It's a good thing this deal will pass despite the lies the republicans, including Rand, are telling about it.
Really?Originally Posted by brandon
We shouldn't have been never been in theses stupid foreign aid thing to begin with!
He should be disappointing you. He isn't for increased domestic surveillance, intentionally droning Americans without a trial, arming Syrian Rebels allied with ISIS, attacking Syria and Iraq without a declaration of war, raiding pot dispensaries, intervening in Libya, increased gun control, foreign aid and promoting appointees who abuse civil asset forfeiture like Obama.
Rand is for none of those things because he is a libertarian.
Last edited by Krugminator2; 07-15-2015 at 07:04 PM.
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Last edited by wizardwatson; 07-16-2015 at 06:58 AM.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
I see.
You guys should just wait for teh Collinz to explain it...you're just pissing in the wind until then...after all, you don't get how it's played.
"When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law
"nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence
"I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin
Says who? Not Rand.
He may be doing the bidding of people who pretend to be "pro-Israel." But ending sanctions against Iran isn't bad for the people Israel any more than putting sanctions on Israel would somehow be good for the people of Iran.
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Last edited by wizardwatson; 07-16-2015 at 06:58 AM.
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6
Both of those things are true (although unrelated to one another). What I'm saying is that, whatever side he's picking, it's not the side of the people of Israel, or any other ordinary people in any country. He may say that he's acting in their interest. But he's not.
I agree, governments aren't representative of their people.
"When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law
"nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence
"I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin
Rand doesn't have to duplicate every aspect of the hawkish stance, just display enough of one to deflect critics during the primaries. This time next year, should he be the nominee, he will be able to "move to the center" as they say, and not have to worry about what the hawks want him to do.
Rand otherwise will be perceived as the peace candidate between now and the election, which may even be more important than his winning or not. While a Paul is in play, the war hawks cannot crank up another war out of fear the public will react by voting for the peace candidate---this is the "18 month freeze" effect Ron Paul had from mid '07 to '08, and from mid '11 to '12, and so Rand is expected to repeat this role this cycle.
-----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/
Maybe more so really - and they can hardly be called a "democracy" with such a significant Muslim population without (real) representation.
I read probably National Geographic article from a year ago talking about the city of Jerusalem . . . 35% Muslim 2% Christian . . .
but any parliament seats of the minority religions are someway squashed from actual participation.
We would ostracize any other authoritarian theocracy that does that.
Why does such an oil rich nation with so much cheap energy need nuclear power plants? Why are they willing to risk the starvation of their people under crippling sanctions for decades, just to get a couple powerplants built? Explain the logic here
By choosing to be on the side of sanctions multiple times, as a Senator, that puts blood of innocent people on Rand's hands. I've tried reasoning that he was lying about this stuff to get elected but there's a limit I won't go past. This is the type of diplomacy many of us have been pushing towards and Rand is on the wrong side of it.
...
Time will tell who is on the wrong side of history, this deal sounds too good to be true because it is. This is mission accomplished "affordable" care act all over again. We get to play the good guy of "trusting" Iran, but the cronies will make sure that there is no possible way to "trust" Iran. How would you ever trust our government to tell you about a country building WMD? The media spin machine is amazing, mark my words.
I don't think 'breaking a treaty' would hold much weight with the American people as to why we should go to war. If people can be convinced to go to war in the presence of a broken treaty, I think the people could be convinced to go to war over the actions that broke the treaty, whether the country took those actions or not.
Well, I mean, you are asking my opinion about trust, treaties, and WMDs. I would trust Iran over the USA. I have history to back up my opinion. The USA stockpiles WMDs and violates treaties more often than Iran does. I was just talking to some Indians this past weekend about treaties...
God made the Earth in 7 days, and the world's empires can end it in 70 minutes
A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
- Edward R. Murrow
...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.
How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."
Didn't you have a "Statist" tag for a long time and admit to voting for Obama in 2008? Sorry but no real RPF member cares what you think.
Last edited by devil21; 07-16-2015 at 12:39 AM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
Entirely my point, prohibition doesn't work. This deal is entirely based on a intellectually dishonest argument. The argument that we are either for this or for war is a false dilemma. This is an information war and if it was such a good deal then why do they have to sell it.
Iran may be "oil rich," but it has inadequate domestic refining capacity (e.g., as of several years ago at least, Iran had to import a third of its gasoline).
It's great abundance of oil has also resulted in horrifically inefficient & spendthrifty (and typically stupid-crappy-cronyist) energy policies related to its oil production and usage. (File under "too much of a good thing" ...)
Obstinate defiance of a power (the United States) that has serially $#@!ed Iran over for more than half a century and that has NO business dictating Iran's energy policies in the first place?
And if nothing else, a viable civilian nuclear power program would significantly reduce Iran's exposure to the vicissitudes of international "petro-politics" ...
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
IIRC, Iran has never been found to be in violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Furthermore, sixteen US intelligence agencies have conceded that they have NO evidence that Iran is working on nuclear weapons.
Nevertheless, we have been told repeatedly for many years now that Iran is only "months away" from having nukes ...
The "Iranian bomb" is a pink unicorn - and everything predicated upon it (such as sanctions or opposition to this new "Iran deal") is based on a bunch of boogity-boogity bull$#@!. The objection I have to this new deal is that no one has any business forbidding Iran from doing things like producing medical-grade isotopes. But if Iran is willing to put up with things like that in exchange for things like ending sanctions, then who the hell am I to gainsay them?
Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-16-2015 at 03:32 AM.
the USA tried to sell nuclear plants to the Shah in the 70s, so they must have seen logic in it then
Indeed. And it's not at all difficult to understand what that "logic" was.
Iran under the Shah was a client state of the American Empire. As such, it was "logical" to expect Iran to pay tribute in the form of buying stuff from us - stuff like nuclear power plants. (And after all, given that they're swimming in oil, expecting Iran to buy oil from us would have taxed the "logic" of even the most ardent of US energy-sector mercantilists).
But of course, now that Iran is no longer under a US puppet regime, they can't possibly have any legitimate use for nuclear power plants, can they? ...
Finally have a preisdent with the balls to stand up to the Israel lobby and bring in a new era of peace negotiations. Paul comes out against it and a seeming majority of this board support him. Is this bizzaro world or what?
The reason I worked so hard to make Ron Paul president is so he would do something exactly like what Obama is doing.
living in a Sanders state, I could have gotten a bunch of people enthused about Rand - but his foreign policy and perceived deepthroating of Israel has made that impossible in a general and a primary. oh well, way to blend in.
Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions 2019 MLS Cup Champions 2022 CONCACAF Champions League - and the [un]official football club of RPF
just a libertarian - no caucus
look up "atoms for peace" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atoms_for_Peace
Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions 2019 MLS Cup Champions 2022 CONCACAF Champions League - and the [un]official football club of RPF
just a libertarian - no caucus
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