Rand Paul op-ed: Don't Fall For A Fake Conservative

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm a paid troll that is swimming in Rand Paul paraphernalia. You guys smoked me out!

[IMG][/IMG

LOL, Alright

...and yet here you are: promoting Trump and attacking Rand.

If you're not a paid shill, then WTF?

I guess the only remaining explanation is that you've lost your $#@!ing mind.

[CPUd]

I don't think many people here understand that many of Rand's most vocal critics, were the most heavily invested. Not everyone is some fed plant.

I don't believe any of them here are working for the feds, or really working for anyone for $$. It doesn't even have to do with Trump, maybe not even has to do with Rand. It has something to do with the fallout after the 2008 campaign.

[SilentBull]

Wow, excellent article. As some have said in the comments, finally someone is standing up to the bully, and I think that's Rand's strategy right now. There are enough people who will never vote for Trump and he's showing them he's the only one willing to take him on. It's a change in strategy for sure, but no one else is doing it. It just may work.

[SilentBull]

The more successful Trump is, the more strongly the anti-Trump vote will be absolutely disgusted and fed up with Trump, which makes going after Trump a good position. And if Trump falls, being the one to take him down is not a bad position either. Win-win, especially if no one else has the balls to stand up to the bully.

Exactly. There are enough anti-Trump people and Rand seems to be one of the only ones going after them.

[RonPaulMall]

Exactly. There are enough anti-Trump people and Rand seems to be one of the only ones going after them.

You mean the anti-Trump people that are currently supporting Jeb, Rubio, Carly, or Christie? Yeah, I'm sure Rand has a great shot at winning them over. Cruz and Walker maybe, but while Rand is busy attacking Trump, Cruz and Walker have actually been spending their time giving anti-establishment voters a reason to vote for them. Rand needs to understand that Trump support has nothing to do with Trump and start fixing the deficiencies in his own campaign that caused his support to crater long before Trump came on the scene.

[Crashland]

You mean the anti-Trump people that are currently supporting Jeb, Rubio, Carly, or Christie? Yeah, I'm sure Rand has a great shot at winning them over. Cruz and Walker maybe, but while Rand is busy attacking Trump, Cruz and Walker have actually been spending their time giving anti-establishment voters a reason to vote for them. Rand needs to understand that Trump support has nothing to do with Trump and start fixing the deficiencies in his own campaign that caused his support to crater long before Trump came on the scene.

I don't think most voters see it the same way. Here on RPF we see an ocean of difference between Rand and the next candidate. To most people, Rand is just another possible choice.

[The Deacon]

People aren't supporting Trump because they think he's a small government guy or true conservative. They're supporting him because he's pushing right-wing nationalism. Anti-excessive immigration, anti-BS trade deals, even anti-war (Trump said he was against Iraq War in the debate). Plus, he's unapologetic in his stances. There's a big appetite for that kind of platform. People I've talked to love what Trump is selling on immigration/trade/war. Rand seems to be against lopsided trade and war (not sure about immigration), but he hasn't gotten the message across loudly and clearly enough on those issues.

[cindy25]

I agree Trump is a fake conservative, but so is Jeb, so is Christie. so is Walker. they are neo-con big govt candidates. why only attack Trump?

[r3volution 3.0]

I agree Trump is a fake conservative, but so is Jeb, so is Christie. so is Walker. they are neo-con big govt candidates. why only attack Trump?

Because he's leading right now.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I agree Trump is a fake conservative, but so is Jeb, so is Christie. so is Walker. they are neo-con big govt candidates. why only attack Trump?

That's what I was thinking. Why not attack someone truly horrible, like...I dunno....JEB? It must be because he thinks Trump has stolen his supporters, and he wants to go win them back. You know for a while I thought he was just going to let Trump do his thing and damage Jeb and Walker before self destructing. Then Rand could ride in and pick up the pieces.

I think what's going on is Rand lost a huge amount of support, and now he's in danger of being kicked off the debate stage. So he's in desperation mode, and needs to attack someone.

[rich34]

That's what I was thinking. Why not attack someone truly horrible, like...I dunno....JEB? It must be because he thinks Trump has stolen his supporters, and he wants to go win them back. You know for a while I thought he was just going to let Trump do his thing and damage Jeb and Walker before self destructing. Then Rand could ride in and pick up the pieces.

I think what's going on is Rand lost a huge amount of support, and now he's in danger of being kicked off the debate stage. So he's in desperation mode, and needs to attack someone.

I think Rand knows that the media is going to keep Trump where he is and will never take him down while at the same time as long as Jeb locks up the 65+ crowd he's going to win the nomination. The other people are just place holders keeping supporters from finding the real anti establishment candidate in the field and that is Rand. Rand attacking Bush is going to do nothing for him. He's not going to win the 65+ crowd and Trump has apparently stole his anti establishment candidate status and the MSM will continue to keep the charades going making his supporters think they really hate Trump, yet they give that $#@!er 24/7 free media coverage. Bush may be the guy that's going to win the nomination, but for Rand, he must go through Trump. He is their firewall of sorts and will continue to hold that position until the elections or unless someone like Rand can expose his positions and force those people supporting him to come to their senses. If all else fails and it starts getting close to the election I'd call on the one person that these idiots just might listen to. His dad Ron. And no I wouldn't care what the media would say, so long as Ron could convince the people why Trump is wrong for America who gives a $#@!. That would be my last ditch effort. I've been to many different sites non political and it seems they'd support Ron over Trump, but they fell like Rand is of the Bush lol clan, literally these idiots believe that. If Bush can call on surrogates to do his dirty work, why not Rand call on someone that these damn people will listen to. I ain't saying to do that now, but if we get within a month's time and things haven't changed, I'd go all out.. I'd be like dad, put the gloves back on!

[CaptUSA]

Has Trump responded to this?

It would seem that with the 24/7 news cycle and Trump's affinity for the camera eye, he would have jumped all over this. You know saying something like, "Rand Paul is just mad because he did so badly in the debate and he's trying to get back in it somehow." But I haven't seen it yet. Since when does Donald bite his tongue?

[DisneyFan]

Trump is an establishment Republican (or establishment Democrat: tomato tomahto).

He's wants to preserve the status quo, for the benefit of cronies like himself.

I don't disagree, but I was talking about the anti-Trump crowd, which is made up of a lot of establishment Republicans.

[SilentBull]

Has Trump responded to this?

It would seem that with the 24/7 news cycle and Trump's affinity for the camera eye, he would have jumped all over this. You know saying something like, "Rand Paul is just mad because he did so badly in the debate and he's trying to get back in it somehow." But I haven't seen it yet. Since when does Donald bite his tongue?

He did: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...l-Paul-respond

[tmg19103]

Great 5 minute interview on Fox of Rand about this article.

While this is only anecdotal, I have seen two long news story comment threads on Trump where Rand got brought up. I lot of posters said they supported Trump, but Rand was there second choice.

People want change, and while I don't get the support of Trump, I guess people see him as the most obvious and drastic change - though Rand is considered the other candidate that does not tow the line. Just not as much as Trump. Notice how Rand's poll numbers dropped while Trump's rose. They have crossover support and Trump is getting more of it right now.

Rand is handling this smartly. He is going after Trump in an intellectually honest way to try and win over Trump supporters, because with Trump gone, many will go for Rand. Problem is low knowledge voters who support personality and can Rand hang in long enough to get those Trump supporters. He has to stay high enough in polls to stay in the debates (fewer candidates will be allowed in as time goes on) and then I think he has a good shot at a late surge getting Trump supporters when Trump implodes or voters lose interest.

If grassroots wants to focus on something right now, it should be winning Trump supporters over to Rand.

https://youtu.be/OSvVFqgDREI

[Matthanuf06]

This only works if Rand calls out more than just Trump.

Trumps popularity is about personality, anti Washington, backbone, willing to call a spade a spade, etc.

If Rand could do that, without stepping over the line, with real policy proposals, then he has a chance of getting Trump supporters.

If he's seen as singling Donald out that'll kill his chances with Trumps supporters.

[Wilf]

This only works if Rand calls out more than just Trump.

Trumps popularity is about personality, anti Washington, backbone, willing to call a spade a spade, etc.

If Rand could do that, without stepping over the line, with real policy proposals, then he has a chance of getting Trump supporters.

If he's seen as singling Donald out that'll kill his chances with Trumps supporters.

Trump supporters are short time memory type of voters.

[acptulsa]

Trump stands in front of the cameras and sticks it to The Man. Then he retires to his boardroom, and he is The Man.

Rand stands up in front of the cameras and sticks it to The Man when anyone does, in fact, point a camera at him. Then he stands up on the floor of the Senate and really sticks it to The Man.

There's a choice here? This is a comparison?

[libertyplz]

[staerker]

[milgram]

Cruz now says it's foolish for Repubs to criticize Trump.
Clearly he's angling for Trump supporters when the big guy finally goes down. I wouldn't be surprised it he was successful.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...mp-121241.html

[kbs021]

It took less than a week for Trump to show his true colors... Rand was right and he needs to collect his prize by focusing on this. http://hotair.com/archives/2015/08/1...tion-services/

[Wilf]

Cruz now says it's foolish for Repubs to criticize Trump.
Clearly he's angling for Trump supporters when the big guy finally goes down. I wouldn't be surprised it he was successful.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...mp-121241.html

You are overestimating Cruz appeal to independents.

[kbs021]

True Wilf. Cruz has NO appeal to any libertarians or other independents. Rand needs to start talking more about himself in addition to attacking Trump. For example
" Trump stated that he isn't opposed to defunding plannedparenthood because they do some good..." "I lead the fight in the senate against planned parenthood, forced a vote, and will continue to fight against this monster."

[acptulsa]

This only works if Rand calls out more than just Trump.

Trumps popularity is about personality, anti Washington, backbone, willing to call a spade a spade, etc.

If Rand could do that, without stepping over the line, with real policy proposals, then he has a chance of getting Trump supporters.

If he's seen as singling Donald out that'll kill his chances with Trumps supporters.

True. But for the time being, if anyone talks that way about him, the correct response is, 'Who's Chris Christie?'

You are overestimating Cruz appeal to independents.

Vastly overestimating it.

No, the polls aren't lying. Independent voters want to be able to vote for Rand Paul.

You want to torpedo the only man who can give us our liberty back in time for us to fix this thing. And you've admitted you want to see it all burn. Fine. Do you have to make it your life's work? Do you really think this such a noble cause that you have to be smug about it?

[enhanced_deficit]

If Rand's attacks led to exit of Trump from race too quickly, that could be bad news for some puppet masters.

Hillary fund raisers could lose big money if media owners took Trump out too soon

[Badger Paul]

If I was Trump flunkie I would simply have the The Donald respond that Rand has no business talking about party switching since he and old man have jumped from the Libertarians to GOP like a hobo jumps trains numerous times and the fact Rand's operatives have trying to get LP lists and activist support by telling lies about being endorsed by LP. I would also say that since Rand has been all over the map on several questions he has no business talking about a real or fake anything. I would also ask what has the "Tea Party" in Washington so far after being given such majorities to govern by the voters, anything? There's a reasons voters are mad and it has nothing to do with real or fake anything other than the promises Republicans in Congress but can't keep.

Now if Rand can answer this effectively, then he can win this exchange.