Don't worry, we'll all be laughing at you eventually.Originally Posted by jj-
Why? You think Huckabee or someone like that will win? I'm rooting for all three Rand, Cruz, and Trump.
I got to give it to you guys. You Trump fan boys use every excuse to bump Trump threads. You guys are the minority around here but you guys are relentless and will push the hell out of your authoritarian candidate on liberty tree website and for that, I salute the Trump fan boys.
Too bad I am not the owner of the website cos I would ban you all so fast, your empty heads would spin.
Duckies, IMOHO public relations is PR and often is in tandem with polling & policy wonks pontificating.
i half wonder if this is as poll driven as was Mitt Romney's decision in 2011/12 as to whether he ought
not to wear ties as often as he once did when he was our governor. We know Fox News way back in
2011 + 2012 had at least five "heart-throb" candidates who'd skyrocket up in the polls, burst onto the
national collective un~conciousness and then spiral or fizzle down after brilliantly starbursting grandly.
Lets be very careful if THAH DONALD's buttocks hath accepted the FOX NEWS branding iron hot and
all that comes with it. At least he's a truth in labeling equal to Herman Cain! Could someone do up a
few choice YouTubes for the AUGUST THIRD event & that AUGUST SIXTH debate? I'd be in total bliss!
I want to see how Doctor Rand Paul does inside this crowded field! I still think this is RAND's YEAR!!!!
oh my god!!!
If Rand was polling where Trump is, we'd be doing the same thing. It's all about fomenting chaos. Chaos is good. I hope Rand eclipses Trump, but it's probably not going to happen.
I'm pretty sure Bush will be the nominee. Trump is just going to do his part in destroying Bush and Hillary's opposition before he bows out.
If you'll be laughing at me because Bush will be the nominee, I guess you'll be laughing at just about everybody here.
Bush has the most resources hidden in these various PACs. He can inflict the most damage over the duration of the campaign and APPEAR to be above the fray. Bush is beatable, but the field has to condense quickly.
So the first thing to go on your 'liberty tree' website would be free speech. Sounds very ... tyrannical and authoritarian.
JEB ain't where the GOP is at. Paul Ryan is actually closer to the undefined middle. Keep in mind DOCTOR RAND has yet to alienate
Gentleman Mitt's social conservatives, but we must try to keep Mitt's left*wing flank from defecting to either Barack Obama, Hillary
Clinton or Joe Biden! Mitt came awful damn close to being inside 1600 PENN AVE right now, Duckies! Most of Mitt's people could be
very comfortable with a GOP party planking platform very much like that of Senator Barry Goldwater's COW PALACE vintage '64 one!
Yeah, if you're rooting for Rand and Trump, or Trump and Cruz, you're not good enough. That would be just about the most inept and ineffective forum.
This crazy authoritarian attitude of wanting to control the thoughts and exchange of thoughts that differ even temporarily is fairly scary. That type of climate fosters an authoritarianism where the values of liberty couldn't grow. Good thing people with such attitudes are completely ineffective and self-defeating.
Last edited by jj-; 07-27-2015 at 10:12 PM.
I'm not actually much of a Trump supporter myself, in fact I'd probably entertain supporting Walker or Kasich before supporting him if by some odd turn of events those 3 were still in the race by the Pennsylvania primary and both Cruz and Paul were out of the race. But all things considered, I find it oddly ironic that so many "Libertarians" are musing over banning people from a forum for posting a little too often about their divergent opinions. Granted, I'm not a strict, 100% libertarian myself, but some folks here get easily upset and start contradicting their own principles just a tad too quickly these days.
Nothing unlibertarian about a property owner ejecting someone from his property.
Ah, so you would agree that Americans, as the property owners of this country, are justified in ejecting undocumented squatters from south of the border off of their property? My, you are making the rounds of late my friend.
Ineffective in promoting libertarianism if you run it the way hells_unicorn is pointing out. More like making a mockery of libertarianism.
That can be consistent with property rights, but this is not the issue hells_unicorn is talking about.
Trump's game reminds me a bit of the final scene in 8 Mile. He makes fun of other candidates, points out hypocrisy, taps into the anti-politician populism so common these days and just generally says what people want to hear from a candidate's mouth finally. The media is clearly helping him accomplish this so it must be asked why the media is helping him. Ron tried to do this, with less bombast of course, but the media blacked him out.
Trump's goal isn't to win or even be a serious candidate. I think his purpose is to air the dirty laundry BEFORE the debates so no candidate can land points during debates by saying things that Trump has already said. IOW, it deflates candidates (like Rand mainly) that would have tapped into the anti-politician populism before they get a chance to on bigger stages.
I don't think 3 days between the 3rd and the 6th is going to make a world of difference. If I were Trump and a serious candidate, I'd want a fairly low key warm-up forum instead of making my first appearance at the Faux debate.
Last edited by devil21; 07-27-2015 at 10:25 PM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
Jesus H Christ, free speech lies in the domain of govt, this website is called liberty tree and you guys are here pushing this authoritarian candidate when we have a liberty type candidate in the race. If you guys don't know it, this website is privately owned and the owner has every right to ban people who do not promote the goals of the group.
What you guys are doing is akin to a Muslim person coming into a church to do his call to prayers. If free speech says the church should let that Muslim stay and keep singing, then I don't want any part of it.
For the love of Jesus, please take your ass to Donaldtrumpforums.com and never ever return.
Rand ran away from this tact several months ago................I don't think he and his team thought someone like Trump would emerge in such a fashion.
Last edited by AuH20; 07-27-2015 at 10:35 PM.
Americans do not collectively own the country, individual property owners own their individual properties.
Slow week...My, you are making the rounds of late my friend.
I do think that this is a real possibility, and again, I'm not supporting Trump nor am I suggesting that ANYBODY who supports Rand to switch their support, primarily because I do smell a rat here, though I'm not sure where the smell is coming from as of yet. I'm not on the conspiracy train regarding Trump's candidacy, though I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing this as a favor to somebody in the political establishment in one of the 2 parties.
I also don't buy into the notion that Trump will outright deflate Rand Paul, since Rand is trying to play middle of the road for credibility purposes while still trying to maintain his base. I actually think that Rand is playing it smart by avoiding either supporting or outright attacking Trump, as his antics will eventually be his downfall and that of anybody who supports him, and his large base of supporters will have to go somewhere and they probably wouldn't go for somebody who outright attacked him.
It'll be interesting to see if the upcoming rape charges that The Daily Beast is airing will sink Trump like similar accusations did Herman Cain last time around, and I'm personally hoping that if Trump drops out of the race because of it that he sues the hell out of them and turns his "bull in a china shop" routine on all of his enemies from outside of the electoral process. I do have to agree with some of the more pro-Trump people here that the chaos being fomented is quite amusing, despite it probably not accomplishing anything apart from angering a lot of people that I don't particularly like.
Rand was never going to go this route precisely because he didn't want to go down in flames the way Trump is likely to do in the next couple weeks. If Trump had not emerged, the people supporting him would have coalesced around Cruz or someone else taking on a firebrand persona. If you look at the history of presidential politics, firebrands don't get elected to higher office unless they hide it until after the votes are counted. One might argue that Reagan was a firebrand, but a closer look at his coalition building techniques tell a completely different story.
I'm a huge fan of the politics of somebody like the dearly departed Barry Goldwater, but given the ideological tendencies of the electorate, I know that somebody as brazen of him would be lucky to attain a governorship, save maybe in a place like Texas.
Last edited by hells_unicorn; 07-27-2015 at 10:40 PM.
I didn't say they collectively owned the country, I said that they were the property owners of this country, it's a de facto statement, not a de jure one, though in a sense their individual property rights do amount to a collective reality given shared culture, activity, and a whole host of other things that certain libertarians tend not to account for out of a dogmatic adherence to radical individualism.
Anyhow, these "undocumented persons" are essentially squatting on somebody's property, so maybe instead of getting hung up on "individual...GOOD! collective...BAD!" we can just call a shovel a shovel and get on with it? Just saying.
It's interesting that Rand spends a lot of time doing things that don't appeal to the GOP base, but to getting new votes in the General Election, and then devil blames Trump for the loss of support from the base. Was he sleeping the last year or so?
Rand's strategy might pay off if he makes it to the general, but ignoring the tactic and blaming Trump is just ridiculous.
If you want more evidence, notice that Rand wasn't as high in the polls as he used to be even before Trump got in.
I really don't know what happened to you. You used to be an ok poster but since Trump started talkin immgration, you haven't been the same.
You are actually by far the biggest Trump cheerleader on this site. But you try to disguise it with your "if Rand" posts. You second guess everything Rand does that doesn't come from the Trump play book and you do just the opposite for Trump. When he pulled out of the debate, your first thought is "he was out to prepare for the 2nd debate" instead of "he is not a serious candidate". I bet 1000 bucks that if the reverse had happened, you wouldnt have given Rand the benefit of the doubt. In fact, I can see you using it to push for Rand to drop out of the race
Beyond promoting himself and his brand for its own sake, I do think he's running as somebody's plant - and not to win but to affect the outcome in some way.
"Hey Don, we gotta deal for ya, run for a couple months and drop, nevermind why, we have our reasons; you get a couple billion in free promotion out of it, deal?"
The obvious culprit would be the Democratic Party, trying to poison the well for the general. But who knows. We'll probably never know.
Another plausible theory. And he could be doing that on behalf of the RNC, for the benefit of Jeb.Trump's goal isn't to win or even be a serious candidate. I think his purpose is to air the dirty laundry BEFORE the debates so no candidate can land points during debates by saying things that Trump has already said. IOW, it deflates candidates (like Rand mainly) that would have tapped into the anti-politician populism before they get a chance to on bigger stages.
Oh, first post referring to Trump commenters without using 'Trump fan boys'. Making progress, jules.
All very plausible. Granted, he is egoistical enough to be doing this himself.
Hard to say what they had been planning for the debates though.
1 other point:
It's clear to me that the establishment's (both political and media) mission is to turn this GOP election season into one big ass un-serious joke. 17 candidates, Trump's shenanigans, candidates that truly have no shot and no business running for GOP nominee whatsoever (Pataki, Graham and others), etc.
If you've read my thread on Trump's political donations then you'd see clearly who he's working on behalf of.
Last edited by devil21; 07-27-2015 at 10:47 PM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
I fully support the right of association and private property rights, so if the owner of RPF wishes to ban any discussion of Rand's weak points and of Rand's faulty strategies, then that would be the right of the owner. But here's the problem for Rand in that situation. The RPF community would essentially become an echo chamber for back-slappers. It would become isolated from those supporters of liberty and prosperity who are seeing serious problems with the movement's choices and strategies. Banning constructive criticism and alternative strategies to preserve the movement beyond personality politics and family dynasties weakens the movement.
RPF would lose touch with harsh reality very quickly. The community would be happy until it loses. It would then wonder why it lost.
I don't think any one here loves Trump. Speaking for me only, I'm simply looking for a way forward for liberty and prosperity. As things stand today, I think Trump has a chance to win. I don't think Rand has a chance to win. But I do think Rand would make a great VP this time around which would set him up of for a very good chance at the WH in 2020. But we are going to have to do something about Rand's hair. Maybe some Dapper Dan.
Who profits by squelching my speech to those ends on the RPF? Rand? I don't think so.
My money reflects who I support. I've donated to Rand very generously. I'm loaded to the gills with Rand paraphernalia. But if Rand isn't in contention, I will vote for Trump if he's still a force. Beyond that, I'm not overly enamored with the field. I'm looking for someone to really blow up the political process in this country. I think Trump could do it under the right conditions. People need to stop playing the game. It's rigged. If Trumps' ascendancy can spread this notion, then he's a fantastic candidate, even if he doesn't know it.
Last edited by AuH20; 07-27-2015 at 10:47 PM.
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