Bitcoin-to-Ripple Gateway to Shut Down for all US Customers

[muh_roads]

lol @ ripple & lol @ US citizens thinking they live in "the land of the free".

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115024...m_campaign=alx


Bitcoin to Ripple gateway service btc2ripple.com has announced it is cutting service for its US customers from September.
The company confirmed the news in an email sent out Thursday:

“If you are a US person:

• Starting Sept 1, 2015, you will not be able to make BTC deposits to your Ripple Trade account or make BTC withdrawals from your Ripple Trade account
• Before September 1, 2015, please either withdraw your BTC or convert it into any other currency on the Ripple Network.”

The bulletin added that activity solely within the Ripple network, along with service usage by non-US citizens, would be unaffected by the changes.
While no official explanation for the decision has yet been given, it is notable that Ripple has been engaged in legislative maneuvers over the past year, some of which have run contrary to the perspectives and goals held by the Bitcoin community.
Specifically, the centralized nature of Ripple as a business has led to criticism from parties such as Erik Voorhees, who in April voiced concerns about its decision to require verified ID from anyone wishing to use the Ripple network.
“Thank goodness Bitcoin exists,” he added.
CEO Chris Larson had previously stated that “[Ripple] actually don't think the world needs a new currency” and that there were already “plenty of currencies.”

[muh_roads]

CEO Chris Larson had previously stated that “[Ripple] actually don't think the world needs a new currency” and that there were already “plenty of currencies.”

Why do I get the feeling that Ripple from the beginning was just a giant troll attempt created by bitcoin fans playing a game of distraction with the regulators as bitcoin flourishes?

I hope these guys sell Ripple to some unsuspecting FinTech company with more money than they know what to do with. The purchaser will realize they simply bought a $#@!coin clone with more limitations than your average $#@!coin. It'd be like Mark Cuban selling his worthless broadcast.com company to Yahoo for billions before Yahoo realized the mistake they made.

[wizardwatson]

Why do I get the feeling that Ripple from the beginning was just a giant troll attempt created by bitcoin fans playing a game of distraction with the regulators as bitcoin flourishes?

I hope these guys sell Ripple to some unsuspecting FinTech company with more money than they know what to do with. The purchaser will realize they simply bought a $#@!coin clone with more limitations than your average $#@!coin. It'd be like Mark Cuban selling his worthless broadcast.com company to Yahoo for billions before Yahoo realized the mistake they made.

Great theory, except Ripple protocol predates Bitcoin by about 4 years. Ryan Fugger, the original inventor of the protocol concept turned it over to someone else. Few people even understand the basic mechanism, much less the barriers of adoption that prevented Ryan from truly finishing it, and eventually turning it over to someone else.

Most of the people who love Bitcoin don't understand the currency dynamics that it is vulnerable too either, and Bitcoin is simpler to understand than Ripple.

I don't think Ripple will take off simply because people don't understand what the mechanism highlights about the nature of currency itself. It's a road to ending currency as we know it.

[kfarnan]

Great theory, except Ripple protocol predates Bitcoin by about 4 years. Ryan Fugger, the original inventor of the protocol concept turned it over to someone else. Few people even understand the basic mechanism, much less the barriers of adoption that prevented Ryan from truly finishing it, and eventually turning it over to someone else.

Most of the people who love Bitcoin don't understand the currency dynamics that it is vulnerable too either, and Bitcoin is simpler to understand than Ripple.

p
I don't think Ripple will take off simply because people don't understand what the mechanism highlights about the nature of currency itself. It's a road to ending currency as we know it.

Please, enlighten the masses, oh wise wizard.

[muh_roads]

Great theory, except Ripple protocol predates Bitcoin by about 4 years.

Well whatever they were using, they are not using it anymore. They obviously couldn't get it working prior to bitcoin. Ripple is now bitcoin technology with restrictive gateways added more recently. For a long time it was just the same wallet and address tech. Ripple didn't get off the ground until Roger Ver funded it.

If you want to talk about predating concepts, then bitcoin was technically a concept from a sci-fi book in the 90's.

Nothing matters until it actually works. And what works in Ripple is mostly a copy.

[wizardwatson]

Please, enlighten the masses, oh wise wizard.

People on this website don't even understand anymore what the message is. They don't understand why it's not ok to be racist in ever increasing numbers it seems. They don't understand that "liberty" requires an ethical philosophy that goes beyond "don't punch me first, otherwise anything goes", just to name a few things.

We are at a stage where people need to be worried about general safety and soul-searching, not pretending they are expert praxeologists.

I doubt my higher level opinions on currency dynamics and solutions would even be understood in any useful light.

Well whatever they were using, they are not using it anymore. They obviously couldn't get it working prior to bitcoin. Ripple is now bitcoin technology with restrictive gateways added more recently. For a long time it was just the same wallet and address tech. Ripple didn't get off the ground until Roger Ver funded it.

If you want to talk about predating concepts, then bitcoin was technically a concept from a sci-fi book in the 90's.

Nothing matters until it actually works. And what works in Ripple is mostly a copy.

That's the delusion of the Bitcoin people. That it's "working". But many people who are working on and researching solutions to currency problems, oh, I don't know, like THE RON PAUL MOVEMENT WANTING TO END THE FED don't see Bitcoin as a solution to that. I am in that group.

And the people that do think it is a solution don't understand the various problems with fiat and fractional reserve systems that Bitcoin doesn't address and would still exist in a pure Bitcoin environment.

I won't say the Bitcoin protocol is a failure. I actually was impressed by the concept of the blockchain. THAT is the real innovation. Not the attempt to limit the numerical amount in circulation and incentivize mining to keep it afloat. People love it for the wrong reason. They think it's good because the "government" can't control it or snoop who is who, but it's the transparency in the public ledger/blockchain and the way it's cryptographically validated that is the real value.

But few understand that point.

[kfarnan]

"I doubt my higher level opinions on currency dynamics and solutions would even be understood in any useful light."


I'm sure there are highly educated people here who would listen.

[muh_roads]

People on this website don't even understand anymore what the message is.

The message is to let people do what they want in a free market. Some of us choose bitcoin. That has never changed.

They don't understand why it's not ok to be racist in ever increasing numbers it seems.

Wat?

They don't understand that "liberty"

lol, I think you're the one who doesn't understand liberty if you think it has to be done your way or only one way.

I doubt my higher level opinions on currency dynamics and solutions would even be understood in any useful light.

lol, ok.

Then you must be ungodly rich like most market makers. To which I ask, why are you here? Go make some FX trades or something.

But cool. So you must have a boat load of coins like I do because you bought in @ $10 in 2012 also. I got lucky, but someone who understands market dynamics such as yourself could've seen that coming. Good job getting in early too. Oh wait...you didn't. The fact of the matter is I was surrounded by people such as yourself telling me to not cash out my 401k to do this. I am glad I didn't listen to them back then because I live a pretty decent lifestyle now.

That's the delusion of the Bitcoin people. That it's "working".

Of course it is working. Permission-less P2P payments are proof positive it is working as intended. Didn't we learn anything from wikileaks or sites like backpage recently being blocked by visa, mc, paypal?

But many people who are working on and researching solutions to currency problems, oh, I don't know, like THE RON PAUL MOVEMENT WANTING TO END THE FED don't see Bitcoin as a solution to that. I am in that group.

lol caps-lock. You clearly have jealous sour-grape issues or something. Of course I want to end the fed. But the means now exist to take control of your own life and ignore the fed. I believe in the free market taking action on their own accord. I don't need to wait for a "leader".

And the people that do think it is a solution don't understand the various problems with fiat and fractional reserve systems that Bitcoin doesn't address and would still exist in a pure Bitcoin environment.

So are you saying gold & silver wouldn't address these things in a pure gold/silver environment? Bitcoin is neither fiat nor fractional and it is doing the exact same thing as a representative money system...but without anyones permission.

I won't say the Bitcoin protocol is a failure. I actually was impressed by the concept of the blockchain. THAT is the real innovation. Not the attempt to limit the numerical amount in circulation and incentivize mining to keep it afloat. People love it for the wrong reason.

Umm, I think you're the one who clearly doesn't understand decentralized consensus and why overcoming the double-spend problem was such a mathematical breakthrough.

And by saying "block chain not bitcoin" shows a lack of understanding of metcalfe's law as well. Neither bitcoin or the block chain would have value without each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

They think it's good because the "government" can't control it or snoop who is who, but it's the transparency in the public ledger/blockchain and the way it's cryptographically validated that is the real value.

That transparency exists because of the decentralized nodes that contribute to the network. You can't have transparency without the latter. And the latter wouldn't exist without an incentive structure to maintain it.

But few understand that point.

I think you need to look in the mirror to see a person who actually doesn't understand what is going on here.

[wizardwatson]

The message is to let people do what they want in a free market. Some of us choose bitcoin. That has never changed.

Wat?

lol, I think you're the one who doesn't understand liberty if you think it has to be done your way or only one way.

lol, ok.

Then you must be ungodly rich like most market makers. To which I ask, why are you here? Go make some FX trades or something.

But cool. So you must have a boat load of coins like I do because you bought in @ $10 in 2012 also. I got lucky, but someone who understands market dynamics such as yourself could've seen that coming. Good job getting in early too. Oh wait...you didn't. The fact of the matter is I was surrounded by people such as yourself telling me to not cash out my 401k to do this. I am glad I didn't listen to them back then because I live a pretty decent lifestyle now.

Of course it is working. Permission-less P2P payments are proof positive it is working as intended. Didn't we learn anything from wikileaks or sites like backpage recently being blocked by visa, mc, paypal?

lol caps-lock. You clearly have jealous sour-grape issues or something. Of course I want to end the fed. But the means now exist to take control of your own life and ignore the fed. I believe in the free market taking action on their own accord. I don't need to wait for a "leader".

So are you saying gold & silver wouldn't address these things in a pure gold/silver environment? Bitcoin is neither fiat nor fractional.

Umm, I think you're the one who clearly doesn't understand decentralized consensus and why overcoming the double-spend problem was such a mathematical breakthrough.

And by saying "block chain not bitcoin" shows a lack of understanding of metcalfe's law as well. Neither bitcoin or the block chain would have value without each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

That transparency exists because of the decentralized nodes that contribute to the network. You can't have transparency without the latter. And the latter wouldn't exist without an incentive structure to maintain it.

I think you need to look in the mirror to see a person who actually doesn't understand what is going on here.

That is not the "message". In post #6 I clearly said that people seem to think it means "don't punch me first, otherwise anything goes". You simply reiterated that sentiment.

I'm talking about the message of the movement. The message to the remnant, the message that UNITES the remnant, in the Nockian sense. You are centered around this sub-issue of currency.

Apparently, when you think it is "working" you are talking about it being in operation. When I say "working" I mean in the sense of solving pre-existing problems. When you "sell" someone on Bitcoin you have to tell them why it's better than FRN's do you not?

You are clearly agitated with me. Even the very thing I said WAS the innovation you have denied I understand:

Umm, I think you're the one who clearly doesn't understand decentralized consensus and why overcoming the double-spend problem was such a mathematical breakthrough.

That's what the block chain is. A public consensus/validation mechanism that prevents double-spending on a decentralized network. I agreed that was the REAL innovation. Where I disagree is that it's any kind of solution to the wider economic problems and only needs to be adopted for things to change. I maintain that it is just as susceptible to manipulation and self-interested actors.

Let me identify one of those problems for you:

Then you must be ungodly rich like most market makers. To which I ask, why are you here? Go make some FX trades or something.

But cool. So you must have a boat load of coins like I do because you bought in @ $10 in 2012 also. I got lucky, but someone who understands market dynamics such as yourself could've seen that coming. Good job getting in early too. Oh wait...you didn't. The fact of the matter is I was surrounded by people such as yourself telling me to not cash out my 401k to do this. I am glad I didn't listen to them back then because I live a pretty decent lifestyle now.

You are bragging about how you've gotten rich off of Bitcoin? This is your pathway to establishing credibility? That if I'm "for real" I should wave my fat wallet around in some sort of big dick competition? I made no predictions but only said that it was unstable, probably morseso than FRN's. I said this on this forum PRIOR to 2013.

And THAT is precisely what happened. It was around $120 in September 2013, spiked to around $980 in late November 2013, and right now is sitting around $280. In what way is this a rational stable currency that regular people can store their savings in? What are the mechanisms that caused this and how can they be prevented and corrected?

I'm glad you live comfortably off people who have invested in this. Congratulations. You are a currency speculator like George Soros who delights in the destruction of economies.

In your world apparently the only way to establish credibility is to adopt, master and provide a portfolio for proof, of those techniques which I'm trying to eliminate the incentive for in the first place (or "was" when I involved myself).

This is part of why I don't discuss my ideas on here. The egos are out of control. Bitcoin has made it worse. Now instead of searching for real solutions it's turned into a football game of "existing currency vs. assumed to be viable anti-government currency". It's pathetic. Makes me wonder if it wasn't controlled opposition in the first place to take the focus off real solutions.

So you win. I'm just a whiney titty baby who doesn't know how to make money.

When I get big and strong like you then maybe I'll be able to have an intelligent debate on this subject.

[Dianne]

I guess you've seen this post by KPitcher. Look at the company the U.S. finds itself in. And they insinuate the U.S. is a free country?

Update on the nanocard.

I received it in the mail and was easy to activate. However I obviously missed some fine print, or it has been added since I ordered.

The card has 3 levels of usage. Totally anonymous is max 250 Euro per year. Level 2 is verified, 2500, Level 3 is bank verified unlimited. USA users are stuck at level 1. Shame, it's not really the solution I thought.

The dream of an anonymous bitcoin backed credit card isn't yet out there. Or even a verified bitcoin backed card... oh well, I see they're working on it.

Take a look at these countries. Not many Western countries in it...
Residents from the following countries may order cards, but may not raise card limits to level 2: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Cambodia, Ecuador, Guyana, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Myanmar, Namibia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Romania, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Uganda, United States and Minor Outlying Islands, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

[wizardwatson]

"I doubt my higher level opinions on currency dynamics and solutions would even be understood in any useful light."


I'm sure there are highly educated people here who would listen.

I didn't want to go into it, but since I've given so many words to muh_roads when he's quite unlikely to listen, I'll say a little. And my previous points to him really highlight the critical issue.

Inflation itself isn't the problem, "double spending" as they call it. Even if you eliminate fractional reserve banking the currency operators can still monetize assets arbitrarily. Fractional reserve banking just makes this process efficient. Monetizing assets and the methods for assigning the value can still contain the elements of currency destabilization.

If we aren't aware that it's "unstable currency" that lies at the heart of the problem we won't see the solution. The real enemy is the incentive to destabilize and profit from that mechanism. (muh_roads being a perfect example of a currency manipulator, not that he's immoral, it's considered a badge of honor in todays world I suppose)

As one example, Hayek proposed a system of currencies which compete for stabilization in his 1976 work "The Denationalization of Money". That is the real goal. To have a stable currency that is virtually impervious to manipulation. The original Ripple protocol holds some of the keys for understanding how to do this and also gives one some insight into the fundamental nature of money itself.

So all one's research into this subject should really be centered on what is the nature of "sound money". What makes money stable? How do you prevent instability in the price signals over the entire economy? How do you eliminate mechanisms for easy credit? The mechanisms themselves aren't that complex but are very subtle.

People who preach on about Bitcoin don't really address these issues. They just proselytize people using memes about how the government is evil and any alternative is preferable. That takes us further away from looking at the problem with fresh eyes.

[muh_roads]

I guess you've seen this post by KPitcher. Look at the company the U.S. finds itself in. And they insinuate the U.S. is a free country?

Update on the nanocard.

I received it in the mail and was easy to activate. However I obviously missed some fine print, or it has been added since I ordered.

The card has 3 levels of usage. Totally anonymous is max 250 Euro per year. Level 2 is verified, 2500, Level 3 is bank verified unlimited. USA users are stuck at level 1. Shame, it's not really the solution I thought.

The dream of an anonymous bitcoin backed credit card isn't yet out there. Or even a verified bitcoin backed card... oh well, I see they're working on it.

Take a look at these countries. Not many Western countries in it...
Residents from the following countries may order cards, but may not raise card limits to level 2: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Cambodia, Ecuador, Guyana, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Myanmar, Namibia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Romania, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Uganda, United States and Minor Outlying Islands, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

Amazing isn't it? Land of the free...lol What a joke.

Xapo I think said they don't have the International debit card yet for the US & India. I'm not sure why this list differs from others, but a common theme we are seeing for sure is the good 'ol US of A being excluded consistently while the international community can enjoy these cards.

Since the US is the largest(?) consuming nation I can only imagine this is why the regulatory capture was set up. It would be game over to cut the loop (same goes for Texas with the gold reserve they are talking about and the debit cards that might flourish there). I'm positive early adopters will convert their entire lives to BTC, constricting supply and it would slowly escalate from there with more people doing direct deposit to BTC and just paying for everything and saving with it.

The debit card regulations probably exist because the Gov't was afraid of people doing Gold debit cards. But because of the nature of bitcoin where physical vaults aren't needed and transportation cost is instant and zero, the (illegal) debit cards will probably flood the US. Eventually the regulatory capture finally picks a few winners like Coinbase or Circle as providers. But not before companies like Goldman Sachs make more contrarian bets investing like Circle. They are probably holding their nose as they do it. Gotta love that.

[kpitcher]

Earlier this year Ripple was on a hiring spree. Not sure if that's still the case but they were flush with cash and working to do something. What that is I can't tell you.

So I take it I should convert the free ripple I got years ago to BTC while I still can?

[muh_roads]

Inflation itself isn't the problem, "double spending" as they call it.

Umm, yes double spending is a problem because someone is benefiting that didn't deserve it. Are you sure you don't belong on the democrat underground?

Fractional reserve banking just makes this process efficient.

Yeah efficient for those who benefit from the new debt being lent out. Which is why I despise things like proof-of-stake. It's socialist.

Monetizing assets and the methods for assigning the value can still contain the elements of currency destabilization.

But as long as humans are maintaining those "methods" then eventually each monetized asset falls apart over time due to policy changes because we are stupid humans.

The core of the bitcoin protocol is doing one thing and one thing only and that hasn't changed since its inception in 2009. That is solving complex math problems. Math doesn't decide when to pick winners and when to pick losers. It doesn't know who you are and doesn't care. It doesn't decide to take my money if I deposit $10K in an accidental way that looks "structured" with the bank within a certain time frame.

If we aren't aware that it's "unstable currency" that lies at the heart of the problem we won't see the solution. The real enemy is the incentive to destabilize and profit from that mechanism. (muh_roads being a perfect example of a currency manipulator, not that he's immoral, it's considered a badge of honor in todays world I suppose)

Currency stability does bring more users on board because it is what people want. I agree. And that is where stability will come from as time marches on. More users. Why wait until then? I personally like to put my money where my mouth is, but nobody is asking you to bet the farm. Contrarian investing is something a person should be familiar with if they are going to claim to be knowledgeable with "higher level currency dynamics". I am diversified in fiat, metals, and crypto. Are you?

There is nothing wrong with trading. Every market out there is a bag transfer game. If I make mistakes trading then the currency spreads to more hands. I accept that and that is fine.

The original Ripple protocol holds some of the keys for understanding how to do this and also gives one some insight into the fundamental nature of money itself.

Dude Ripple is a 100% pre-mine with two or three fifths owned by the developers and they can create more if they want.

So all one's research into this subject should really be centered on what is the nature of "sound money". What makes money stable? How do you prevent instability in the price signals over the entire economy? How do you eliminate mechanisms for easy credit? The mechanisms themselves aren't that complex but are very subtle.

I only care about having money that I own and not someone else's debt. Stability will come as more users get involved. Think of the US dollar in its last days as being like bitcoin right now. Bitcoin will go in the other direction and they will meet parity somewhere in the middle of the stability sea, then pass each other. Even Blythe Masters says financial block chains will be worth trillions. Bitcoin has a very good shot at grabbing a very big piece of that being the leading decentralized currency that answers to no gov't.

There is evidence of bitcoin maturing after each bubble. The 2011 bubble was far more volatile % wise than what we are dealing with now so that is proof the stability is appearing. While it is still very volatile, it is nothing compared to a $#@!coin.

"Mechanisms" like leveraged shorting is something people say gives price stability and tries to find real market value. Which is something that now exists in bitcoin.

People are going to do what they want. You can't stop them. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[kfarnan]

Sound money was the reason for the creation of Cryptocurrency. Inflation is a problem today.