Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Was 1861 a Civil War? - Was the cause slavery? Time for truth, says Walter Williams.

  1. #1

    Was 1861 a Civil War? - Was the cause slavery? Time for truth, says Walter Williams.



    Was 1861 a Civil War?

    Was the cause slavery? Time for truth, says Walter Williams.

    Historical Truth


    Walter E. Williams


    We call the war of 1861 the Civil War. But is that right? A civil war is a struggle between two or more entities trying to take over the central government. Confederate President Jefferson Davis no more sought to take over Washington, D.C., than George Washington sought to take over London in 1776.

    Both wars, those of 1776 and 1861, were wars of independence. Such a recognition does not require one to sanction the horrors of slavery. We might ask, How much of the war was about slavery?


    Was President Abraham Lincoln really for outlawing slavery? Let’s look at his words. In an 1858 letter, Lincoln said, “I have declared a thousand times, and now repeat that, in my opinion neither the General Government, nor any other power outside of the slave states, can constitutionally or rightfully interfere with slaves or slavery where it already exists.” In a Springfield, Illinois, speech, he explained: “My declarations upon this subject of Negro slavery may be misrepresented but cannot be misunderstood. I have said that I do not understand the Declaration (of Independence) to mean that all men were created equal in all respects.” Debating Sen. Stephen Douglas, Lincoln said, “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes nor of qualifying them to hold office nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races, which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.”


    What about Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation? Here are his words: “I view the matter (of slaves’ emancipation) as a practical war measure, to be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.” He also wrote: “I will also concede that emancipation would help us in Europe, and convince them that we are incited by something more than ambition.” When Lincoln first drafted the proclamation, war was going badly for the Union.


    London and Paris were considering recognizing the Confederacy and assisting it in its war against the Union.


    The Emancipation Proclamation was not a universal declaration. It specifically detailed where slaves were to be freed: only in those states “in rebellion against the United States.” Slaves remained slaves in states not in rebellion — such as Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware and Missouri. The hypocrisy of the Emancipation Proclamation came in for heavy criticism.

    Lincoln’s own secretary of state, William Seward, sarcastically said, “We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free.”


    Lincoln did articulate a view of secession that would have been heartily endorsed by the Confederacy:

    “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better. … Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can may revolutionize and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.” Lincoln expressed that view in an 1848 speech in the U.S. House of Representatives, supporting the war with Mexico and the secession of Texas.


    Why didn’t Lincoln share the same feelings about Southern secession? Following the money might help with an answer. Throughout most of our nation’s history, the only sources of federal revenue were excise taxes and tariffs. During the 1850s, tariffs amounted to 90 percent of federal revenue. Southern ports paid 75 percent of tariffs in 1859. What “responsible” politician would let that much revenue go?


    The Best of Walter E. Williams



    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/07/walter-e-williams/was-1861-a-civil-war/


    Copyright © 2015 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are provided.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 07-21-2015 at 08:58 AM.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Sounds like that crazy Tom D...

    Governments look out for special interests. This is the case today, with all the special interests (defense contractors), and it was also true with regards to the plantations and benefactors of slavery.

    The common southerner was opposed to slavery, and fought the war to stop northern occupation - not to preserve slavery. I still have the burden of going through original text to prove my belief to others (on this particular point), but overall, I believe as Walter Williams does, for the same reasons.

    Slavery was a clever political tactic, used by Lincoln, in order to prevent European support of the confederacy. The war was over economic freedom, the right to secede, and expanding the power of the federal government.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Sounds like that crazy Tom D...

    Governments look out for special interests. This is the case today, with all the special interests (defense contractors), and it was also true with regards to the plantations and benefactors of slavery.

    The common southerner was opposed to slavery, and fought the war to stop northern occupation - not to preserve slavery. I still have the burden of going through original text to prove my belief to others (on this particular point), but overall, I believe as Walter Williams does, for the same reasons.

    Slavery was a clever political tactic, used by Lincoln, in order to prevent European support of the confederacy. The war was over economic freedom, the right to secede, and expanding the power of the federal government.

    Hmm, I've always thought that Tom is/was remarkably sane......

  5. #4
    I always liked Walter. I used to love it when he filled in for Rush back in the days before I discovered the liberty movement.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    The common southerner was opposed to slavery, and fought the war to stop northern occupation - not to preserve slavery. I still have the burden of going through original text to prove my belief to others (on this particular point)
    Why would common southerner want to fight in order to oppose slavery ??? This is the BS history books are infected with. "people felt it was not right, so they decided to do something about it", LOL. Look at the recent years and see how easy it is for people to do anything without support of powerful factions. Now rewind the clock 150 years back, when getting rid of people was very easy and cheap, and tell me why would anyone care about what the common southerner wanted ?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Why would common southerner want to fight in order to oppose slavery ??? This is the BS history books are infected with. "people felt it was not right, so they decided to do something about it", LOL. Look at the recent years and see how easy it is for people to do anything without support of powerful factions. Now rewind the clock 150 years back, when getting rid of people was very easy and cheap, and tell me why would anyone care about what the common southerner wanted ?
    Because a whole potful of them died fighting for whatever it was?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Because a whole potful of them died fighting for whatever it was?
    The same can be said about our soldiers in Iraq.

  9. #8
    As I understand it, The Civil War was about slavery to the extent that the recent Tea Party protests were about government bailouts.

    The South didn't like the North in the first place, but the threat posed by the Abolitionists was the big catalyst that set the secession into motion.

    Just read the The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States. It certainly looks like abolitionism was the biggest cause.
    If you wanted some sort of Ideological purity, you'll get none of that from me.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I am View Post
    As I understand it, The Civil War was about slavery to the extent that the recent Tea Party protests were about government bailouts.

    The South didn't like the North in the first place, but the threat posed by the Abolitionists was the big catalyst that set the secession into motion.

    Just read the The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States. It certainly looks like abolitionism was the biggest cause.
    "Official" history is ALWAYS written by the winners (whether it's actually true or not).

    How many (or %) of the Southerners owned slaves?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I always liked Walter. I used to love it when he filled in for Rush back in the days before I discovered the liberty movement.
    Oh, hell, yeah! Back in the '90s, I recorded all the shows one of those times he was sitting in for Limbaugh for an entire week. I still have the cassettes.

    One of my favorite bits from that was the show where he talked about having a free market for organ transplants.

    There were ditto-fragments flying everywhere from all the exploding heads ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-21-2015 at 12:12 PM.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Oh, hell, yeah! Back in the '90s, I recorded all the shows one of those times he was sitting in for Limbaugh for an entire week. I still have the cassettes.

    One of my favorite bits from that was the show where he talked about having a free market for organ transplants.

    There were ditto-fragments flying everywhere from all the exploding heads ...
    That mental image is cracking me up, I also used to love him talking about the Christmas presents he bought his wife.
    "The Patriarch"

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    That mental image is cracking me up, I also used to love him talking about the Christmas presents he bought his wife.
    The way he brings Mrs Williams into conversations rather tangentially and sometimes completely randomly is hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  15. #13
    We call the war of 1861 the Civil War. But is that right? A civil war is a struggle between two or more entities trying to take over the central government. Confederate President Jefferson Davis no more sought to take over Washington, D.C., than George Washington sought to take over London in 1776.

    Both wars, those of 1776 and 1861, were wars of independence. Such a recognition does not require one to sanction the horrors of slavery.
    This.

  16. #14
    Bump
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  17. #15
    Is Truth Warrior/Ronin Truth/Who knows? still around?

    If so, anybody got an idea of who his current sock puppet is?

  18. #16
    I would say yes it was a civil war . It could though have been prevented by accepting independence .



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Is Truth Warrior/Ronin Truth/Who knows? still around?

    If so, anybody got an idea of who his current sock puppet is?
    I do not think he is here.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I would say yes it was a civil war . It could though have been prevented by accepting independence .
    It was not a civil war, the south was not fighting to control the federal government.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It was not a civil war, the south was not fighting to control the federal government.
    Not sure of that .

  23. #20
    Bump
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-14-2016, 06:51 AM
  2. Replies: 182
    Last Post: 08-07-2011, 09:04 PM
  3. The Civil War Wasn't About Slavery- Walter Williams
    By noztnac in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 07-19-2011, 08:39 AM
  4. Slavery and the War of 1861-1865
    By nate895 in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-01-2009, 01:47 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-20-2007, 09:03 AM

Select a tag for more discussion on that topic

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •