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Thread: Trump: "All freedoms flow from national security"

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I am a Constitutionalist. I am unwilling to abandon every principle I have shed blood sweat and tears over the last 8 years for. I will die before I join any coalition that involves neocon liberal progressive Trump.
    Well, hopefully we won't have to die, but I'm with Gunny here.

    Not going to drink of that vat of Kool-Aid, sorry.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    That isn't true.



    That isn't true either.



    It's been painful for all of us to watch as the fracturing of the RP coalition took place. The coalition never was a monolithic Libertarian movement. Many in the RP coalition did not identify as Libertarian, Republican, Democrat or any other party. They were independent. They do not join groups to be part of a herd. Many merely want to be free of globalism and be individuals in a sovereign nation that maximizes individual liberty and prosperity. A sovereign nation has borders and regulates trade and immigration to manage the needs of the nation in order to maximize individual liberty and prosperity for its citizens.

    Once Ron folded up the POTUS campaign, the coalition members who did not have the time and/or desire to engage in group politics watched in sad resignation as the coalition did what groups usually do - fracture - as the power struggles began to see who was going to control the group. The group became politicized and dominated by people who declared themselves to be the ideological leaders of the group only to watch the coalition dissolve around them and wonder why. They even attempted to take control of this liberty forum and enact rules and limit tactics, strategy and candidates that were 'acceptable' coming into this election.

    Rand came along and naturally many hoped he would be like Ron but were doubtful after Rand's behavior near the end of Ron's campaign. Time has shown that Rand is not Ron and holds several principles and policies that conflict with some of those that made Ron such a magnet for his campaign.

    Rand has potential though and many of us would like to see him ascend to POTUS eventually, so the question many of us are asking is, how can we incrementally move towards more liberty and prosperity now at the same time that we elevate Rand to national office.

    Many on the forum dislike Trump. But quite a few see him as the best option at the moment to win the POTUS and move the nation incrementally towards more liberty and prosperity. This is why, I have advocated that the forum members consider a TRUMP - PAUL 2016 ticket. Explore it. Talk it up. Trump is 70? He would be 75 at the end of his first term as POTUS? PAUL 2020 running as an experienced and successful VP sounds like a very reasonable possibility.

    That your reaction to this proposal can be predicted is a measure of at least some of the reasons why the RP coalition has fractured.

    The GOP has fractured.
    The RP coalition has fractured.
    The Dems are fracturing.

    There's a HUGE opportunity here to form a new coalition of the disenfranchised who still believe the globalists need to be defeated so we can move towards more liberty and prosperity. Trump and Sanders appear to attracting these disenchanted and disenfranchised in their respective parties. Looking past the primaries, many see this as the seed of the new coalition that might be able to put the TRUMP - PAUL 2016 ticket in charge until 2020.

    Something to think about.

    Haha....that is the worst political prediction I've read on this website. It's literally nuts, and has no chance of happening.

  4. #123
    Donald Trump tweeted a campaign ad featuring Nazi uniforms on an American flag



  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Haha....that is the worst political prediction I've read on this website. It's literally nuts, and has no chance of happening.
    Read it again. It's not a prediction. It's a proposal.

    Ron Paul was cost many votes by the propaganda impression created by the GOP/Dem Parties and the MSM that he was unelectable; the mass of the rank and file believed as they were conditioned to believe that he was a clown on the outer fringes of Wackoville. Don is no Ron, but in many ways he is better equipped to get some things done if elected to the office. And those 'things' could help reverse the agenda of the globalist crowd.

    Regularly, smart management reviews the status of any campaign and reassesses the plan and its goals. Many now question if those in the liberty movement who are more inclined to fundamentalist ideology even have a plan.

    One imagines a leather helmeted, goggle wearing world war one pilot riding his burning plane all the way down to its abrupt encounter with the unmovable Earth; refusing to use the chute strapped to his back to bailout and live to fight another day. Why does the pilot not bailout? Why is there no Plan B for the liberty movement to move liberty, prosperity and Rand forward?

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    However, our freedoms come from God. If you're an atheist, they come from nature, not by government decree. I am free because I was born that way and keep myself free.

    I don't think my statement was deceptive. Trump is a man who has made many conflicting statements over the years. He used the force of government to try to force an old woman from her home to build a casino. He has no principles and he calls for military strength. I don't trust that.

    I trust the man in your avatar a whole lot more than trump. Pat is consistent. Trump is not.
    I didn't say my rights come from the military and neither did Trump, but saying we have natural rights is a nice ideal, however the reality of life is that others don't care about that ideal and if you can't forcefully defend yourself, you will lose your freedoms. Also, I've said numerous times I am not in love with Trump, I don't trust Trump, I don't see him as any kind of savior, I only feel it is great that he is speaking the unspeakable and not backing down like every other chicken$#@! out there.

    For how many years now most of the nation, not just Republicans, but even libertarians, anarchist whatever, have lived under this notion that we must somehow get the whacko leftists to like us and be our friend, so people grovel and play nice, and this just emboldens them all the more. Anyone here who thinks Rand's sucking up to minorities was going to get him even 1% more of their votes than he would have otherwise is a fool. He shredded any dignity he may have had and the left still hates him.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I am a Constitutionalist. I am unwilling to abandon every principle I have shed blood sweat and tears over the last 8 years for. I will die before I join any coalition that involves neocon liberal progressive Trump.
    Do tell how you've shed blood for anything? You're a Marine, part of the military that the NeoCons use as a plaything and you're actually going to lecture others? Too funny.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Donald Trump tweeted a campaign ad featuring Nazi uniforms on an American flag


    Maybe he is telling us something.


  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by HankRicther12 View Post
    It likely does get abused, but I generally will only say it after someone calls me that other overused word "racist". Some people just don't want to have any conversations about the realities of race, culture, and the impact of mass immigration so they just call you racist to avoid debating you, so yeah, that to me is an SJW.

    What is so ridiculous about Trump's immigration stance and who appointed you the judge and jury as far what is liberty or authoritarian?
    Sorry to have missed your question. By ridiculous immigration policy, I am talking about the belief that he can build a fence on US/Mexican border and force Mexico to pay for it.

    Also, if he wants to be serious, he would first work on cutting off welfare for illegals and one of the biggest things he can do to stem the flow of immigrants is something Rand has already proposed and that is ending birth right citizenship for non citizens. This is something most Americans even liberals would support, it is more rational and more doable that his physical fence idea and the plan to make Mexico pay for it.

  9. #128
    I find Trump amusing, and enjoy watching the success of his candidacy demonstrate what an utter farce the US national political scene is, but I wouldn't consider supporting him for one moment, and no one else from our movement should either.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
    I find Trump amusing, and enjoy watching the success of his candidacy demonstrate what an utter farce the US national political scene is, but I wouldn't consider supporting him for one moment, and no one else from our movement should either.
    'Our' movement?

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Donald Trump tweeted a campaign ad featuring Nazi uniforms on an American flag
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-deletes-tweet

    What's the point that people who dislike Trump are trying to make with this image? Are people implying that Trump himself created this image? Are they implying that he or his campaign intentionally selected an image of German soldiers to include in the montage even if they created it? Did Trump tweet it or someone in his campaign? Was it an original tweet or a retweet?

    This looks like the disinfo campaign that was waged against Ron Paul. Principles?

    Looking at the possibilities for the back-story of this image, what's more nefarious, a mistake or an intentional attempt to manipulate the minds of people and demonize Trump in a disinfo campaign?

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    Read it again. It's not a prediction. It's a proposal.

    Ron Paul was cost many votes by the propaganda impression created by the GOP/Dem Parties and the MSM that he was unelectable; the mass of the rank and file believed as they were conditioned to believe that he was a clown on the outer fringes of Wackoville. Don is no Ron, but in many ways he is better equipped to get some things done if elected to the office. And those 'things' could help reverse the agenda of the globalist crowd.

    Regularly, smart management reviews the status of any campaign and reassesses the plan and its goals. Many now question if those in the liberty movement who are more inclined to fundamentalist ideology even have a plan.

    One imagines a leather helmeted, goggle wearing world war one pilot riding his burning plane all the way down to its abrupt encounter with the unmovable Earth; refusing to use the chute strapped to his back to bailout and live to fight another day. Why does the pilot not bailout? Why is there no Plan B for the liberty movement to move liberty, prosperity and Rand forward?
    If it's a proposal, it's nuts. You think Donald Trump cares or even understands what liberty is? He is a corporatist.

    It's amusing to me to see people like you jump on whatever bandwagon the media tells you to jump on.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Sorry to have missed your question. By ridiculous immigration policy, I am talking about the belief that he can build a fence on US/Mexican border and force Mexico to pay for it.

    Also, if he wants to be serious, he would first work on cutting off welfare for illegals and one of the biggest things he can do to stem the flow of immigrants is something Rand has already proposed and that is ending birth right citizenship for non citizens. This is something most Americans even liberals would support, it is more rational and more doable that his physical fence idea and the plan to make Mexico pay for it.
    Well, no pun intended I'm a bit on the fence about the fence thing, mainly because I'm sure it will become another debacle where it will end up costing 10 times what they said it would and all kinds of fraud will emerge, but as for getting Mexico to pay for it that wouldn't be hard to do. I believe we give Mexico Foreign Aid so just cut that off and that's a start.

    I'm pretty sure Trump would agree with ending the welfare, birthright citizenship, etc, has he suggested he wouldn't do that? I'll say it again, it's not like I'm salivating over Trump or anything, I just like that he's saying the things he's saying, that's all.

  15. #133
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by HankRicther12 View Post
    . . . I'm a bit on the fence about the fence thing, mainly because I'm sure it will become another debacle where it will end up costing 10 times what they said it would and all kinds of fraud will emerge, but as for getting Mexico to pay for it that wouldn't be hard to do. . . .
    What ??? . . . no pun intended . . . that's a great line.

    I'll add that Trump has got people seriously talking about immigration . . .
    Realize, as Rand has said - the policy is already there.

    In 2013, 28% of immigration out of the 41 million new Americans -to USA - were from one country - Mehhico.
    India #2 at 5% and China #3 at 5% - Guatemala and Dominicans were in the top ten, (and Cuba immigrant/refugees as well)
    all of course are also single digit percentages.
    So this is not a problem with the other Central American nations or Latinos and not a racial thing.

    It is one nation, and if Trump remarks about charging Mexico $100,000 a head seems crass . . . so what imo. I agree with Trump,
    hate his pro-choice though.

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by HankRicther12 View Post
    Well, no pun intended I'm a bit on the fence about the fence thing, mainly because I'm sure it will become another debacle where it will end up costing 10 times what they said it would and all kinds of fraud will emerge, but as for getting Mexico to pay for it that wouldn't be hard to do. I believe we give Mexico Foreign Aid so just cut that off and that's a start.
    Btw, that is not making Mexico pay for it when you are still paying for it with US tax payers money, he can suggest seizing Mexican govt assets in the US and use it to pay for it. Also, you do know foreign aid are like bribes for XXX foreign govts to do favors for the US? remove the foreign aid and Mexico may stop cooperating with the DEA to fight the drug war or start buying its military hardware and systems from another country. Remove them and the string they are attached to are cut off. Not quite sure what the strings are but there are string attached to every penny sent south of the border, they are not charity.

    Quote Originally Posted by HankRicther12 View Post
    I'm pretty sure Trump would agree with ending the welfare, birthright citizenship, etc, has he suggested he wouldn't do that? I'll say it again, it's not like I'm salivating over Trump or anything, I just like that he's saying the things he's saying, that's all.
    That's where we differ, Trump has zero credibility with me and I have yet to see anything from him that would give him any credibility in my book. But since his whole stick is immigration, one would think that he would be well versed on the topic and be able to articulate sensible policies that would help stem the flow of illegal immigrants. Ending birth right citizenship is something most of the world has and he can use the fact that most Social democratic European countries liberal love so much have this policy to sell it to liberals. Enact this one policy and would see a noticeable dip in welfare spending especially among the border states.

    Trump has been very chummy with liberals and I see his campaign as a way to damage the republican brand amongst independents and fence sitter so no matter who is nominated at the end, they would not be able to win the general. He is not a conservative, he is not an American first guy, he is just a self promoter who cares nothing about this country. That is why it turns my stomach that they are people on this site of all places promoting the man.

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by David Sadler View Post
    Read it again. It's not a prediction. It's a proposal.

    Ron Paul was cost many votes by the propaganda impression created by the GOP/Dem Parties and the MSM that he was unelectable; the mass of the rank and file believed as they were conditioned to believe that he was a clown on the outer fringes of Wackoville. Don is no Ron, but in many ways he is better equipped to get some things done if elected to the office. And those 'things' could help reverse the agenda of the globalist crowd.

    Regularly, smart management reviews the status of any campaign and reassesses the plan and its goals. Many now question if those in the liberty movement who are more inclined to fundamentalist ideology even have a plan.

    One imagines a leather helmeted, goggle wearing world war one pilot riding his burning plane all the way down to its abrupt encounter with the unmovable Earth; refusing to use the chute strapped to his back to bailout and live to fight another day. Why does the pilot not bailout? Why is there no Plan B for the liberty movement to move liberty, prosperity and Rand forward?
    That Donald Trump is even mentioned proves my point that this is one big carnival.

    Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Donald Trump... I don't think it would be more evidently a circus if they were throwing pies.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Trump has been very chummy with liberals and I see his campaign as a way to damage the republican brand amongst independents and fence sitter so no matter who is nominated at the end, they would not be able to win the general. He is not a conservative, he is not an American first guy, he is just a self promoter who cares nothing about this country. That is why it turns my stomach that they are people on this site of all places promoting the man.
    You just don't understand, jules. Trump is "playing chess, not checkers" ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    That Donald Trump is even mentioned proves my point that this is one big carnival.

    Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Donald Trump... I don't think it would be more evidently a circus if they were throwing pies.

    "Politics is showbiz for The Ugly".
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  21. #138
    Very "Hitler" of the Donald.

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Btw, that is not making Mexico pay for it when you are still paying for it with US tax payers money, he can suggest seizing Mexican govt assets in the US and use it to pay for it. Also, you do know foreign aid are like bribes for XXX foreign govts to do favors for the US? remove the foreign aid and Mexico may stop cooperating with the DEA to fight the drug war or start buying its military hardware and systems from another country. Remove them and the string they are attached to are cut off. Not quite sure what the strings are but there are string attached to every penny sent south of the border, they are not charity.



    That's where we differ, Trump has zero credibility with me and I have yet to see anything from him that would give him any credibility in my book. But since his whole stick is immigration, one would think that he would be well versed on the topic and be able to articulate sensible policies that would help stem the flow of illegal immigrants. Ending birth right citizenship is something most of the world has and he can use the fact that most Social democratic European countries liberal love so much have this policy to sell it to liberals. Enact this one policy and would see a noticeable dip in welfare spending especially among the border states.

    Trump has been very chummy with liberals and I see his campaign as a way to damage the republican brand amongst independents and fence sitter so no matter who is nominated at the end, they would not be able to win the general. He is not a conservative, he is not an American first guy, he is just a self promoter who cares nothing about this country. That is why it turns my stomach that they are people on this site of all places promoting the man.
    I realize it's not technically making Mexico pay for it, but if you're asking me would I rather that money go towards a fence or have it continue to be given to them for bribe money?

    I also feel like so many you are buying into the MSM narrative about what it takes to win the independents, or even blue Democrats. Despite what TV wants you to think many of the people who vote Dem are not these rabid Cultural Marxists who revolve their existence around gays, abortion, and race. They are just blue collar joes who have bought into the nonsense that Dems care about the little guy, it's BS, but nevertheless the Dems have been successful at pushing that image. I would say any Rep would have much more success appealing to the working class as opposed to this ridiculous strategy of groveling to the left trying to get them to be your friend - a strategy that has failed over and over.

    Immigration is a big concern for the working class, Republicans are idiots to ignore this. I also don't see anyone here necessarily promoting Trump, we are just discussing him. Again, you seem to buy into the MSM narrative that he is somehow hurting something, I'll bet you Ted Cruz is going to latch onto the immigration thing and you'll see what happens.

  23. #140
    Don't forget our freedoms granted by the IRS.

  24. #141
    Jan2017
    Member



    Trump doesn't seem to hang out with any Founding Fathers much . . .



    .
    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-12-2015 at 09:38 PM.

  25. #142
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I'm pretty certain he's stating that the exercise of freedom is predicated upon physical security. So if you have a rampaging army terrorizing your streets, you're probably not going to maximize your freedom.
    Agreed, and I don't see how that statement is in any way controversial.

    Now, how much money we spend on national security, and the ridiculous manner in which we put that money to use is an entirely different issue.

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