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Thread: Marines Declare F-35 Fighter 'Operational'

  1. #1

    Marines Declare F-35 Fighter 'Operational'

    The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is, at a total cost of $1.5 trillion, the biggest military boondoggle in US history. The "next generation fighter" has been plagued with cost over-runs and serious functional problems. The fighter jet will not even have a gun until 2017. But it is being built in a total of 45 states and several foreign countries, so no Member of Congress would dare try to kill this beast. Last week the US Marines declared the jet to be "operational" -- but if you read the fine print there is little reason to think they will be flying it anytime soon. Today's Liberty Report looks at one of the worst examples of military Keynesianism:




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  3. #2
    Those who profit from the Military Industrial Complex, make our country less safe by spending us into debt, and create vehicles and aircraft that put those who would defend the country at risk should be hanged as traitors. IMHO.

  4. #3
    There is something to the adage, "If it looks like a pig, it will fly like a pig."
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

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  5. #4
    LOL they also declared the Osprey operational while it was busy killing Marines.

  6. #5
    Jan2017
    Member

    Operational as in operational in Denmark with USA Miramar top gun pilots.
    OK

  7. #6
    Bleeding edge they are, and proud of it.

  8. #7
    Obsolete before it's operational. Grand thinking behind this one.
    "I am a bird"

  9. #8
    Doesn't "Marine" suggest and imply water?



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  11. #9
    Imagine if that 1.5 trillion had been spent on upgrading the US' infrastructure.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DFF View Post
    Imagine if that 1.5 trillion had been spent on upgrading the US' infrastructure.
    Imagine if it and the trillions spent on other crap was never taken from taxpayers in the first place.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
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  13. #11
    Sounds like you're confident the empire won't strike back anytime soon! 'But it is being built in a total of 45 states and several foreign countries, so no Member of Congress would dare try to kill this beast.' I'm really looking forward to Jesus' rule very much indeed.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DFF View Post
    Imagine if that 1.5 trillion had been spent on upgrading the US' infrastructure.
    5 grand per each person in this country. That's a lot of dough. They could wipe out the student debt with it.

  15. #13

    F-35: Useless Junk That Won't Worry Russia, China in the Least

    http://russia-insider.com/en/militar...-battle/ri8987



    When it could no longer be hidden that F-35 can’t manouver Pentagon started saying it doesn’t matter because it will be able to shoot down enemy fighters before they ever get close - however, this too is now looking increasingly unlikely

    After the leaking of a report about the recent failure of an F-35 to win in a dogfight against an F-16D, debate has intensified about the future nature of air to air combat.

    In a recent Strategist post, Andrew Davies identifies the importance of combining long-range air-to-air engagement using ‘Beyond-Visual Range Air to Air Missiles’ (BVRAAMs), with the advantage bestowed by stealth technology to reduce detectability of the aircraft, as well as exploiting superior sensors, information processing and electronic warfare capability.

    Davies also notes that it is yet to be demonstrated how effective these capabilities will be in a future operational environment, stating ‘…there are reasons to wonder how effective the F-35’s bag of tricks will be into the future, especially as counter-stealth systems evolve, and I’d like to see it carry more and longer-ranged weapons…’

    Clearly the F-35 was designed to undertake a particular approach to air-to-air combat in mind (long-range attacks) rather than close-in dogfighting. This highlights a key question that is now generating significant debate: ‘Are our current assumptions about future air combat—that BVR engagement will dominate and ‘dogfights’ have had their day’—correct?

    The underlying basis for current assumptions about the ascendance of long-range air-to-air combat and the demise of the dogfight is that US and allied forces will always have a clear and sustainable ‘knowledge edge’ over any adversary in a manner that bestows superior situational awareness to permit unrestricted use of BVRAAMs.

    In this regard, the true success of the F-35 in tactical air-to-air warfare may in fact depend on an ability to preserve a knowledge edge at the strategic level in the face of determined efforts by future adversaries to decisively win an information battle at the outset of any future conflict.

    In considering future adversaries, Chinese information warfare doctrine makes clear the requirement to attack US C4ISR systems, including satellites, from the outset or even prior to, any military conflict. This information warfare campaign will be fought in space, cyberspace and across the electromagnetic spectrum. The PLA sees the information battle-space as an integrated environment comprising both cyberspace and electronic warfare, and base their approach to these domains around the concept of Integrated Networked Electronic Warfare (INEW).

    General Dai Qingmin, PLA, states that a key goal of the PLA’s approach to INEW is to disrupt the normal operation of enemy battlefield information systems, while protecting one’s own, with the objective of seizing information superiority.

    Therefore, winning in the air against the PLAAF may be determined as much by which side wins these information warfare campaigns, as through success in tactical beyond-visual range air to air engagements. Imagine no data links between the F-35s and the AWACS; AESA radars on an E-7A Wedgetail spoofed; ASAT attacks that bring down strategic communications or computer-network attacks that strike logistics or which jam GPS signals, and the first shots fired are not missiles but satellites silenced by computer hackers or ground-based jamming.

    Furthermore there will be an incentive to strike quickly and decisively, with an information ‘battle of the first salvo’ effect emerging. Without the flexibility bestowed by these systems, the F-35 pilot must rely on on-board sensor systems such as its AESA Radar and Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) to detect, track and engage targets which increase the detectability of the aircraft and potentially bring the F-35 into the envelope of an opponent’s within visual range systems.

    Does the F-35s dependence on maintaining information superiority make it ineffective? If the F-35 is relegated to a long-range BVR-AAM role, and if future air power doctrine is formulated with this approach in mind, then the effectiveness of the platform—and of Western air power—is at risk if key C4ISR systems can be attacked.

    In this regards, any assumption that modern air forces don’t dogfight is a dangerous one to make. Such an assumption lacks credibility as no air force would cede control of the air simply because it cannot operate with all desired advantages. Air forces have to be prepared to dogfight—even with the F-35 as their fighter.

    Finally, future adversaries will not be as courteous as to fight the US and its allies on their own terms and in a manner that reinforces their advantage. The enemy always gets a vote.

    In the future, what wins in the air is firstly winning the information battle across space, cyberspace and the electromagnetic spectrum to gain superior situational awareness and deny it to an opponent at the strategic, operational, and tactical level.

    An inability to counter an adversary’s information warfare systems will significantly reduce the ability of tactical combat aircraft like the F-35 to gain sufficient situational awareness to employ BVRAAMs effectively, and thus fight in our preferred approach to air operations.

    It seems unlikely our future adversaries will fight in a manner most conducive to their own defeat, and it’s a safe bet that Chinese and Russian analysts understand all the weaknesses of the F-35 and how to wage air warfare in a manner to best exploit those weaknesses. Expect the F-35 to be forced to dogfight when it is employed in real warfare against an intelligent, well-equipped and determined enemy.

  16. #14
    It's a nice looking aircraft tho.
    "I am a bird"

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    It's a nice looking aircraft tho.
    Yeah, so is this but at least it's not 1.5 trillion:


  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Yeah, so is this but at least it's not 1.5 trillion:

    1.3 Trillion is my top bid...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    1.3 Trillion is my top bid...
    Dude. How do we become members of the MIC? We could be rich if we approach the right congress men with this proposal!

  21. #18
    I think the fact that we spent 1.3 trillion on it already more so the "built in 45 states" is the reason why it won't be cancelled. At this point, its all about saving the $1.3 trillion investment rather than saving a few extra billion. Also, its not like we would all of a sudden abandon the quest for a new next gen fighter if the F-35 program was cancelled tomorrow.

    Very difficult decision to make regarding the program.

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    It's a nice looking aircraft tho.
    I have seen it in person, it is fat for a single engine blended wing. With wings and enough thrust you can make a grand piano fly, but it is still a grand piano.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think the fact that we spent 1.3 trillion on it already more so the "built in 45 states" is the reason why it won't be cancelled. At this point, its all about saving the $1.3 trillion investment rather than saving a few extra billion. Also, its not like we would all of a sudden abandon the quest for a new next gen fighter if the F-35 program was cancelled tomorrow.

    Very difficult decision to make regarding the program.
    We should have stuck with the F-22 instead.
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Those who profit from the Military Industrial Complex, make our country less safe by spending us into debt, and create vehicles and aircraft that put those who would defend the country at risk should be hanged as traitors. IMHO.

  26. #23

    Red face Jeb! has a solution


  27. #24
    I'd rather everyone of them crash in remote areas so we only have to pay for life insurance of the dead pilot instead of rebuilding countries they attack. Better yet, crash on the runway. No weapon DC owns should be withheld from we the people.



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  29. #25
    No need to have the capability of shooting down the carrier based F-35's.

    The ones out flying will join the rest of their squadron under the flight decks soon enough after their carrier is sent to the bottom by a variety of modestly-priced missiles.

  30. #26
    The norwegian politicians tailor-made the specifications in the "new fighter selection competition" for the F-35, and used insane fudgy figures for hiding the true cost of this airplane. (Like 4X times lower than the final cost) They even had the audacity to claim that the F-35 would be the cheapest alternative in the long run, while fudging the figures about the alternative fighters so that half of them would crash over a 25-year period to make this true. This thing isn't built to keep norwegian airspace safe, (inferior in air-superiority to the latest russian fighters) but to bomb 3rd world countries on NATO missions. (it's an excellent, but expensive stealth-bomber, with very limited air superiority capabilities)


    This thing costs so much that they closed down and sold all military airports except one, which it is going to be operated from. (Obviously it will take 1000's of engineers to keep it in the air since it's so advanced) So in the future the norwegian air force can be made inoperational win ONE missile, cratering the runway. Cuts in the submarine force and removal of all tanks in the army is being discussed, because there is no way they can afford this airplane on current military budgets.


    Obviously it would have been much better going for swedish or european 4.5gen fighters for 1/5th the price, (which can land on standard runways or even regular roads), or the newest version of the F-15, which is a beast... combined with AA-batteries near Russia. But the military-industrial-complex has no borders, and norwegian defence companies will now make billions selling missiles for it worldwide. Even while everybody in the US everybody was talking about the cost overruns, the shills in the defence department here were talking about "Oh, we haven't received any notifications from the americans about any cost overruns, so it's still the cheapest alternative". It's a scam.
    Last edited by Foreigner; 10-19-2015 at 09:02 PM.

  31. #27
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  32. #28
    Bernie Sanders supports the F-35? Say it isn't so!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Bernie Sanders supports the F-35? Say it isn't so!

    its a commie jobs program to him. lockheed in vermont.

    Search Results - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

    www.sanders.senate.gov/search/?q=F-35&start=0...


    Bernie Sanders


    The Official U.S. Senate website of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. ... F-35 fighter jets are being built because of support from Sen. Sanders.

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  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    F-35: Useless Junk That Won't Worry Russia, China in the Least


    I wouldn't be surprised if they conspired with bernie to sell the $#@! to us.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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