How Rand Paul can stir up his dad's supporters without offending conservatives

[TaftFan]

He needs to start talking about the Federal Reserve.

Make it relevant. It can be related to our economic woes, the national debt, and income inequality.

While in the Senate, Rand has really only talked about auditing the Fed. And he hasn't even talked about that lately.

He needs to set up a meeting with George Selgin who is now working with Cato's new monetary initiative in D.C. They can create some talking points and get started.

If Rand is truly getting stale and needs to safely stand out, this is the way to do it. I have no idea why he isn't.

[juleswin]

All good stuff but also he needs to stop promoting a US created Kurdistan and stop saying Assad needs to go. As long as he continues to promote those two ideas, the only thing he would get from me is tepid support and zero campaign donations. I would have also added him explaining the turmoil in the middle east as being caused by the 1000 yr disagreement between sunni and shia. I took it off because if he were to tell the truth about it, conservatives would call him a conspiracy theorist.

[Wilf]

All good stuff but also he needs to stop promoting a US created Kurdistan and stop saying Assad needs to go. As long as he continues to promote those two ideas, the only thing he would get from me is tepid support and zero campaign donations. I would have also added him explaining the turmoil in the middle east as being caused by the 1000 yr disagreement between sunni and shia. I took it off because if he were to tell the truth about it, conservatives would call him a conspiracy theorist.

When

[Krugminator2]

I would have also added him explaining the turmoil in the middle east as being caused by the 1000 yr disagreement between sunni and shia.

From today's Washington Post to a neoconservative group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/28/rand-paul-tells-veterans-why-america-should-avoid-wars-in-the-middle-east/
“They’ve been killing each other for a thousand years and they’ll probably be killing each other for another thousand years. That doesn’t mean we just retreat, and do nothing. That means we need to acknowledge what the Middle East is like before we get involved.”

[thoughtomator]

If Rand isn't going to go anti-immigration he's not going to win, period. Trump's rapid rise despite his obvious, deep flaws shows what voters in the GOP want.

And it will play very very well with independents too. The backlash against the corporatist agenda is coming to a head, anyone who's not on board with it is going to be yesterday's news.

Here's the winning agenda:

- anti-immigration of all types, illegal AND legal (H1-Bs especially)
- anti-NSA/spying/police state/mass incarceration
- push all the federalized social BS back to the states where it lawfully belongs
- make a clear statement of what a United States that isn't an imperial empire looks like and why that benefits American citizens
- attack corruption relentlessly and don't be shy about calling it out

[juleswin]

When

He said in one of the interviews after the filibuster. And I have heard him say it two other times. I am about to head to bed now, but when I have time, I would find it and send you the link. He doesn't say who is going to get rid of Assad but he has said that he needs to go.

And mind you this comes after he criticizes Obama for causing chaos in the middle east by knocking off secular ME leaders.

[juleswin]

From today's Washington Post to a neoconservative group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/28/rand-paul-tells-veterans-why-america-should-avoid-wars-in-the-middle-east/
“They’ve been killing each other for a thousand years and they’ll probably be killing each other for another thousand years. That doesn’t mean we just retreat, and do nothing. That means we need to acknowledge what the Middle East is like before we get involved.”

Ofc, that's what the war pushers want you to believe. Syrians of all religious belief have been living peacefully in Syria for thousands of years. But it is amazing how that peaceful coexistence can be shattered by the west giving weapons and training to Al Qaeda link Islamic Jihadists.

Its sunni terrorism mostly coming from US allies and Saudi Arabia and Shia's fighting for survival. So yea, that explanation is BS and continues to be BS to anyone who follows ME politics

[Krugminator2]

I don't get it. Isn't that the answer you wanted him to give.

Edit: I see what you are saying now. I see you don't like that explanation.

[timosman]

He needs to start talking about the Federal Reserve.

Nope. He does not. We really do not need an audit at this point to know their books are cooked.

[TaftFan]

If Rand isn't going to go anti-immigration he's not going to win, period. Trump's rapid rise despite his obvious, deep flaws shows what voters in the GOP want.

And it will play very very well with independents too. The backlash against the corporatist agenda is coming to a head, anyone who's not on board with it is going to be yesterday's news.

Here's the winning agenda:

- anti-immigration of all types, illegal AND legal (H1-Bs especially)
- anti-NSA/spying/police state/mass incarceration
- push all the federalized social BS back to the states where it lawfully belongs
- make a clear statement of what a United States that isn't an imperial empire looks like and why that benefits American citizens
- attack corruption relentlessly and don't be shy about calling it out

That might be true, but if he flipped on immigration it would be an epic flip flop. Not sure he could pull it off.

[TaftFan]

All good stuff but also he needs to stop promoting a US created Kurdistan and stop saying Assad needs to go. As long as he continues to promote those two ideas, the only thing he would get from me is tepid support and zero campaign donations. I would have also added him explaining the turmoil in the middle east as being caused by the 1000 yr disagreement between sunni and shia. I took it off because if he were to tell the truth about it, conservatives would call him a conspiracy theorist.

I agree with creating a Kurdistan. Lots of good arguments for it, self-determination being the main one. I don't really want the U.S. creating it, so to speak, but recognizing it I would be fine with.

[thoughtomator]

That might be true, but if he flipped on immigration it would be an epic flip flop. Not sure he could pull it off.

better to rationalize a flip flop than get caught on the business end of a tidal wave - the blowback from decades of rampant corporate-socialism has arrived

[Brett85]

If Rand isn't going to go anti-immigration he's not going to win, period. Trump's rapid rise despite his obvious, deep flaws shows what voters in the GOP want.

And it will play very very well with independents too. The backlash against the corporatist agenda is coming to a head, anyone who's not on board with it is going to be yesterday's news.

Here's the winning agenda:

- anti-immigration of all types, illegal AND legal (H1-Bs especially)
- anti-NSA/spying/police state/mass incarceration
- push all the federalized social BS back to the states where it lawfully belongs
- make a clear statement of what a United States that isn't an imperial empire looks like and why that benefits American citizens
- attack corruption relentlessly and don't be shy about calling it out

Coming across as anti immigrant is not popular whatsoever in a general election. There's no point of winning the GOP primary just to lose in the general election.

[Brett85]

All good stuff but also he needs to stop promoting a US created Kurdistan and stop saying Assad needs to go.

He's never argued that Assad needs to go. He's actually argued the exact opposite.

[thoughtomator]

Coming across as anti immigrant is not popular whatsoever in a general election. There's no point of winning the GOP primary just to lose in the general election.

I strongly disagree. I think this country has had it with the endless flood of immigrants sucking up all the jobs while Americans remain unemployed at record levels. Being anti-immigration will be a major advantage in the general over a pro-immigration opponent.

[TaftFan]

He's never argued that Assad needs to go. He's actually argued the exact opposite.

Maybe he has said that Assad should go in that he is horrible, but not in the sense that the U.S. should remove him.

[pao]

He's never argued that Assad needs to go. He's actually argued the exact opposite.

I've unfortunately heard him say that Assad needs to go as well, but he says as part of a deal, not necessarily by force. To me, the position undermines his main argument in the past for staying out of Syria.

[timosman]

I strongly disagree. I think this country has had it with the endless flood of immigrants sucking up all the jobs while Americans remain unemployed at record levels. Being anti-immigration will be a major advantage in the general over a pro-immigration opponent.

Agree, plus in the time between now and the general election the situation will only get worse. This further strengthens the argument for adopting this position.

[nikcers]

Turkey has been arming ISIS, and now they are bombing the Kurds so he needs to distance himself away from this. Bin ladens death was a fairy tail that got Obama reelected -Hillary's war was supposed to make her the next president-Hillary's foreign policy is not working; Obamas drone policy creates terrorists.

Iran is front and center -RAND needs to be the voice of reason, overthrowing IRAQ and LIBYA didn't help the region, so why should they expect Iran to be better? Even Iran knows this, Iran's crony military wants to take over, don't give Iran's population any incentives to back their crazy military. Let them wake up to the fact that it isn't us that is stopping them from free speech and eating food.

[cindy25]

attack foreign aid (except for Israel ) . Israel can be after he is elected.
copyright reform and internet privacy. prohibit the ISPs from giving customer info to the Hollywood studios
immigration-cut means tested benefits to all aliens, legal and illegal.
electoral reform-ask states to select electoral college by congressional district (40-50 extra GOP votes, if done by WI, OH, FL, MI, VA, PA)
close US bases in Korea and Japan, or make them pay for it. Trump has already proposed this , and no one attacked him for this.

[RonPaulMall]

Coming across as anti immigrant is not popular whatsoever in a general election. There's no point of winning the GOP primary just to lose in the general election.

Believing that corporatist lie is the reason Rand is sagging so badly in the polls. Mass Third World immigration isn't even popular among the majority of Democrats. And it is widely unpopular among Republicans and Independents. Dave Brat understood. Rand did not.

That might be true, but if he flipped on immigration it would be an epic flip flop. Not sure he could pull it off.

He has to try though. I outlined my idea for how he could do it in another thread. Tease a major policy speech on immigration reform. Then in the big speech you reveal that you want to completely blow up the current "failed" immigration system and adopt an Australian style points system.

"We need to implement a system that asks potential immigrants what they can do for America rather than what America can do for them".

It is a winning pitch. In the details you throw out that overall immigration quotas should be set by Congress based on the labor needs of America and the points system sorts out how you prioritize those slots. This is what America wants. And because it is such a radically new idea (for American politics) Rand can't be accused of "flip flopping" or anything. It is a bold new idea that completely breaks the mold, just like his tax plan. This is the only way forward for Rand. Then he has to tie that and everything else he says and does from now on in to his new theme which revolves around ending the corporatist/government war on the middle class.

[idiom]

He needs to start talking about the Federal Reserve.

Make it relevant. It can be related to our economic woes, the national debt, and income inequality.

While in the Senate, Rand has really only talked about auditing the Fed. And he hasn't even talked about that lately.

He needs to set up a meeting with George Selgin who is now working with Cato's new monetary initiative in D.C. They can create some talking points and get started.

If Rand is truly getting stale and needs to safely stand out, this is the way to do it. I have no idea why he isn't.

There is a way easier target than the Fed, especially since he is a doctor. The Medical racket. its 20% of GDP. its an even bigger parasite than the FED.

[Brett85]

Believing that corporatist lie is the reason Rand is sagging so badly in the polls. Mass Third World immigration isn't even popular among the majority of Democrats. And it is widely unpopular among Republicans and Independents. Dave Brat understood. Rand did not.

That's simply not what the polls show. The polls show that the majority of Americans are in favor of a path to citizenship even for illegal immigrants.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

[65fastback2+2]

Coming across as anti immigrant is not popular whatsoever in a general election. There's no point of winning the GOP primary just to lose in the general election.

yup. Sure fire way to piss away a possible presidency.

[acptulsa]

yup. Sure fire way to piss away a possible presidency.

Yeah, there are a couple of people in this thread who are just full of those. They've got a million of them.

[Southron]

yup. Sure fire way to piss away a possible presidency.

Being a hardliner on immigration is one of the best ways to pull working-class voters from Democrats.

[erowe1]

Being a hardliner on immigration is one of the best ways to pull working-class voters from Democrats.

Do you have any evidence for that?

[erowe1]

Coming across as anti immigrant is not popular whatsoever in a general election. There's no point of winning the GOP primary just to lose in the general election.

It's also a proven failure in Republican primaries.

[AuH20]

If you step away from the coastal population centers, immigration is hugely unpopular. Too many fools fall for the media narrative on this topic and a host of other topics. Look at some of the national polling on illegal immigration. It's touches in the 60s.

[AuH20]

59% of Americans polled wish to send latest illegal immigrants home. Such a fringe position I tell you.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ants_home_asap