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Thread: Why Yankees Won't (And Can't) Leave the South Alone

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    Why Yankees Won't (And Can't) Leave the South Alone

    It's in their nature to do so....

    http://www.theimaginativeconservativ...uth-alone.html

    What is there about us that has made us so offensive to them? Or, conversely, what is there about them that has compelled them to meddle in our affairs? The late great Richard M. Weaver, in The Southern Tradition at Bay, addressed himself to analyzing the qualities that distinguish the South from North, and for the nineteenth century he was perfectly on target. “The North had Tom Paine and his postulates assuming the virtuous inclinations of man,” Weaver wrote; “the South had Burke and his doctrine of human fallibility and of the organic nature of society.” The North embraced rationalism and egalitarianism; the South had a “deep suspicion of all theory, perhaps of intellect,” and clung to a hierarchical and deferential social order. The North bowed down before science and material progress; the South “persisted in regarding science as a false messiah,” an remained into “our own time” (the 1940s) “the last non-materialist civilization in the Western World.”

    Penetrating as Weaver’s analysis was, however, it is accurate for only one phase of Yankee history. The Yankees were the way they were long before they began to worship the Almighty Dollar, and their intellectual heirs are still that way even though most of them now espouse socialism or some approximation of it. The psyche of the Yankee—by which I do not mean all Northerners, but only of seventeenth-century New England Puritans and their descendants, both genetic and ideological—has roots that run deep, and ultimately to the Yankee’s ever-changing concept of the nature of God; thus it is that, in regard to the shaping of the New England character, various errors, heresies, nay even blasphemies, figure prominently. To get a handle on the Yankee, it is helpful to begin with his original Calvinism, and especially with the doctrine of predestination: The belief that most men are doomed and a few are elected for salvation, not by faith or works or any other act of human volition, but only in accordance with a preordained and unknowable divine plan. It might seem that the premise precludes speculation by the puny human intellect, that is logical disputation and inspires unlimited arrogance.
    The yankee is inherently a meddler that is full of himself:

    That is the first thing to understand about the Yankee: He is a doctrinal puritan, characterized by what William G. McLaughlin has called pietistic perfectionism. Unlike the Southerner, he is constitutionally incapable of letting things be, of adopting a live-and-let-live attitude. No departure from his version of Truth is tolerable, and thus when he finds himself amidst sinners, as he invariably does, he must either purge and purify the community or join with his fellow saints and go into the wilderness to establish a New Jerusalem. In other words, he must reform society or secede from it; and though he has long since been thoroughly secularized, the compulsion remains as strong in the twentieth century as it was in the seventeenth.
    A second and related characteristic of the Yankee is that, as others have pointed out, he is a gnostic. Adherents of this heresy in ancient times regarded themselves as privy to “knowledge of the divine mysteries reserved to an elite;” the original puritan counterpart was the Elect. The essence of gnosticism as a mindset is the absolute, unquestioning certainty that one is possessed of the Truth. Now it may be objected that there is nothing peculiar to the Yankee about this, for many and possibly most Southerners are unquestioning in their religious faith. But there are profound differences. One is that Southerners have always confined their belief in their certain knowledge to a few simple points of religious faith which are accessible to all, whereas the content of the Yankee’s Truth was esoteric and perennially shifting, even before it was secularized.
    Progress at the expense of humility....

    It is here that the last main theology-derived Yankee characteristic becomes relevant: the Yankees are millennialists. Once again, so are many Southerners, and once again the differences between the two varieties are vast. Traditional millennialism of the sort adhered to by several Southern denominations is based upon the apocalyptic books of Daniel in the Old Testament and Revelations in the New. The first prophesies a steady worsening of life on earth over the course of a thousand years and through a succession of four kingdoms, each more evil than the last, then the sudden reversal of the course of earthly history by divine will and the establishment of God’s earthly kingdom under a ruler called the son of Man. The prophesies in Revelations are more complex but again things grow steadily worse until history is reversed by God, the ruler of His kingdom now being Christ in His second coming.

    An entirely different kind of millennialism, usually known as progressive millennialism, emerged in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, and that is the kind embraced by the Yankee. In this version there was no need for God to reverse the course of human history, for history represented a progression of human triumphs over evil: When the thousand years were done, man himself would have established God’s kingdom on earth. Jonathan Edwards, in the 1740s, reckoned that man had made it about three quarters of the way through, and thus that the millennium would arrive toward the end of the twentieth century. In Edwards’ time, of course, progress toward the heavenly city was directed by God, man acting merely as the instrument of His will; but it was only a matter of time before people of the Yankee persuasion would become convinced that they could build the city without God’s help. After they became so convinced, they began to notice and inform the world that God was dead.

    I said at the outset that the Yankees’ latest campaign to remake us in their own image is well under way. It is easy to believe otherwise, for Southerners qua Southerners are clearly not under such specific pressure as in the 1950’s and 1960’s. Moreover, Yankees have not of late been pointing the accusing finger at us, but have indeed been chanting mea culpa. But these signs are misleading. As for the absence of specific pressure, one need only check the Yankees reform agenda—a host of particular items which add up to a wholesale onslaught against conventional morality, the family, and religion to perceive that they have in mind a more drastic overhaul of our society than any that Thaddeus Stevens ever dreamed of.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-03-2015 at 08:11 PM.



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  3. #2
    For Rothbard's take on Yankees (critical, funny, and characteristically phlegmatic) see:

    "The American Economy and the End of Laissez Faire: 1870 to World War II"

    ...located in my sig line.

    The tl;dr is that Yankees are a gaggle of self-righteous, teetotalling swine.

    They also share important theological/ideological connections with communism.

    https://mises.org/library/messianic-...nt-reformation
    https://mises.org/library/karl-marx-...-eschatologist
    https://mises.org/library/world-war-...-intellectuals

  4. #3
    Awesome y'all.

    They didn't quite finish off the beat down in the war, so now they are all moving here, bringing their liberal nonsense with them.
    Last edited by euphemia; 08-03-2015 at 09:33 PM.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  5. #4
    Yankees don't leave anyone alone.

    Busy body, do gooder, intolerant Puritans.

    "What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven."
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 08-04-2015 at 03:01 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    Awesome y'all.

    They didn't quite finish off the beat down in the war, so now they are all moving here, bringing their liberal nonsense with them.
    Yankee - Someone from up north.

    Damn Yankee - Someone from up north, who moves south.

    God Damn Yankee - Someone from up north, who moves south, then never shuts up about "how we used to do it up north".

  7. #6
    I don't understand the constant South worshiping and North bashing here. Where did Ron Paul get a higher percentage of the vote, New Hampshire or South Carolina? I mean, I like a lot of things about the region I live in but it's not radically different than any other part of America*.

    *Except New York, everything is better than New York.
    Stop believing stupid things

  8. #7
    Did you not know that the South was once a separate nation and was invaded by the North?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I don't understand the constant South worshiping and North bashing here. Where did Ron Paul get a higher percentage of the vote, New Hampshire or South Carolina? I mean, I like a lot of things about the region I live in but it's not radically different than any other part of America*.

    *Except New York, everything is better than New York.
    The Northerners historically tend to embrace statism while southerners tend to embrace individualism. This has roots going back to at least Jefferson-who was none too fond of big city elites in finance (mostly in the North at the time) and such and thought the farming/working folks in the South to be the backbone of national society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I don't understand the constant South worshiping and North bashing here. Where did Ron Paul get a higher percentage of the vote, New Hampshire or South Carolina? I mean, I like a lot of things about the region I live in but it's not radically different than any other part of America*.

    *Except New York, everything is better than New York.
    Were you born here? In the South I mean.
    Equality is a false god.

    Armatissimi e Liberissimi

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    Did you not know that the South was once a separate nation and was invaded by the North?
    Yes, though many southerners wanted nothing to do with the CSA (my ancestors) and black southerners had no voice in it. But I don't feel like revisiting the Confederacy.
    Stop believing stupid things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I don't understand the constant South worshiping and North bashing here. Where did Ron Paul get a higher percentage of the vote, New Hampshire or South Carolina? I mean, I like a lot of things about the region I live in but it's not radically different than any other part of America*.

    *Except New York, everything is better than New York.
    The North has a ravenous appetite for control that truly can never be satisfied. This dysfunction transcends the civil war and expands to our foreign policy as well. The South was far more grounded since they viewed the world in a different light with a focus on family, nature and God. The northerner is more prone to scheming due to the black hole in his soul. All the material riches and power can never fill that hole.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-04-2015 at 05:33 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The North has a ravenous appetite for control that truly can never be satisfied. This dysfunction transcends the civil war and expands to our foreign policy as well. The South was far more grounded since they viewed the world in a different light with a focus on family, nature and God. The northerner is more prone to scheming due to the black hole in his soul. All the material riches and power can never fill that hole.
    This too^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The North has a ravenous appetite for control that truly can never be satisfied. This dysfunction transcends the civil war and expands to our foreign policy as well. The South was far more grounded since they viewed the world in a different light with a focus on family, nature and God. The northern society is always scheming due to their own black hole in his heart.
    Meh, I disagree.

    I have seen more copsucking, more surveillance loving, more state bootlicking and soldier sniffing in the south than I ever see up by me.

    I hate a bunch of south, Tex-ASS most especially, but that said, live and let live.

  16. #14
    Only worse migrant to the Ozarks than a damn yankee is a left coaster...

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    The Northerners historically tend to embrace statism while southerners tend to embrace individualism. This has roots going back to at least Jefferson-who was none too fond of big city elites in finance (mostly in the North at the time) and such and thought the farming/working folks in the South to be the backbone of national society.
    Yes, but IIRC rural northerners also supported Jefferson. And from c. 1896-1960 the north largely supported limited government politicians (like Coolidge) and the South overwhelmingly supported people such as Bryan*, Wilson, and Roosevelt.

    *I really hate to lump Bryan in with the others because he at least had some sense of morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
    Were you born here? In the South I mean.
    Does Kentucky count?
    Stop believing stupid things

  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Meh, I disagree.

    I have seen more copsucking, more surveillance loving, more state bootlicking and soldier sniffing in the south than I ever see up by me.

    I hate a bunch of south, Tex-ASS most especially, but that said, live and let live.
    You are totally correct. The South has been altered greatly since WW2. I should have indicated remnants of the Old South.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Yes, but IIRC rural northerners also supported Jefferson. And from c. 1896-1960 the north largely supported limited government politicians (like Coolidge) and the South overwhelmingly supported people such as Bryan*, Wilson, and Roosevelt.

    *I really hate to lump Bryan in with the others because he at least had some sense of morality.

    Fair enough. I was just being pretty general. It's about as accurate as I can get reasoning from parts to whole, which we have to do when talking about aggregates like "North" and "South".
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The North has a ravenous appetite for control that truly can never be satisfied. This dysfunction transcends the civil war and expands to our foreign policy as well. The South was far more grounded since they viewed the world in a different light with a focus on family, nature and God. The northerner is more prone to scheming due to the black hole in his soul. All the material riches and power can never fill that hole.
    Some of things I like about the South are the prevalence of Christianity and traditional views on family and morality.

    However, the South has often been a region eager to go to war, and this goes back at least to the Mexican-American War. Every region of the US has it's flaws.
    Stop believing stupid things

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Some of things I like about the South are the prevalence of Christianity and traditional views on family and morality.

    However, the South has often been a region eager to go to war, and this goes back at least to the Mexican-American War.
    Every region of the US has it's flaws.
    True that. I reckon it's because that's where most of the soldiery is plucked from and propagandized. What do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #20
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    The North's main problem comes down to high finance and industry. The people don't make the decisions, but are merely given suggestions that they must go along with.

  24. #21
    I grew up in the mid-atlantic states. Many in my lineage were early settlers here. It's only the recent generations that have moved South and West.

    Growing up here, there really is zero thought given to North vs South beyond the civil war. Literally, it never occurs to many of us to care about region. Most "northerners" I know think of the "South" as a vacation location, a winter home or a place to retire. I was never given any reason to think of the South negatively - all of my associations with the South have been positive and mostly surround the winter weather.

    Now, I hear from those who have moved south about the feelings Southerners have towards Northerners. I don't intend to say all Southerners have these feelings, but enough people who were raised in the South have such feelings that everyone who I know who has relocated between the Gulf Coast and the Mason-Dixon line (yes, even as far north as Delaware) has been called a "Yankee" as a derogatory term. From what I gather, generally the closer to the Mason-Dixon line the more it is said in jest, and it is taken more seriously in the "deep South."

    Perhaps, it is just my perspective as someone native to the "North," but there seems to be a disparity in the amount which region within the country born is part of one's personal identity, and a means for which to judge others.

    I do have bias against New Jersey - but more for the oppressive government and not for the residents there.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I don't understand the constant South worshiping and North bashing here. Where did Ron Paul get a higher percentage of the vote, New Hampshire or South Carolina? I mean, I like a lot of things about the region I live in but it's not radically different than any other part of America*.

    *Except New York, everything is better than New York.
    It's all wet nowadays.

    This distinction being described held until about the end of the 19th century.

    In terms of party politics, I can give you a precise date: July 11 1896.

    That dark day saw the nomination of idiot proto-bolshevik William Jennings Bryan, in response to which old the Democratic Party split wide open.

    Democrats like Wilson and Roosevelt followed in his footsteps, in a complete and utter break from the old Jeffersonian Democratic Party.

  26. #23
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    Charlotte is the hub for Bank of America for Christ's sake. I'd say the yankees pretty much do what they please.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-04-2015 at 07:15 PM.

  27. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsey View Post
    Growing up here, there really is zero thought given to North vs South beyond the civil war. Literally, it never occurs to many of us to care about region.
    I think this is one significant difference. The War Between the States is still etched in our collective memories. If you think about it, many of our grandparents and great-grandparents knew soldiers who fought in the war.

    If you couple that with all the Civil Rights stuff, which was another war on the South, you could see why regionalism still exists.
    Equality is a false god.

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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    True that. I reckon it's because that's where most of the soldiery is plucked from and propagandized. What do you think?
    I think so too. One thing I was struck by is how the military is everywhere in SC. In Kentucky we have Fort Knox, a few people I knew wanted to join the military, and there were the elderly veterans. In South Carolina almost everyone I know except the wealthy have some connection to the military.

    I've also been asked to prove that I'm not an Obama supporter when I argue against military intervention in the Middle East. In Kentucky the younger Conservatives, along with a lot of older ones as well, are more open-minded on foreign policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsey View Post
    I grew up in the mid-atlantic states. Many in my lineage were early settlers here. It's only the recent generations that have moved South and West.
    Mine lived mostly in the Upper South (VA, KY, TN, AR, MO). Very few lived north of the Ohio River. None of them that I know of fought for the CSA.

    Growing up here, there really is zero thought given to North vs South beyond the civil war. Literally, it never occurs to many of us to care about region. Most "northerners" I know think of the "South" as a vacation location, a winter home or a place to retire. I was never given any reason to think of the South negatively - all of my associations with the South have been positive and mostly surround the winter weather.
    In Kentucky we're not really sure what we are. I take the position that Kentucky doesn't belong to any region, though many would consider us southern. A lot of Kentuckians claim that there's some line somewhere in the state that Divides north and South. I'm one of the few people here who wants Kentucky to be part of the Midwest.

    And yes, people in KY actually debate this.

    Now, I hear from those who have moved south about the feelings Southerners have towards Northerners. I don't intend to say all Southerners have these feelings, but enough people who were raised in the South have such feelings that everyone who I know who has relocated between the Gulf Coast and the Mason-Dixon line (yes, even as far north as Delaware) has been called a "Yankee" as a derogatory term. From what I gather, generally the closer to the Mason-Dixon line the more it is said in jest, and it is taken more seriously in the "deep South."
    I've been called a Yankee before, but some down here consider Kentuckians Southern, especially someone like me who goes to church every Sunday, listens to Johnny Cash, and loves sweet tea.

    Perhaps, it is just my perspective as someone native to the "North," but there seems to be a disparity in the amount which region within the country born is part of one's personal identity, and a means for which to judge others.
    One thing I find really strange is people from Northern KY talking about how Southern they are. They think they can magically become Southern by owning a Confederate flag or whatever. This happens in southern Indiana as well.

    As far as region goes, Kentuckians make fun of New York, Chicago, and San Fransisco, but mostly for their liberal politics.

    I do have bias against New Jersey - but more for the oppressive government and not for the residents there.
    Yes, I don't see anyone as an enemy because of where they were born, I wish others here would do the same. The South is always glorified and the North is always demonized here.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's all wet nowadays.

    This distinction being described held until about the end of the 19th century.

    In terms of party politics, I can give you a precise date: July 11 1896.

    That dark day saw the nomination of idiot proto-bolshevik William Jennings Bryan, in response to which old the Democratic Party split wide open.

    Democrats like Wilson and Roosevelt followed in his footsteps, in a complete and utter break from the old Jeffersonian Democratic Party.
    It's intriguing that in 1896 the areas of the nation that rejected big government now embrace it. Calvin Coolidge, who would be considered a dangerous right-wing extremist today, won a majority of the Northern vote and the African-American vote. I want the people here who think poorly of those two groups to remember that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post

    If you couple that with all the Civil Rights stuff, which was another war on the South, you could see why regionalism still exists.
    Get over it.
    Stop believing stupid things

  30. #26
    I grew up in the North and never really thought about the South. My experience was like Lindsey's.

    I was warned of the chain gang, though.

    Not that Northern states don't have slave labor.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I was warned of the chain gang, though.
    On a somewhat frivolous note...

    I always thought the chain gain much more humane than our modern prisons.

    Fresh air, exercise, etc.

    If I'm ever falsely convicted of a massive crime, I'll gladly take the chain gang over Rikers.

  32. #28
    Southerners work hard, play harder, and enjoy sweet tea on the porch.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    Southerners work hard, play harder, and enjoy sweet tea on the porch.
    Hear hear, budding dentists

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I think so too. One thing I was struck by is how the military is everywhere in SC. In Kentucky we have Fort Knox, a few people I knew wanted to join the military, and there were the elderly veterans. In South Carolina almost everyone I know except the wealthy have some connection to the military.
    Until Bill Clinton's round of BRAC, Charleston SC was overwhelmed with active duty military personnel and retired all the way back to WW1. Charleston was stripped of 90% of it's active duty fleet in Charleston, and their economy fell apart.


    Mine lived mostly in the Upper South (VA, KY, TN, AR, MO). Very few lived north of the Ohio River. None of them that I know of fought for the CSA.
    My mother came from polish immigrants in Wisconsin, and my father from a string of people across VA to IL, into WV and NC. Without a shadow of a doubt I had a lot of relatives on both sides of it, but all on my father's side. Though I was born in VA, started in SC and came up in NC. So I feel like I am a 'blank southern template' laid on a Southern society, by a dead father come out from both sides of the war. So my perception of the War was vague and impressionistic. My conclusion as to the aggressor boils down to the Union was always supposed to be voluntary. A lot of people on both sides did a lot of wrong things. A lot of people on both sides were fighting for real and good reasons.

    There was always a better way, and neither side chose to take it, which I suppose is what I consider the most criminal act, on both sides. Charleston didn't need to just go and start bombing a US Naval base for heaven's sake. (I love palmetto tree brothers, but that was dumb. Someone comes up with secession it's not changing things fast enough you go batshirt and start shelling bases? I mean really? They apparently left NC to keep you southern bulldogs on a chain lol. Some Tarheel must have been derelict of duty way back when, and you went and bombed a freakin base when secession was actually working- albeit slowly. I mean WTF?)

    Taking away the Charleston Navy Base was just the final nail in an entire people. You want it gone? Okay now it's gone. 130 years later when they had embraced it and prospered, Clinton ripped it back out of them and Charleston all but fell apart.

    I've been called a Yankee before, but some down here consider Kentuckians Southern, especially someone like me who goes to church every Sunday, listens to Johnny Cash, and loves sweet tea.
    Mid South Appalachia, into the midwest. Appalachia and the South share a lot of character.

    One thing I find really strange is people from Northern KY talking about how Southern they are. They think they can magically become Southern by owning a Confederate flag or whatever. This happens in southern Indiana as well.
    lol we are literally transregional, and tribalism really is a state of mind, so I would expect to find a best approach facsimile of southern people somewhere in Alaska, too.

    As far as region goes, Kentuckians make fun of New York, Chicago, and San Fransisco, but mostly for their liberal politics.
    North Carolina mostly makes fun of other cities on the Atlantic's college basketball. To the hard core native, places like NY or SF just draw blank stares. Not because they haven't heard of it, but just because they aren't very interested. Politics everywhere is insane, especially in NC.

    Yes, I don't see anyone as an enemy because of where they were born, I wish others here would do the same. The South is always glorified and the North is always demonized here.
    Do not discount rebel credentials. "I'm a rebel, from a family of rebel's we've always rebelled against unjust authority." a point of pride, why attacking the paradigm hurts them so much. It is a point of cognitive dissonance with their current submissive reality. When CD is involve, expect people to react in any 1000 which ways.

    It's intriguing that in 1896 the areas of the nation that rejected big government now embrace it. Calvin Coolidge, who would be considered a dangerous right-wing extremist today, won a majority of the Northern vote and the African-American vote. I want the people here who think poorly of those two groups to remember that.
    Television happened.



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