump will attack him too much and people who are fed up with Trump will start coming to Rand's defense. Whether that can actually work remains to be seen...
    You didn't have long to wait. Though this is actually about that other feud...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard Kerik
    Whether you agree with Paul’s decision to support the freedoms protected by our Bill of Rights — such as freedom of speech and the requirement of a search warrant, and to place some limits on the otherwise un-cabined and massive NSA surveillance program is one thing. However, Christie’s rage at a U.S. senator because that senator has serious concerns over our civil liberties and made a decision that he feels would protect the freedom and liberties of his constituents, evidences precisely the prosecutorial mentality that has caused countless injustices across the country and resulted in the incarceration of thousands of people — many of whom are innocent or wrongly convicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  33. #29
    I'm thinking of the song Karma Chameleon.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You didn't have long to wait. Though this is actually about that other feud...
    How can you continue to support Trump when he is nothing like Rand. Are you being paid to support Trump or Storm Front? Maybe you should take your racist garbage to another forum.

    See I can do that to.

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